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[Geff_t]

 We need to put some faith in the regulatory agencies and their abilities and interest in doing the proper studies and regulating this industry.  

 Wow I can not believe you actually typed this. You want people to put faith in an agency that constantly cuts staff to the point where it is impossible for them to regulate anything. An agency that says it is ok to remove gravel from a river for flood control when it is proven that it will not do anything. An agency that says this is green power but even California can not buy the power from it because they say it is not green power ( and they buy more power from us then anyone). An agency that allows water to be pumped out of our rivers  at an alarming rate when rivers are at their lowest and killing fish. How can anyone put faith in that.

[Big Sinker]

An agency that doesn't limit leader lengths...  good point.

[chris gadsden]

An agency that doesn't limit leader lengths...  good point.

We don't discuss this subject at this time of year.

[Dave]

C'mon guys, hear Big Sinker out.  We may all learn something from this - understand, these IPP'S will happen and knowledge regarding them is a good thing.  Hey BS (sorry about that!) I'm with Chris in welcoming you to this forum but be prepared to catch a lot of s**t.    Which project are you involved with?  What is your background?

[Big Sinker]

We don't discuss this subject at this time of year.

Gee sorry Chris...Did I strike a nerve there?   

As much as I'd like to say who I work for and where I'm working, I think I will stay anonymous for a while at least.  With the political microscope directly over our heads I think it may be a bad career move if you know what I mean.

Dave, thanks for the backup... I was thinking I may have fallen into a shark tank here!!!

[patagonia]

The real insanity of the situation in this- the power is not needed for BC it is being SOLD to the USA... we have enough energy to power this province with existing dams and hydro sources... these new projects are exploiting our resources for sale to the US...

[purple monster]

First of all, I'm a monster, not a shark.   I love to catch one, except the dog shark.   Reading this post, and watching the video, reminded me of that song. PARADISE, by John Prine, or is it Steve Goodman?  I like it all the way up to this part;


    D   G   D
Then the    coal company came with the    world's largest    shovel
    D   A   D
And they    tortured the timber and    stripped all the    land
    D   G   D
Well, they    dug for their coal till the    land was for-   saken
    D   A   D
Then they    wrote it all down as the    progress of    man.


remember the traffic jamb. We all need to go somewhere too.  We all know we need the electricity.  What most of us don't like is the way they go and get it, and then how they provide it to us, making sure their needs are met as well. 

[hammer]

I am happy to have generated the concern and, hopefully, some sharing of ideas and politcal opinions. I'm not ready to dismiss "Run of the River" projects as a potential source of energy (that doesn't require burning something or fission). I think they need to be done with extreme caution, especially on local system (perhaps not at all). I say "local" systems because of tremendous value these contribute both culturally and economically. For example, love it or hate it, the Chilliwack River and her fish generate a huge amount of revenue, simply by having fish. Any stream or trib. that has a wild stock of steelhead and is withing 150 kilometer of Vancouver is of tremendous value. My main concerns are summed up in the following points (any enlightenment or commentary would be great).

-As far as having faith in the regulatory bodies, who are they for these projects? We've heard the stories of environmental assessments being stategically done after fry have outmigrated and the tributary is designated "non fish-bearing" (maybe no assessment done at all).
-How much foreign and private ownership is there?  Particularly with water and licensing rights?
-What avenues for public input are there?
-Finally, how did we do on Brohm Creek?                                                      Thanks,                 Hammer
 

   

[patagonia]

Hey Hammer... watch that video link that I provided... it answers all your questions.

[chris gadsden]

For those that may have missed the editorial on this subject.

http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2009/08/10/PrivatePower/

[Nicole]

Take a look at this image:



See the area named "intake location"? Now look for the words above it that say "approximate penstock route"

The area in between these two points is a summer run steelhead over wintering ground, and soon to be re-directed into a pipe, for 9 km down to almost the point where the river enters telegraph cove.

Here is an area right in between these two points:



Guess what those are in the picture? Take a long hard look past your wallet and you might see.

And what does their environmental assessment suggest? Build a fish ladder so the steelhead can get over the dam weir.

How do you explain this? Above a waterfall my ***!

Lies, lies, greenwashing, more lies. All for a freaking buck.

 
Nicole

Let's see... we can take some of the water out of the river (above a waterfall so there are no fish), run it through a pipe and make electricity, then put the water back in that same river.  You are right, not green at all.  Perhaps my next job can be building a natural gas or coal burning power plant.

[Coho Cody]

Well well well. Look what Nicole found. Care to explain yourself Big Sinker?

[Rodney]

While majority of the participants may disagree with what Big Sinker has to say, I expect all to present their opinions in the discussion respectfully. So far he has done so, you should do the same in return if your objective is to see your point of view.

[Bavarian Raven]

i guess its time to throw my 2 cents in, being as i am a student of environmental studies and all

the theory behind these "run of the river" projects is decent. the idea to take a small portion of water from a river, generate electricity with it, and then return it back to the river. sounds (and is) a great idea, if done in such a way as to not harm the river. now the problem is, us humans are a greedy lot. we want the most bang for our buck, and dont (well most of us anyway) give a damn what it takes or does to our surrounding, so long as we make some profit.

now in my studies i have read some of these 'reports' and 'ecological assessments' that have been done on some of these rivers before dams and other developments have taken place. some of them were well done (when it seemed for the most part, they were done by either local-ish departments or by groups who actually care about the environment). whereas most of the time, the company just wants to develope asap, and the ecological impact surveys are glossed over. and in the end, no one really knows the damage being done, and the companies could care less, for they are making big bucks.

and the problem is, like with that valley shown in the video (which i suddenly cannot remember the name of), once the damage is done. it is done "forever" (in a human point of view). and not only is the river altered, but everything depending on the river and its fish, from green rock slimes up to bears and even the forests benefit from strong fish returns (read up about the impact of salmon on trees and their growth rates).

anyways... what gets me the most is, how the community said NO to the project but the government basically said, too bad so sad, we're gona do it anywhere. its for the best interest of everyone (aka, their own pockets) lol, so much for democracy... 

anyways rant over... >.>

[Coho Cody]

What is the definition of speak your opinion respectfully in this particular topic? It is quite clear a lot of us in this topic strongly disagree with Big Sinker's thoughts. Sorry if my deleted post was "disrespectful", but Big Sinker can't tell us it is anywhere near a green project. What is going on with OUR rivers is nothing but a disgrace. I have yet to see proof of a well run "Run of the River Project." Until then, my opinion is never going to change, because puting one of these projects on any river system surely causes damage one way or another, and absolutely screws with it's ecosystem.

Quote : Big Sinker

"We need to put some faith in the regulatory agencies and their abilities and interest in doing the proper studies and regulating this industry."

By looks of it, it has never happened. A prime example is the Ashlu. How can we put any faith in the regulatory agencies???