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[Matt]

The Roe
Fresh roe out of a chrome doe caught out of a river or mouth gives the best roe.  I can't offer much on which species is best, but springs give large, pale orange eggs, chum- darker  orange and coho give what appeared to me to be the brightest roe by a hair (only saw one pair of coho skeins though).  Pinks had the smallest roe and its colour was medium bright orange-ish.  If you try to take roe out of a coloured up spawner, the skeins will have already fallen apart and the eggs will be all loose.

Once the fish is caught, bleed it.  Take the roe out of the fish and directly place them into a 1 gal Ziploc bag you are carrying for this purpose.  DO NOT let the eggs sit in water, as they will cloud.

Some people cut the roe into bite size bits, but they always seemed too small when I got to the river.  I found it best to butterfly the skein, then cut into card-deck I cut these down the night before fishing, carefully cutting between the folds on the egg-side of the skein.

Curing with dry cures (ie: Pro Cure, Pautzke's, home made)
The best way I found to use use dry cure was to put say 1/4 cu Pro Cure in a jar, then drop one card deck in, close the lid, shake until every nook and cranny is covered in dry cure.  Toss this in a 1 gal Ziploc and do the next one.  Once the bag is maybe a 1/3 full, seal it up leaving some air in, and put it in your garage (slightly colder than room temp).  The colder it is, the slowing the curing process due to the speed of diffusion/osmosis (wikipedia this if you don't understand).  This method uses about the right amount of cure.

What will happen is that fluid will leak out of the eggs due to osmosis, mix with the cure and form a juice.  The eggs will appear shriveled and you'll think you've ruined your roe, but after a day or two, the fluid will be reabsorbed back into the eggs.  The dye/cure will diffuse in as well and you'll be left with cured and dyed roe.  This process takes 2-4 days in your garage.  Once the eggs have re-absorbed the juice, prepare to dry them.  Cover a table top in newspaper, then cover with borax and let it sit until the skeins feel firm like a medium rare steak.  Drying took me between 10 hrs- 24hrs, depending on the humidity, temperature etc.

Once dry, put them in mason jar 3/4 full and fill all the air spaces with borax (shake to get the borax to settle into all the voids).  Label with the date, the cure and store in freezer.

Store bought cures
Pautzke's Fire Cure smells like krill, and dyes the eggs a red/ purple colour.  The more you use, the more purple it gets.  Goes easy on cure.  Similar colour to ProCure Double Re Hot.  Procure Steelie Pink gives a pale pink tinge to the eggs- the dye is not very potent.  Pautzke's gives softer roe that doesn't seem to last too long.  Procure was ok, but has no added scent.  Tillamook Blend (ProCure) looks like it gives a BC Orange colour which I want to try, but no one carries it near my house.  Pacific Angler does AFAIK.

Making your own cure
They all seem to use some variation on sugar, salt and Mule Team Borax (pale green box, laundry isle).  Knox Gelatin (near jello section in Safeway) also gives a firmness to the eggs and seems to help toughen the skeins as well.  Roe looks better to me dyed, but I never got a chance to fish un-dyed roe.  You can also use flavoured jello to colour the roe, but I found the dye to be not-so-potent.

Questions I still have
Brining ?
 
I'm about to try that tmr night with some chum roe.  Might use No Longer Sticky and Tricky Roe recipe found here: http://www.fishingwithrod.com/articles/2004/1004_01.html ... I wonder if its as tough as the Gelatin roe.   EDIT: Tried brining with the recipe on this sight.  I like my dry-cured roe better, the skein is tougher.

Roe for salmon, vs roe for steelhead ?
I hear salmon prefer chem cure (which are...?) and steellies prefer more natural cures (dyed borax?).    I've scented the roe I've set aside for steelies with anise oil (so they imitate the naturally occuring Jensen egg )

NOTE: for sturgeon, you don't need to do anything with the roe, cure-wise- just tie roe bags the size of a golf ball dry until the balls are dry to the touch and freeze in a Ziploc.  The only reason I dry a bit first is so I can separate the number I figure I need.  Sturgeon will bite on cured roe though, but I've never used it for sturg.

[bluenoser]

Matt you are up pretty late thinking about Roe...like all your observations though.

