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Author Topic: Fight The HST!  (Read 172889 times)

Bavarian Raven

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #240 on: May 08, 2010, 09:04:48 PM »

but what about the businesses that provide services that are subject to the HST. those consumers will have to pay more, will they not?
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alwaysfishn

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #241 on: May 08, 2010, 09:48:15 PM »

but what about the businesses that provide services that are subject to the HST. those consumers will have to pay more, will they not?

Take a furniture manufacturer. Before HST when they spend $100,000 on new equipment it will cost them an extra $7000 for PST plus $5000 for GST. They can claim back the $5000 GST, however the $7000 PST cannot be claimed back so the total outlay is $107,000.

After HST it will cost them a total of $12000 for HST however all of that can be claimed back. Total outlay is $100,000.

Because the equipment is more expensive before HST, the business needs to charge more for the furniture than they will need to charge after HST.

When the consumer buys furniture today they pay PST + GST = 12%. After HST it will still cost the consumer 12%, but on a lower base price.
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Novabonker

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #242 on: May 09, 2010, 06:05:53 AM »

The farmer will make more money(less taxes) so he'll have the money to expand his business and in the process will need more labour.

Labor pays taxes .....  making up the shortfall.    8)

LOL - you're grasping at straws AF.Not that the fairy tale of Reaganomics hasn't been proven to be a codswallop many times , at least you didn't march out the albatross on lower prices to the consumer...... ::) ::)

Let's make it simple - Government loses revenue from business,but makes up for lost revenue by adding to consumers. Sugar coat this any way you like, that's the fact.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 09:32:30 AM by Novabonker »
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alwaysfishn

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #243 on: May 10, 2010, 10:19:47 AM »

Three reasons HST is a great idea for B.C.
 
 
By Elisabeth Gugl and Stephen Hume, Vancouver Sun May 7, 2010
 
Bill Vander Zalm's movement to take back democracy by repealing the harmonized sales tax is picking up steam. By exploiting the provincial government's fumbling of the HST, the former British Columbia premier has taken a page out of Sarah Palin's populist playbook. His critics say the anti-HST movement is a Trojan horse. Inside the horse aren't Greeks waiting to conquer Troy, but Vander Zalm himself, grinning, waiting to return to electoral politics.

A storm is brewing around the HST. But the HST will be good for B.C. and consumers. The revenue from taxes helps pay for our quality of life and the services we enjoy. But what is it about consumption taxes that people hate so much? Maybe it's because they are reminded of the tax every time they buy something. That's why cutting consumption taxes makes for such good politics, but very bad economics.

The HST combines the five-per-cent federal tax, the goods and services tax, and the seven per cent provincial tax to make a combined 12 per cent tax. The HST applies the same method of tax collection as the GST and taxes the same goods -- with a few exceptions.

Here are three reasons why adopting the HST is a good idea:

. If you want a consumption tax, make it a value-added tax like the HST. Both the PST and the HST are taxes that are supposed to tax consumer goods but not business inputs. However, the PST is terrible at making this distinction. The HST would correct this. It accomplishes this by being a value added tax; when a firm sells its product, it charges 12-per-cent tax on the sale price but can claim a credit for the taxes it already paid on the purchases of the materials necessary to produce its product. As such, there is no need to define categories of goods as either consumption goods or business inputs; through the invoice-credit system, the use of a particular product is clearly identified. This way, a restaurant owner purchasing tables and chairs for the restaurant would not pay the tax, but if the restaurant owner purchased the same products to furnish his or her home, he or she would pay the tax.

. The HST will broaden the tax base and lower tax inefficiencies. On average, consumers will be better off under the HST than the PST. The HST streamlines the way B.C. collects its taxes and will save the province and firms money through lower accounting and administrative costs. Second, because the HST taxes consumers on a broader range of goods than the PST and exempts firms from paying taxes on their inputs, goods are produced more efficiently. When in 1991 the federal government replaced the federal sales tax (also known under its original name as the manufacturers' sales tax) with the revenue-neutral GST, gross domestic product gains attributed to the tax reform were estimated to be at least $1.9 billion. Consumers may feel upset because under the HST they would pay a 12-per-cent tax rate on more goods than under the current system of GST/PST. But what they should also consider is that sales prices under the HST and PST would not be the same, because many firms will be able to produce at lower cost under the HST. These savings are passed on to consumers driving down sale prices.

. The HST will boost firms' investment and this will help secure jobs. It's important to take into account the impact the HST will have on the level of production. As firms pay less to produce their products and services, they will invest more in equipment and machinery. University of Toronto economist Michael Smart estimated that annual machinery and equipment investment rose 12.1 per cent above the trend level in the Atlantic provinces when they harmonized their sales taxes with the GST in the 1990s. (Quebec had the HST right from the start when the GST was introduced in 1990; Newfoundland and Labrador, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick harmonized their sales taxes with the GST in 1997). As of July, Ontario also will have an HST, and we are competing with Ontario for jobs.

Will the HST be good for B.C.? It's pretty clear that it will, no matter what your politics.

Elisabeth Gugl and Stephen E. Hume are faculty members in the economics department at the University of Victoria.

© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Three+reasons+great+idea/2997877/story.html#ixzz0nY1bXYet
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holmes

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #244 on: May 10, 2010, 11:35:37 AM »

that furniture sure isnt made out of wood cause we export the raw logs so some other country can manufacture it just for us to buy it back...lmao...what a joke...holmes*
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CameronT120

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #245 on: May 10, 2010, 11:45:06 AM »

that furniture sure isnt made out of wood cause we export the raw logs so some other country can manufacture it just for us to buy it back...lmao...what a joke...holmes*

That's a topic for a completely different discussion.  Not to mention a little bit false.  I know of several furniture makers who use raw materials harvested from right here in BC.  None of it is mass produced though, so maybe they don't count.
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Novabonker

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #246 on: May 10, 2010, 06:05:19 PM »

ROLLING, ROLLING, ROLLING is right Chris - 400,000 signatures and counting. Isn't democracy a wonderful thing?


