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Author Topic: Save Wild Salmon!  (Read 10106 times)

jon5hill

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Save Wild Salmon!
« on: April 13, 2010, 10:34:14 AM »

Please watch the video, it's extremely informative. Please do your part, join the GET OUT Migration, http://salmonaresacred.org/


Here is the video, enjoy (it has really catchy music too!)
http://vimeo.com/10886081
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chris gadsden

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Re: Save Wild Salmon!
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2010, 11:04:38 AM »

Great video.

Some other recent links. ]

For more details of the 2010 WINGS ‘Women of Discovery Awards’ please visit: http://www.wingsworldquest.org/women-of-discovery-awards/ <http://www.wingsworldquest.org/women-of-discovery-awards/>  and http://explore.wingsworldquest.org/node/470 <http://explore.wingsworldquest.org/node/470>


 http://ogwilaogwa.chipin.com/molina-and-walk-out-migration <http://ogwilaogwa.chipin.com/molina-and-walk-out-migration>


gordc

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Re: Save Wild Salmon!
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2010, 02:10:46 PM »

Do people not realize that the fight against salmon farming is big business too?  Anyone check out what David Suzuki is driving or what his house is like?

About the sockeye... the Americans have a hatchery program that releases millions of fish into the wild.  These fish compete with some of our sockeye runs for food in the ocean.  Is it possible that this has taken a toll on the Fraser River sockeye?  If it's the Salmon farms causing the problems why was the pink return so high?  Why were the Vancouver Island sockeye returns good? 

What would happen to the ocean stock if we didn't farm seafood?

Just points worth looking at.  i know people will comment that I must be employed by the fish farming industry etc etc but really, I just feel the facts are not here.  Just propaganda as always and people are too lazy to look for real data.  People are spoon fed this type of information and for some reason take it as the gospel.
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bklem

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Re: Save Wild Salmon!
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2010, 02:25:09 PM »

Do people not realize that the fight against salmon farming is big business too?  Anyone check out what David Suzuki is driving or what his house is like?

About the sockeye... the Americans have a hatchery program that releases millions of fish into the wild.  These fish compete with some of our sockeye runs for food in the ocean.  Is it possible that this has taken a toll on the Fraser River sockeye?  If it's the Salmon farms causing the problems why was the pink return so high?  Why were the Vancouver Island sockeye returns good? 

What would happen to the ocean stock if we didn't farm seafood?

Just points worth looking at.  i know people will comment that I must be employed by the fish farming industry etc etc but really, I just feel the facts are not here.  Just propaganda as always and people are too lazy to look for real data.  People are spoon fed this type of information and for some reason take it as the gospel.

 ::)
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liketofish

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Re: Save Wild Salmon!
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2010, 04:42:21 PM »

Do people not realize that the fight against salmon farming is big business too?  Anyone check out what David Suzuki is driving or what his house is like?


So do you know the answer? just curious.. ;D  ???

Let me guess - solar power or electric car and probably live in a tree house like Tarzan?  ;D ;D
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yamadirt 426

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Re: Save Wild Salmon!
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2010, 06:43:34 PM »

Do people not realize that the fight against salmon farming is big business too?  Anyone check out what David Suzuki is driving or what his house is like?

About the sockeye... the Americans have a hatchery program that releases millions of fish into the wild.  These fish compete with some of our sockeye runs for food in the ocean.  Is it possible that this has taken a toll on the Fraser River sockeye?  If it's the Salmon farms causing the problems why was the pink return so high?  Why were the Vancouver Island sockeye returns good?  

What would happen to the ocean stock if we didn't farm seafood?

Just points worth looking at.  i know people will comment that I must be employed by the fish farming industry etc etc but really, I just feel the facts are not here.  Just propaganda as always and people are too lazy to look for real data.  People are spoon fed this type of information and for some reason take it as the gospel.

