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[alwaysfishn]

There goes your credibility

I've always stayed in the closet with that bit of info..... 

But I figured with the popularity of Chris and his anti-HST campaign I could let that out and maybe gain some acceptance from the anti-HST'ers! 

[Fish Assassin]

Maybe you and Chris can go fishing to discuss the HST further while local fans watch the Canucks in the playoffs

[Novabonker]

You see AF, a few of us will remember the introduction of the GST. We were told that everything would be cheaper, our paths littered with flower petals and Canada would be magically transformed into a state of Nirvana. The memory of His Royal Highness, King Mulroney flinging fertilizer all over the peasants is still fresh in my mind! It still brings me moments of delusional ecstasy. I can help you snap out of the same symptoms, but it won't be easy. First you have to focus really hard on reality.......  

[alwaysfishn]

You see AF, a few of us will remember the introduction of the GST. We were told that everything would be cheaper, our paths littered with flower petals and Canada would be magically transformed into a state of Nirvana. The memory of His Royal Highness, King Mulroney flinging fertilizer all over the peasants is still fresh in my mind! It still brings me moments of delusional ecstasy.   I can help you snap out of the same symptoms, but it won't be easy. First you have to focus really hard on reality.......  

Your problem Novabonker is that you are still a dreamer....   You still think that politicians will tell you the truth....and win elections.    You and the anti-HST'ers probably experience "moments of delusional ecstasy" when you dream about defeating the HST...  

The last politician I remember telling the truth was Joe Clark when he campaigned that gas would need to go to at least 25 cents a litre because the government needed the revenue. Trudeau, campaigned that this is ridiculous and if we elected him he would never raise gas to 25 cents a liter. He won the election and 6 months later gas prices were higher than the 25 cents Joe Clark had predicted.

That's why the HST should be judged on it's merits rather than on the person, or party that is introducing it. Be more concerned about how much the HST increases over future years whether it's the socialists or the liberals/conservatives running the province. There are some countries that have the VAT (which is the equivalent of the HST) and their VAT rate is as high as 25%.

[wizard]

I heard hst could conceivably cost a B.C. family of four extra 2100 bucks a year.  Can anyone verify this?

[alwaysfishn]

I heard hst could conceivably cost a B.C. family of four extra 2100 bucks a year.  Can anyone verify this?

The government says it will be revenue neutral. Meaning that with the HST credits they provide and the PST savings that the businesses pass on, that it won't cost you more than you are paying under the PST/GST system.

I believe it will cost us something extra.....        It depends how much a family of four spends. I guarantee it will cost a family that spends $100,000 per year at least twice as much as a family of four that spends $50,000 a year.  

I'm not an expert on this, but I hear the anti - HST group is.......  

[Novabonker]

You know AF, if you're content to sit on a well marbled duff and let the corrupt trash we call leaders (READ BALD ACED LIARS) run the country and province, so be it, but you lose credibility when it comes to belittling the efforts of those of us who want to change the status quo. Whether the initiative succeeds or fails, it's about a group of people that are fed up with bull$hitters and con men getting away with doing what THEY please, lie as they wish, and not represent the will of the constituents that sent them there. You may want to look up the meaning of democracy as you seem to be unable to grasp what this is all about.
The Anti HST group see a gaping deficit in honesty within the Liberals and want to hold their feet to the fire. What do you see wrong with that?

Let's all lie down an accept whatever lies are foisted on us or stand up and be counted. My moral fiber says take the second choice.

[CameronT120]

Okay, so it's not so much about the HST as it is about the politicians.  Gotcha.

[milo]

Novabonker, I am with you.
Just like you, I will do my part and sign the petition, and try to educate as many people as I can to do the same.
I happen to hail from a country with an HST of 23%, and I know what you are talking about.

If there is a constitutional means to abort the HST before it is implemented, by all means, it is our duty as citizens to do what we can to help. The petition is a unique and democratic means for the population to stand up and say ENOUGH!
The HST never has and never will benefit the masses, it only serves those who are already wealthy to become even wealthier (corporations, industrialists, big businesses), by passing the buck to the already dwindling middle class.

