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[Novabonker]

Unfortunately because of the Liberals fumbled introduction of the HST the people are speaking but they are speaking from ignorance and misinformation.

Ah yes- 80% under the "Too stupid to get it" file, the rest in the enlightened and sophisticated. First off, you don't do your side any favours by calling anyone who isn't on board an ignoramus. Believe me - we get it. More tax for the citizen, all given to placate the business who bought and paid for this government. The more they get, the more they want and the shrill whining is like the spoiled child at the supermarket check out.
- Will Mr. and Mrs. Piffleton be paying more taxes?
- Will business pay less?
What part of the equation is difficult to understand? The citizens are pizzed off with covering business profits with tax dollars. I wish I had the spare time to research all of the tax breaks given to the business side since Campbell inc. came to power, but unlike Comrade Glog's assertion that I have nothing better to do than play on a keyboard all day , I do work and work darn hard.
Keep trying- it isn't working, but I admire your stick to it attitude.

One small but salient point- the "trickle down effect" from the HST was put to pasture by the HST authors this week with the increased profits from liquor sales being kept by the Campbellites. Hypocrisy at it's finest.

[Novabonker]

Memory Lane.....
    * It’s time for a New Era of Accountability. Our plan will deliver real transparent, accountable government.

    * Establish workable initiative legislation, to make it feasible for British Columbians to call for a referendum on issues of province-wide concern that fall within the provincial government’s jurisdiction.

    * Establish workable recall legislation, to make it easier for citizens to hold MLAs accountable.

    * Give all MLAs and citizens a better voice in government through active legislative committees.

    * Hold open Cabinet meetings at least once a month that are televised and broadcast live on the Internet.

    * Give all government MLAs a meaningful new role in policy development and service planning through a new system of Cabinet decision-making.

    * Introduce free votes in the Legislature, to allow all MLAs to vote freely on behalf of their constituents on all matters not specifically identified as a vote of confidence.

    * Not sell or privatize BC Rail.

    * Vigorously defend the Crown's ownership of provincial land and resources.

    * Protect BC Hydro and all of core assets, including dams, reservoirs and power lines under public ownership.

    * Restore an independent BC Utilities Commission, to re-regulate BC Hydro’s electricity rates.

    * Pass a Living Rivers Act to protect and improve BC’s river systems with scientifically-based standards for watershed management, enhancements to fish habitat, and a 10-year program to correct past damage.

    * Push for provincial control over the management and revenues of BC’s offshore fisheries, to improve fisheries management and protect fishery jobs.

    * Adopt a scientifically-based, principled approach to environmental management that ensures sustainability, accountability and responsibility.

    * You shouldn’t have to pay higher than necessary electricity or auto insurance rates, because government wants to play politics with BC Hydro or ICBC.

    * Give school boards multi-year funding envelopes, to improve long-term education planning and budgeting.

    * Ensure that music, arts and physical education curriculums are fully funded in BC’s public schools.

    * Hold the line on court fees, to ensure that everyone has affordable access to our justice system.

    * Establish regional transportation authorities that are accountable to local taxpayers and give local communities more control over their transportation needs and planning.

    * Require taxpayer approval by regional referendums prior to authorization of any new type of TransLink tax or levy.

    * Outlaw “offloading” of provincial government costs onto the backs of local property taxpayers.

    * Restore open tendering on government contracts to allow fair competition for businesses and provide better value to taxpayers.

    * Implement a flexible, innovative program to increase the supply of affordable housing.


Fast forward...........How many of those whoppers became fact?

[chris gadsden]

Hello Chris

The Numbers are in! 15% reached in all ridings!

Our week 10 press release is available on our website. Click on the following link to read Bill's Progress report. http://fighthst.com/press-release-fight-hst-petition-breaks-15-threshold-in-all-85-ridings/

We have also posted the current totals for every riding at the following link: http://fighthst.com/numbers/.

If you have problems with the links, just go to our www.fighthst.com website for the information.

[Novabonker]

Hello Chris

The Numbers are in! 15% reached in all ridings!

Our week 10 press release is available on our website. Click on the following link to read Bill's Progress report. http://fighthst.com/press-release-fight-hst-petition-breaks-15-threshold-in-all-85-ridings/

We have also posted the current totals for every riding at the following link: http://fighthst.com/numbers/.