Who gives a crap about Suzuki. He was in it for nature years ago. As well as to make money off his show. Now its money, money, money . But salmon farms come on. They are a major factor(not the only factor) to alot of fish. Yes lets just wait until the fishfarms and government give us all the facts. Great idea. Fish farms are another form of cancer on the water. You might have a wait and see attitude but the ocean can't make that decision. Get them on land where they can harvest the fertilizer as well as the fish.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2010, 10:35:00 AM by Rodney »
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jon5hill

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Re: Save Wild Salmon!
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2010, 09:12:25 PM »

Do people not realize that the fight against salmon farming is big business too?  Anyone check out what David Suzuki is driving or what his house is like?

About the sockeye... the Americans have a hatchery program that releases millions of fish into the wild.  These fish compete with some of our sockeye runs for food in the ocean.  Is it possible that this has taken a toll on the Fraser River sockeye?  If it's the Salmon farms causing the problems why was the pink return so high?  Why were the Vancouver Island sockeye returns good? 

What would happen to the ocean stock if we didn't farm seafood?

Just points worth looking at.  i know people will comment that I must be employed by the fish farming industry etc etc but really, I just feel the facts are not here.  Just propaganda as always and people are too lazy to look for real data.  People are spoon fed this type of information and for some reason take it as the gospel.

Ask Alexandra Morton how much money she has made fighting open pen aquaculture in BC. I'm sure she'll give you a negative number. David Suzuki and what he drives? are you seriously that naive? Have you even the slightest idea about the science? Are you even remotely informed or educated about the issues and the literature? I've been to a number of meetings, including the most recent dialogue regarding the collapse of the Fraser Sockeye, and hatchery fish from the states was not even discussed at all.

Look at the science before you blabber about random things you have no sources for. Please quote me something from somewhere, so we can look at it and discuss. You have not done any research, so refrain from posting unless you actually do an ounce of homework. ::)
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gordc

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Re: Save Wild Salmon!
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2010, 09:33:18 PM »


I certainly do not wish to come across as a dumb troll.  I agree that we should not just wait for gov't and salmon farmers to provide facts however, I would apply the same scrutiny to any info regardless of it's source.  I think that many people attach an immediate credibility to an environmentalist's claims whether it's deserved or not.  An example of this is the way "An Inconvenient Truth" was perceived, people licked this up and global warming was the new religion but since that movie many of the scientists and the data presented have been proven wrong.  Give this a read:

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/item_W90Iqq6WKZDieukjRUChXJ;jsessionid=A152EC485EFFCF74F40DCF7E92405B4C

or do a little research and find your own info on the subject.   


Yamadirt, just provide one explanation as to why we had such a significant pink salmon run when Ms. Morton had predicted near extinction.  The salmon farms were to be THE contributing factor to the pink decline but the very fish who migrate near the farms return in abundance.

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gordc

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Re: Save Wild Salmon!
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2010, 10:00:10 PM »

Here you go John

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/aquaculture/lice-pou/lice-pou04-eng.htm

http://alaskasalmonranching.wordpress.com/what-is-salmon-ranching/

http://alaskasalmonranching.wordpress.com/category/salmon-ranching-101/

http://salmonfarming.blogspot.com/

It's not fair to assume I've done no research or assume I haven't done my homework.  I have plenty of resource from which to draw upon and am privy to plenty of data on the subject.  The point about Suzuki was just to say that money is a motive for him like any other and that always affects objectivity. 

PS  Just like you said John "Look at the science"!!!
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jon5hill

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Re: Save Wild Salmon!
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2010, 10:01:49 PM »


Yamadirt, just provide one explanation as to why we had such a significant pink salmon run when Ms. Morton had predicted near extinction.  The salmon farms were to be THE contributing factor to the pink decline but the very fish who migrate near the farms return in abundance.