In addition, the HST is a federal tax which further undermines our Province's autonomy. Some of you might not give a rat's behind about it, but I sure do. I've seen how federal interference screwed up great Regional initiatives. Examples abound around the world. Educate yourselves. There is NOTHING GOOD in the HST for us, the working stiffs and average Joes.

[Fish Assassin]

Anybody organizing a petition for our MP's whose pension increased bt 10% ?

[chris gadsden]

The government says it will be revenue neutral. Meaning that with the HST credits they provide and the PST savings that the businesses pass on, that it won't cost you more than you are paying under the PST/GST system.

I believe it will cost us something extra.....        It depends how much a family of four spends. I guarantee it will cost a family that spends $100,000 per year at least twice as much as a family of four that spends $50,000 a year.  

I'm not an expert on this, but I hear the anti - HST group is.......  

A question, if it is to be revenue neutral why are they bringing it in, could they not leave it as it is?

The Lib's are bringing it an attempt to raise billions of dollars to get them out of the financial hole they have dug our Province in. That is why they have added so many new products and services that will now be taxed. We have to pay for the bad decisions they have made the last few years.

They always boast of how we have the lowest tax rate in Canada which they used to help get them elected 3 times. This was mis management and now we are having to make up for this lost revenue.

They have fooled many of us three times including me for 8 years when I was on the local Liberal Riding Association but their rein is now on its last legs, time to give another party a chance.  A defeat of Campbell and his band of merry men should show politicians that arrogance and false hoods do not go over with British Columbians. They have lost the trust on so many issues and no longer allow serious input on people's concerns. If you want to see some examples go to http://thecanadian.org/k2

As the saying goes it is politicans themselves that cause their own demise.

[alwaysfishn]

The Anti HST group see a gaping deficit in honesty within the Liberals and want to hold their feet to the fire. What do you see wrong with that?

We could debate the honesty of politicians issue for a long time....   If politicians were "honest" and said they needed to raise taxes in order to balance the budget most people wouldn't vote for them. That's our contribution to creating the kind of politicians we have now.

As a company shareholder I expect the CEO to do whatever is necessary in order to ensure my investment is safe and it grows. As a citizen I expect the premier or PM to do whatever they need to do in order to make sure this country is run on a balanced budget even if it means doing something that they campaigned that they wouldn't do...

I think I do comprehend democracy, that's why I'm representing the pro HST minority. 

[alwaysfishn]

A question, if it is to be revenue neutral why are they bringing it in, could they not leave it as it is?

The Lib's are bringing it an attempt to raise billions of dollars to get them out of the financial hole they have dug our Province in.

The HST is a simpler tax that costs less to collect. It gets passed to the end user without inflating the price along the way(see home depot 2x4's graphic). This makes the products that we manufacture in BC competitive with provinces that have no PST(Alberta) or provinces that have adopted the HST. It also makes our products more competitive when we sell them internationally. The PST is often a tax on a tax while the HST is a single tax, paid once by the end consumer.

Supposing they left it as PST, what's to stop them from increasing the PST "to get them out of the financial hole they have dug our Province in"?. The problem is every time they increase the PST it makes our BC manufactured products less competitive and we lose sales, BC jobs and tax revenue.

[Novabonker]

We could debate the honesty of politicians issue for a long time....   If politicians were "honest" and said they needed to raise taxes in order to balance the budget most people wouldn't vote for them. That's our contribution to creating the kind of politicians we have now.


So we get off our a$$ and demand better. I have no time for being conned.

As a company shareholder I expect the CEO to do whatever is necessary in order to ensure my investment is safe and it grows. As a citizen I expect the premier or PM to do whatever they need to do in order to make sure this country is run on a balanced budget even if it means doing something that they campaigned that they wouldn't do...

I'm not content with liars running amok, nor should any Canadian, and acceptance of that kind of behavior by political hacks highlights how apathetic our society has become. We deserve and should demand better.

I think I do comprehend democracy, that's why I'm representing the pro HST minority.  

Tough sledding trying to sell that, huh?  

[chris gadsden]

The PST is often a tax on a tax while the HST is a single tax, paid once by the end consumer.

/quote] I guess that means us!!!