If you have problems with the links, just go to our www.fighthst.com website for the information.

[chris gadsden]

I got our Telus phone bill today, dated June 9, 2011 and as the bill ran from June 9 to July 8 and the charges included PST .26 , GST 1.84  and Yippee my first HST charge of 1.61. Looks like a double charge some how but maybe it is because I worked on the ant HST petition.

[chris gadsden]

Phoned Telus and as I thought the bill was pro rated so we pay the HST for the 8 days in July.

[alwaysfishn]

Today we come not to bury Gordon Campbell, but to praise him. Somebody has to.  http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/commentary/derek-decloet/in-bcs-hst-debate-passion-trumps-common-sense/article1610126/

Mr. Campbell has been British Columbia’s Premier for the past nine years. That in itself is an achievement, given the track record of those who’ve held the office. There was Glen Clark (resigned amid a criminal investigation, 1999), and before him Mike Harcourt (resigned amid a criminal investigation that involved his party, 1996), and before him Bill Vander Zalm (resigned because of a conflict-of-interest probe that led to criminal charges, 1991).Yet Mr. Campbell is now treated as the biggest scoundrel of them all.

His Liberal Party’s standing is as far underwater as BP’s leaky Macondo well and his personal popularity is roughly equal to that of Tony Hayward at a Louisiana shrimpers’ convention. Last week, one of his cabinet ministers resigned in protest and Mr. Vander Zalm, of all people, is now throwing mud in the Premier’s direction, calling him an “elected dictator.”

And for what?

Because Mr. Campbell dared to do the right thing. His government’s decision to scrap B.C.’s antiquated provincial sales tax in favour of one that’s harmonized with the federal sales tax may have turned the Premier into the pariah-of-the-moment. It’s also one of the best things he has done since taking office. The HST’s critics, an alliance of knee-jerk populists, political opportunists and the financially clueless, ought to go jump in the Georgia Strait. Better yet, they should take a basic economics course.

Rarely has a good idea been so misunderstood. Rarely have the correct intentions – to make B.C. a more competitive place, to make it cheaper to invest, to make jobs – been so twisted into something else by people who don’t know what they’re talking about. But it does require some explanation, so we’ll walk through it very slowly, for the benefit of Mr. Vander Zalm and Novabonker.   

Right now in B.C. the consumer is charged two taxes on most items: there’s a 5 per cent federal goods and services tax plus a provincial sales tax of 7 per cent. On July 1, that will change to a single, harmonized tax of 12 per cent. The rub, of course, is all sorts of items that are now exempt from the provincial tax will have the HST applied to them. The tax on a massage, for instance, will rise to 12 per cent from 5; same with a funeral or a haircut or a lawyer’s fee. (A similar process will take place in Ontario – except at a 13-per-cent rate – to replace the current five-plus-eight.)

This is why the HST gets a rap as just another effort by politicians to reach into the consumer’s pocket. In fact, it’s the current provincial sales tax, both in B.C. and Ontario, that qualifies as a grubby tax grab. Those taxes apply not just at the retail cash register, but to things that companies buy to run their businesses, including, in most cases, crucial equipment and supplies. The government taxes at every step. Ultimately, the consumer pays for it anyway. It’s just that all that tax is buried in the price of what you’re buying.

But the old PST does something else that’s even more harmful. It drives up the real cost of making an investment. The two-tax system is one of the major reasons why the effective tax rate on capital is much higher in B.C. and Ontario than it is in places like New Brunswick and Nova Scotia that have a single, harmonized tax. The result is less investment, which in the long run means fewer jobs. By bringing in the HST, Mr. Campbell and Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty are chopping the cost of building a plant or a warehouse or a retail store in their provinces. Only good things can come from that. You will have a hard time finding a credible economist who disagrees with this point (TD’s Don Drummond, former Bank of Canada governor David Dodge and the University of Calgary’s Jack Mintz, one of the country’s leading experts on taxation, are three of the many economists who back the HST).

The trouble for Mr. Campbell is it is nearly impossible to prove the absence of something: how do you show that there are fewer businesses operating in B.C. – paying wages and employing people – because of the absurdities of the provincial sales tax? It’s too abstract. The government commissioned Mr. Mintz to do a study on the subject; he calculated the HST policy will be such a boon for investment that it will result in 113,000 new jobs in the province by 2020.

