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[chris gadsden]

Prior to the hatchery coming on line there was a bait ban for steelhead on the Chilliwack River . After the hatchery started to produce hatchery fish the bait ban was lifted. The reason for lifting the ban was to remove as many hatchery fish as possible from the system. F&W did not want hatchery fish to spawn with wild fish.
Chris, after collecting brood stock for 28 years ( 1900 + fish )  we have lost only a small number , less than ten that I would attribute to hooking mortality. We have lost a few fish after holding them for 2 or 3 months but those deaths would be caused by stress / disease problems.

Thanks for the update Buck. I would assume the majority of the 1900 brood stock steelhead would have been taken with bait. If so one could say the use of bait does not cause an alarming mortality rate.

[fishstick]

I hear a lot of mention of adult steelhead/salmon and the effects of bait on them and like many who have responded I cant think of many adult bleeders, but I have witnessessed many many cutthroat both adults and rearing fish, as well as steelhead smolts galore throat hooked and bleeding by bait, not to mention jacks and lets not forget bull trout/dollies, it most certainly does have an impact. While some people are experienced and can hook a fish effectively with bait I wager there are many more ignorant fisherman who don't and judging by the amount of people I see fishing who have absolutely no idea what damage they are doing how can you say that it wouldn't be an improvement, as far as rivers going downhill when they have bait bans in place do you honestly think that the reason for this can somehow be related to a bait ban?? I agree that the vedder isn't a great candidate but there are a lot of other rivers that would benefit, why not support an idea that is proactive and does attempt to actually reduce mortality/improve fish stocks?
just my 2 cents

[mykisscrazy]

Well said Fishstick!
Personally I would like to see a bait ban on all Streams in BC.

[jetboatjim]

why not support an idea that is proactive and does attempt to actually reduce mortality/improve fish stocks?
just my 2 cents

So this type of thinking worked on the squamish/squamish system ? yep bait ban there and numbers continue to fall....same on the island.

you have a mortality if you use a hook.

[kingpin]

the only way your hooking and killing smolts is by using  a smaller hook than you need.

[fishstick]

the bait ban has helped the bull trout and dolly populations on the squamish, as far as the whole system goes do you really think the bait ban caused any of the declines? I personally have witnessed many many mortally damaged smolt/cutties caught on larger hooks, my point isn't to say that bait bans are some sort of miracle tool, but if nobody has done literally anything else to help (as in the squamish system) has the bait ban specifically actually hurt fish stocks,or is it logging, development, overpopulation, lack of spawning habitat, siltation and the many other water quality issues, overfishing, poor ocean survival rates, decreased insect life in the rivers, increased river water temps, the real point is that there is a lot more that could be done, but won't bait or no bait, so again I say it has to be a proactive step but it certainly wont work in isolation, and nor should it be expected to, it has got to be better than nothing

[kingpin]

Banning bait is like registering firearms, it makes you look like your doing something but in reality you are not addressing the real problems.

[chris gadsden]

Banning bait is like registering firearms, it makes you look like your doing something but in reality you are not addressing the real problems.

Yep.

[mykisscrazy]

I have to disagree with you. Anything to help reduce mortality is doing something. As well it sure wouldn't cost the $$ as the gun registry.

There is a really good article in this winter's issue of Flyfishing and Tying Journal. You can go read it in your local grocery store. Deals not only with Bait Bans but also Catch and Release.

I'll lay bets within 10 years we will have a complete bait ban on our streams in BC. If we don't it will because of certain lobby groups who for some reason just don't get it.

[younggun]

we could just make the vedder a C&R river altogether for steelhead!    (but then where would all the meatfishermen go???) 

[kingpin]

I have to disagree with you. Anything to help reduce mortality is doing something. As well it sure wouldn't cost the $$ as the gun registry.

There is a really good article in this winter's issue of Flyfishing and Tying Journal. You can go read it in your local grocery store. Deals not only with Bait Bans but also Catch and Release.

I'll lay bets within 10 years we will have a complete bait ban on our streams in BC. If we don't it will because of certain lobby groups who for some reason just don't get it.

And if we do it will be because of certain lobby groups. Honestly, the only ones arguing this are those who are solely fly fisherman. you have heard facts from guys like chris and buck who have years of experience with broodstocking fish and the mortality rate of these bait caught fish is minimal. In my years of steelheading ive had a handful of deep hooked fish and only 1 bleeder. Honestly its a bigger problem with guys over playing steelhead or not using sufficient rod

[younggun]

i 2nd KP's opinion

[mykisscrazy]

And if we do it will be because of certain lobby groups. Honestly, the only ones arguing this are those who are solely fly fisherman. you have heard facts from guys like chris and buck who have years of experience with broodstocking fish and the mortality rate of these bait caught fish is minimal. In my years of steelheading ive had a handful of deep hooked fish and only 1 bleeder. Honestly its a bigger problem with guys over playing steelhead or not using sufficient rod

I am not solely a flyfisherman, just someone who does not use bait.
Chris and Buck as you said have years of experience - They are not the average fishermen.
In this day of age, with the low returns of most of our Pacific Salmonids,(for a lot of reasons that we do not need to go into here) a handful of deep hooked fish and bleeders could be too many.

[wizard]

my two cents...well I've started to fish for steelhead on the chilliwack this year for the first time and from what I see this river has problems like any other river in the lower mainland.  I may not be a veteran of this river but how is the enforcement by C.O.'s?  To me a system like the chilliwack/ vedder should have full time or near fulltime enforcement officers, especially during high usage times.  I have found ALOT of rigs on shore with BARBED hooks.  Nearly half the rigs I've found have barbs.  That is a big problem. Maybe people would think twice about fishing illegally if they thought they would be checked by fisheries officers.  that alone would make a huge difference.  Barbed hooks is something I think is causing alot more problems then people think.  Even if a fish is hooked deep with a barbless hook and some care, they will still be fine...
I know this topic was about baits and catch and release, but the thing IMO that would make the biggest impact would be regular enforcement...not just on the vedder but all rivers.

[jetboatjim]

I am not solely a flyfisherman, just someone who does not use bait.
Chris and Buck as you said have years of experience - They are not the average fishermen.
In this day of age, with the low returns of most of our Pacific Salmonids,(for a lot of reasons that we do not need to go into here) a handful of deep hooked fish and bleeders could be too many.

I flyfish as much as I gearfish, I have more than enough steelhead/salmon to my name and have had equal bleeders on bait and flies.
the only way to reduce mortality is close the river.

kinda funny every year a few "concerned" people voice thier opinions on conservation , yet they dont get involved or continue to fish on systems with less the 100 fish....I dunno ? whats worse?