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alwaysfishn

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #247 on: May 10, 2010, 08:53:30 PM »

Part of Vanderzalm's canned speech talks about how the HST was repealed in Saskatchewan a couple years after it was implemented.....
"Saskatchewan implemented the HST in 1989 and then got rid of it after two years, bringing back its own provincial sales tax instead, Vander Zalm said."

He doesn't have the dates right but who cares when you're rolling rolling rolling.  ::)        So he continues to preach that the HST is not a done deal, that it can be repealed in BC as well....

Here's what actually happened in Saskatchewan.....

Just weeks after the GST took effect nationally on Jan. 1, 1991, the then Saskatchewan government of Premier Grant Devine announced it would harmonize the province's seven-per-cent sales tax with the seven-percent federal levy. On sweeping to power on Oct. 21, 1991, the New Democratic Party under new premier Roy Romanow lost little time consigning the harmonization to the ash heap of provincial history, along with Devine and his Conservatives.

NDP finance minister Ed Tchorzewski "estimated" the savings to provincial taxpayers from repeal at $72 million for the remainder of the budget year and $140 million over a full year. Relief for Saskatchewan taxpayers was short-lived, however. The following spring Tchorzewski launched a better than $200-million tax grab of his own, boosting income, tobacco and fuel taxes and -- irony of ironies-- boosting the restored provincial sales tax by a full point to eight per cent.  

Read more:  http://www.vancouversun.com/news/opponents+take+heart+from+Saskatchewan+example/2983922/story.html

But I'm sure that would never happen here......  ;D
« Last Edit: May 10, 2010, 09:02:42 PM by alwaysfishn »
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chris gadsden

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #248 on: May 10, 2010, 10:00:00 PM »

ROLLING, ROLLING, ROLLING is right Chris - 400,000 signatures and counting. Isn't democracy a wonderful thing?



Love it. ;D

Novabonker

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #249 on: May 11, 2010, 08:18:42 AM »

Part of Vanderzalm's canned speech talks about how the HST was repealed in Saskatchewan a couple years after it was implemented.....
"Saskatchewan implemented the HST in 1989 and then got rid of it after two years, bringing back its own provincial sales tax instead, Vander Zalm said."

He doesn't have the dates right but who cares when you're rolling rolling rolling.  ::)        So he continues to preach that the HST is not a done deal, that it can be repealed in BC as well....

Here's what actually happened in Saskatchewan.....

Just weeks after the GST took effect nationally on Jan. 1, 1991, the then Saskatchewan government of Premier Grant Devine announced it would harmonize the province's seven-per-cent sales tax with the seven-percent federal levy. On sweeping to power on Oct. 21, 1991, the New Democratic Party under new premier Roy Romanow lost little time consigning the harmonization to the ash heap of provincial history, along with Devine and his Conservatives.

NDP finance minister Ed Tchorzewski "estimated" the savings to provincial taxpayers from repeal at $72 million for the remainder of the budget year and $140 million over a full year. Relief for Saskatchewan taxpayers was short-lived, however. The following spring Tchorzewski launched a better than $200-million tax grab of his own, boosting income, tobacco and fuel taxes and -- irony of ironies-- boosting the restored provincial sales tax by a full point to eight per cent.  

Read more:  http://www.vancouversun.com/news/opponents+take+heart+from+Saskatchewan+example/2983922/story.html

But I'm sure that would never happen here......  ;D

Getting nervous? What is it about grassroots democracy that you find offensive? ??? ??? ???
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alwaysfishn

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #250 on: May 11, 2010, 08:37:13 AM »

Getting nervous? What is it about grassroots democracy that you find offensive? ??? ??? ???

I'm not nervous because the petition has no bite.

All it is doing is providing a means for a few politicians like Bill to gain some visibility so that they can run in the next election. As illustrated in Saskatchewan, the NDP came in promising to eliminate the HST in order to save the public $140 million and once elected increased the taxes by $200 million. In the process they kept their business less competitive with their next door neighbors. That's what I find offensive..
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yamadirt 426

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #251 on: May 11, 2010, 09:14:04 AM »

I could do with a little less growth in our province  ;D Bye Bye Libs 
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Novabonker

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #252 on: May 11, 2010, 11:26:20 AM »

In the process they kept their business less competitive with their next door neighbors. That's what I find offensive..



I'm willing to bet Alberta based business with no HST will support that theory as well. Tell me what the HST is going to do to any business near the border? That's so full of holes all I can do is grimace for anyone running a business anywhere within a few hundred miles of the provincial boundaries.
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alwaysfishn

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #253 on: May 11, 2010, 12:10:16 PM »


I'm willing to bet Alberta based business with no HST will support that theory as well. Tell me what the HST is going to do to any business near the border? That's so full of holes all I can do is grimace for anyone running a business anywhere within a few hundred miles of the provincial boundaries.

It will allow the BC business to be on a level playing field  with the Alberta business. Under HST the cost of the BC products won't include PST just like in Alberta.

As far as the consumer is concerned there is no difference pre or post HST....

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Novabonker

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #254 on: May 11, 2010, 12:21:20 PM »

LOL -You miss the painfully obvious- the consumer will travel across the border to avoid a 13% premium on purchases. Any business in that sector is being tossed to the wolves. ::)
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