I've had alot of success with the Pautzke's Fire Cure but it sure does make for smelly fingers.

I have not frozen my roe in a jar but it seems like a good idea, I usually bag it in a sandwich sized ziplock complete with borax over night and then Vacuum pack it the next day...seems to be good a year later.

Have you ever water hardened eggs?

[dennisK]

Once the fish is caught, rip one gill raker out with a finger.  The fish will die in a matter of seconds this way.

Disagree. Bonk it first and then cut the gill.

1) way more ethical - no unnecessary pain on fish
2) heart still beats for a minute after or so, you still get the effect of bleeding
3) use a knife because gills can shred your fingers.

[Easywater]

Disagree. Bonk it first and then cut the gill.

1) way more ethical - no unnecessary pain on fish
2) heart still beats for a minute after or so, you still get the effect of bleeding
3) use a knife because gills can shred your fingers.

I agree.

Rock shampoo first - knife to the gills and keep the fish under water to keep the blood from clotting.

[gcal]

1) way more ethical - no unnecessary pain on fish
2) heart still beats for a minute after or so, you still get the effect of bleeding
3) use a knife because gills can shred your fingers.
[/quote]

Instead of a knife, I use a pair of dollar-store kitchen shears.   I find it a lot safer than using a knife, and if I cut the belly, then there is also a lot less chance of cutting into the entrails.     

[Matt]

I've never water hardened eggs.  I would think that would reduce the scent coming off by hardening the membrane. 

In humans, consciousness is lost in seconds when arteries to the head are severed.  Cutting the gills is pretty similar.  The fish calms down in <5 seconds, and is stops quivering just as fast and stoning the fish... without the inevitable glancing blows trying to beat a fish to death with a rock.  Don't tell me being bludgeoned to death is stroll in the park   When you were a teenager, perhaps you will recall standing up quickly and near losing consciousness- this is called orthostatic hypotension in case you're curious, and perhaps this will illustrate how fast consciousness is lost when blood pressure drops and blood stops being supplied to the brain.

[Dave]

Matt, give your head a shake on this one.  In my previous line of work I have personally killed thousands of salmon, 99.99999% in the line of science, the rest sport fishing. 
The salmon I sampled, allowed to bleed to death with a gill rip/cut, most certainly did not calm down within 5 seconds; in fact took much longer to die and in a very disturbing manner (these samples were for brain tissue so blows to the head were not acceptable). The vast  majority of sampling protocols always respected the fish first …. by killing it as quickly and as humanely as possible. I would hope anglers would do the same.  I do.

I have also done up roe for fifty years; trust me, you can kill your fish first, then bleed it.   It will turn out just fine.   

[itosh]

WOW!!

You were able to make a fishing related post and not mention the words Squamish, Cheakamus or Mamquam!!!

Shaking my head in disbelief!!!   

Oh ya, you scale your fish at the river?   

Shane

[Matt]

Dave, take a step back here.  Both of us are postulating that fish feel pain in the same manner we do, which I don't believe they do.  Neither of us will really know which method inflicts less pain, stress etc, so arguing about it is a bit like debating religion.  No matter how we look at it, we are killing an animal, a process that inherently brutal.  I can say for myself, that this alone doesn't bother me as I put the meat and if a doe, the roe, to good use.

If the notion of fish experiencing pain bothers you, perhaps a blood sport was the wrong choice of pursuits.

Shane, ADHD? 

[DavidD]

Question for Matt:

I found it best to butterfly the skein, then cut into card-deck

Could you explain what you mean to the above? I'm not really clear what is meant by 'card-deck'

Thnx

'newbie roe curerer' (is that a word  )

[Matt]

I just mean I like to cut the skeins up into chunks the size of card decks for the curing process.  Whole skeins are pretty big to be rolling around a ziploc bag.

[Dave]

Hmmm, I never considered working for DFO a blood sport, but I can see how some could.
Sorry but I don’t understand your argument … if you can achieve the goal of bloodless roe by killing the fish before cutting a gill, then why not do it?
Humans are an interesting animal in that they have the unique ability to show and exercise compassion and respect, especially to species not as intellectually evolved.  Whether or not pain is experienced by fish was not my point – as a human being I personally feel better killing first, cutting second.  It’s just the right thing to do.