The anti-HST campaigners just toss this stuff aside, or ignore it. But if they really believe the HST will be so awful, perhaps they could at least brush up on their history. In the late 1980s, when the Mulroney government brought in the GST, its critics claimed it would do long-term damage to the economy. It probably did make the early 1990s recession a little bit worse. But within a few years, Canada was beginning a 17-year economic expansion and a historic boom in employment. Paul Martin was balancing the budget with the help of GST revenue, income taxes were cut and Ottawa began repaying debt.

How did that happen? Don’t expect the anti-HST camp to try to explain it. They’re too busy mouthing vague platitudes about democracy, as though Mr. Campbell seized power in a military coup, and whining about paying a couple of extra bucks at the barber shop.

[Novabonker]

Still trying to put make up on the pig AF? All the lipstick in the world ain't gonna work. It's still a pig. Go to CKNW's audio vault on the 14th and listen to El Gordo claim it's revenue neutral. And listen to him try out this stuff to no success and get caught telling whoppers. Lies. Deceit.Fabrications.And Bill Good has always been the Liberals biggest supporter

You see AF, the problem is Gordo's lack of honesty. Nobody believes him any more. Simply put - he's outright lied and"fine printed" so many times, that he's used all his free passes. You can try and sell this all you want, but it's just not going to resonate with the public that the area with some of the lowest corporate taxes in Canada should subsidize business even more. But keep on trying, I really enjoy watching the straw grasp.

http://blog.canadianbusiness.com/provinces-with-lowest-corporate-tax-rates/

[alwaysfishn]

The Fraser Institute:  http://www.fraserinstitute.org/aboutus/whoweare/funding.htm

BC's Low and Middle-Income Families Will Pay Less Taxes Under the HST; Harmonization Will Have No Impact on BC's Tax Freedom Day

VANCOUVER, BRITISH COLUMBIA--(Marketwire - June 21, 2010) - Most low and middle-income families in BC will see their total tax bill decrease under a harmonized sales tax (HST), according to new research by the Fraser Institute, Canada's leading public policy think tank.
The Institute also found that the HST, which combines the current provincial sales tax (PST) with the federal goods and services tax (GST) and is set for implementation on July 1, does not change the date of BC's Tax Freedom Day.
"Under the HST, BC's tax system becomes slightly more progressive, due to the reductions in provincial income taxes and the new HST credit. This means most families with lower incomes will end up paying less tax overall, while most families with high incomes will pay slightly more," said Niels Veldhuis, Fraser Institute senior economist and co-author of the report, The Impact of the HST on British Columbian Families.
"The leaders of the campaign to halt the HST are distorting and exaggerating the impact of the harmonized sales tax. The truth is, low income families will be better off under the HST."

Effect of the HST by Family Income
When the provincial government introduced its HST legislation, it also increased the basic personal income tax exemption to $11,000, which reduces the amount of tax individuals pay, and introduced an HST credit for low and modest income families.

As a result, even though low and mid-income families will pay slightly more in sales taxes, the increases are more than offset by income tax reductions and the HST credit, leaving most low and middle-income families in BC with a smaller total tax bill in 2011 under the HST than under the PST.

Overall, families with incomes between $20,000 and $40,000 in 2011 will see an average tax reduction of $411; families with incomes between $40,000 and $60,000 will see their total tax bill decrease by an average of $159; while families with income between $60,000 and $80,000 will see an average tax reduction of $34.

Families in upper income groups will see a slight increase in their total tax bill; an average increase of $65 for families with incomes between $80,000 and $100,000; an average increase of $117 for families with income between $100,000 and $120,000; and an average increase of $167 for families with income between $120,000 and $140,000. However, these increases are negligible given the total taxes paid by families in these income groups. For example, the $167 average increase in the total tax bill for families with income between $120,000 and $140,000 represents an increase of just 0.3 per cent.

Effect of the HST on BC's Tax Freedom Day
Each year, the Fraser Institute calculates Tax Freedom Day, a clear and easy-to-understand representation of the amount of tax the average family must pay to all levels of government. If British Columbians were required to pay all of their taxes up front, they would have to pay each and every dollar they earned to governments prior to Tax Freedom Day.
Using the Tax Freedom Day methodology, the Institute calculated when Tax Freedom Day would fall in 2011 for the average BC family under the current PST tax system and compared it to where it would fall under the HST tax system. In both instances, Tax Freedom Day falls on June 8.
"Under the HST, there is no change in Tax Freedom Day; a harmonized sales tax has basically no impact on the total tax bill paid by the average family," Veldhuis said.