Ms. Morton didn't predict near extinction of the Fraser Pink salmon run. Dr. Martin Krkosek published a paper in the journal Science that projected pink salmon populations in the Broughton archipelago originating from the Ahta and Viner river systems toward rapid local extinction. Source: http://www.math.ualberta.ca/~mkrkosek/Lenfest%20RSR%20sea%20lice%20final%2012.07.pdf

Once again, before you make broad sweeping generalizations about what factors were supposed to be THE contributing factors about anything, please actually do a shred of research instead of making a random statement with no sources, citations or personal experience.
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gordc

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Re: Save Wild Salmon!
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2010, 10:14:24 PM »

Jonn, A. Morton is listed as a co- Author in the link you provided.
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jon5hill

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Re: Save Wild Salmon!
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2010, 10:15:46 PM »

Here you go John

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/aquaculture/lice-pou/lice-pou04-eng.htm

http://alaskasalmonranching.wordpress.com/what-is-salmon-ranching/

http://alaskasalmonranching.wordpress.com/category/salmon-ranching-101/

http://salmonfarming.blogspot.com/

It's not fair to assume I've done no research or assume I haven't done my homework.  I have plenty of resource from which to draw upon and am privy to plenty of data on the subject.  The point about Suzuki was just to say that money is a motive for him like any other and that always affects objectivity. 

PS  Just like you said John "Look at the science"!!!

Independent science, unlike the gray literature and websites with factoids you have posted demonstrate that sea lice are both in higher abundance in areas where fish farms are present, and negatively impact wild fish. The DFO is not an independent source. It is a federal institution with vested interest in promoting aquaculture in Canada for foreign multinational investment. The independent science demonstrates that this interest is in direct contradiction with DFO's other mandate, which is to protect wild salmon. The reason we are working to move salmon farms out of the way of migration routes and/or on land based facilities, is because the DFO is not satisfying their mandate to protect wild fish. DFO's own research has consistently dodged the issue and as such is highly controversial. This is not just tree hugging hippies trying to find something to complain about, this is not an effort to make money as you stated above. The science is in, it's up to us what we want to do about it. I encourage your skepticism, as a scientist that is our default expression. However, reckless disregard for people's efforts to save wild stocks as bandwagoners for sustainability and environmentalism is down right absurd.

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jon5hill

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Re: Save Wild Salmon!
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2010, 10:17:07 PM »

Jonn, A. Morton is listed as a co- Author in the link you provided.

Of course she is, yet it's entirely beside the point. The more you speak, the more of a reactionary troll you appear to be. I can appreciate playing devils advocate, but you're not even making valid argument.
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gordc

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Re: Save Wild Salmon!
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2010, 10:29:05 PM »

Not a troll John, just a passionate fisherman offering a different perspective.  I get it if it's not welcome here, I'm really not interested in confrontation.  Just like to provoke thought and really do care about the preservation/conservation of things.  I have kids man.

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jon5hill

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Re: Save Wild Salmon!
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2010, 10:41:22 PM »

Not a troll John, just a passionate fisherman offering a different perspective.  I get it if it's not welcome here, I'm really not interested in confrontation.  Just like to provoke thought and really do care about the preservation/conservation of things.  I have kids man.




Different perspective is a highly sought after commodity in the world of politics. All those extremely successful aquaculture firms from Norway pay millions for it, it's called lobbying. I can appreciate your reasoning, as forming decisions about an issue is based on looking at all angles possible, then weighing it out. You can imagine how much hogwash must be on the internet, especially these days. I trust that we can both conclude that independent scientific journals are about the most objective way of looking at things, and when dealing with something as invisible to the average citizen as sea lice in the ocean permeating from fish farms - it's our best tool. If you look at literature published about the contentious issues regarding aquaculture (disease, parasitism, waste, nitrification, invasive escapements, and so on..) the vast majority has determined that wherever fish farms operate, wild fish take a hit. If you value wild salmon, you should stand up and do something about it. Look at the history of aquaculture, specifically salmon farming. Norways wild stocks were demolished, Scotlands took a major hit, then Chile's wild stocks were nearly completely wiped out from ISA which would not have propagated at the rate and density had it not been for open-pen feed lots where vectors for these diseases and parasites are in close proximity and by the hundreds of thousands. You have a gut, use it - the ocean is not a toilet.
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