The Institute's Tax Freedom Day calculations found that the average family will pay slightly more provincial sales tax under the HST than it would under the existing PST. Specifically, provincial sales taxes paid by the average family would be $249 higher under the HST in 2011, $3,382 in provincial HST compared to $3,133 in PST. At the same time, the personal income tax reductions brought in by the government reduces the average BC family's income taxes by $205 in 2011, from $11,245 to $11,040.
All told, the total tax bill for the average British Columbian family will increase by $44 from $37,562 under the PST, to $37,606 under the HST, a negligible amount representing only 0.12 per cent of the average family's total tax bill. In the context of Tax Freedom Day, it's the equivalent of working an extra 63 minutes a year for government under the HST.

"The claims of large tax increases and other distortions spread by opponents of the HST have no foundation in reality and are not backed up with reliable data or sound analysis," Veldhuis said.
"Quite simply, the HST is good for British Columbia. It will lower investment costs and spark more business investment and development. This will ultimately make BC workers more productive, increase their wages, and create more employment opportunities."

The Impact of the HST on British Columbian Families is the first of two analytical studies the Fraser Institute has conducted on the effects of BC's HST. The second study on the HST will be released later this month.
The Fraser Institute is an independent Canadian public policy research and educational organization with offices in Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto, and Montreal and ties to a global network of 75 think tanks. Its mission is to measure, study, and communicate the impact of competitive markets and government intervention on the welfare of individuals. To protect the Institute's independence, it does not accept grants from governments or contracts for research.

http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Fraser-Institute-BCs-Low-Middle-Income-Families-Will-Pay-Less-Taxes-Under-HST-Harmonization-1278894.htm

[arimaBOATER]

What the world has done to the tax & money system is so "CRAZY" plain & simple.
They have made so many rules that the whole system is unbalenced & FULL OF RED TAPE...

The entire world should go to a one world currency...& have a 10 % sales tax ...& any company that is the area pays a 10% tax.
The tax collected goes 50/50 to the Fed. & Prov. gov.(s) .

The net result is workers get a FULL PAY CHECK...& after paying their food & lodging WILL HAVE PLENTY left over to BUY THINGS !!!
When people are spending ALOT then it creates 2 things.

A) Lots of sales tax thus gov (s) get the tax they need to run things... Ya say how can a gov(s) run with only a 10% tax ?
DO NOT FORGET ...with the MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WITH MONEY IN THEIR POCKET WILL BE BUYING THINGS at the mall,dealerships
restaurants etc...thus the TAX will get like a winfall for the gov.
B) When people are buying it does one thing...CREATES JOBS ....Companies are hiring like crazy because people are spending (leave money in people's pockets & they will spend....over tax & the result is ressession.)
HST is MORE TAX. thus again it adds to the already problem.
The whole money system is crazy right now & all the rules red tape & over taxation are the cause. The complication has made the system BOGGED DOWN.
Simplify it & people will spend & jobs will be created.... the malls will be filled with buyers...restaurents filled...factories producing...jobs avaible...

[chris gadsden]

The Fraser Institute is just another well known supporter of the current admististraction in Victoria, everyone knows that they would put a positive light on the HST.

Stat's Canada I just heard a minute ago on Global TV says it will cost each household $500 per year, watch the papers for this, I am sure alwaysfishin will find it for us when it comes out in print.

[alwaysfishn]

The Fraser Institute is just another well known supporter of the current admististraction in Victoria, everyone knows that they would put a positive light on the HST.

"The Fraser Institute is a registered non-profit organization. We depend entirely on donations from people who understand the importance of impartial research and who support greater choice, less government intervention, and more personal responsibility."

From what I've heard from Novabonker about the current administration....    it doesn't sound like the Fraser Institute would be supporting them.  Is it possible that they are not influenced by either the anti's or the pro's and actually know what they are talking about??  

[chris gadsden]

"The Fraser Institute is a registered non-profit organization. We depend entirely on donations from people who understand the importance of impartial research and who support greater choice, less government intervention, and more personal responsibility."

From what I've heard from Novabonker about the current administration....    it doesn't sound like the Fraser Institute would be supporting them.  Is it possible that they are not influenced by either the anti's or the pro's and actually know what they are talking about??  

Please find the Stat's Canada article for us, going to badminton.

[alwaysfishn]

Please find the Stat's Canada article for us, going to badminton.

I couldn't find the Stat's Can analysis only a commentary from the Victoria Times Colonist who apparently commissioned a study??

Of course we all know how impartial the Victoria Times columnist is!        

I'll keep looking for the Stat's Canada analysis though....   I don't have badminton to go to...  

[chris gadsden]

I couldn't find the Stat's Can analysis only a commentary from the Victoria Times Colonist who apparently commissioned a study??

Of course we all know how impartial the Victoria Times columnist is!        

I'll keep looking for the Stat's Canada analysis though....   I don't have badminton to go to...  

just got back from badminton and here is the article.

VICTORIA — The average B.C. household could take a hit of $521 to its bottom line next year as a result of the harmonized sales tax, according to a model prepared for the Victoria Times Colonist by Statistics Canada.


The change could range anywhere from $78 for households with single parents and one child to $801 for a married couple with no children, the figures show.


"There are certainly individuals and households that will feel the impact of this tax," said Dr. Herbert Schuetze, economics professor at the University of Victoria. "For example if you are unattached and 65 years or older we're talking about $262 a year. That's a considerable amount of money for some people."


At the request of the Victoria Times Colonist, Statistics Canada analyzed 15 different household types and 15 different income classifications using its social policy simulation database and model.


The model is used by the federal government and other organizations to analyze financial interactions between government and individuals.


For the HST analysis, it synthesized four databases — the Survey of Household Spending, Survey of Labour and Income Dynamics, EI claimant history and personal income tax returns — to establish a synthetic sample of B.C. households. The weighted total of households in the sample was 1.935 million.


Statistics Canada determined what that synthetic sample spent on various items, its household income and characteristics and then followed the rules of the income tax system and applied all of the rebates, tax credits and rules surrounding the HST and GST to the sample to determine the impact of the tax.


The figures suggest the more money households bring in, the more they will pay out.


For example, a household with an annual income of $40,000 to $50,000 will pay $253 more because of the HST, while households in the $80,000 to $90,000 range will pay $1,128 more annually.


"It looks like families get hit pretty hard," Schuetze said.


Statistics Canada model incorporated a number of initiatives designed to offset the effects of the tax.


Those include a B.C. HST credit of up to $230 annually to low-income households, an increase to the personal tax credit, a rebate for home energy and point-of-sale rebates for a number of other items.


Yet each of the 30 household types for which Statistics Canada provided figures shows some negative impact as a result of the HST.


That does not jibe with material in the March provincial budget, although the parameters for the government's analysis were not the same as those used by Statistics Canada.


The budget documents showed a family of four with $30,000 of income coming out ahead $535 annually, while a family of four with an income of $60,000 would spend an extra $107 a year and a family of four with an income of $90,000 would spend $178.


According to the province, single individuals with an income of $80,000 faced a $314 increase in spending, while single people with $25,000 incomes would end up $2 ahead and a senior couple with an income of $30,000 up $1 annually.


The model Statistics Canada used for the Victoria Times Colonist analysis did not take into account the effect of the HST on housing, which is significant.


Previously new homes were exempt from provincial sales tax. Starting July 1, they will be subject to the HST, although purchasers will be eligible for a rebate on the provincial portion of the tax up to a maximum of $26,250.


The model also assumed all costs to business as well as savings a business might realize as a result of the HST would be passed on to consumers.


But perhaps the largest unknown is behavioural change caused by the new tax.


Schuetze said that is a significant caveat.


"It may be an overestimation of the impact in part because there's no change in consumption assumed here," he said. The Statistics Canada model assumed households would spend as much as they did pre-HST, something that is unlikely to happen.


Indeed dozens of Victoria residents for this series said they would be cutting back on unnecessary expenditures after July 1.


"I may have to make some cutbacks like eating out and I will have to think more before I spend," said Jeff McKay, a 33-year-old executive with Oak Bay Marine Group.


"I will have to be more careful," said Caitlin Flanders, 24, who works for the Queen's Printer. "Going out for coffee or lunches, which I don't do that much anyway, I won't do as often because of that tax."