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[huntwriter]

Huntwriter you are quick to label people eco-terrorists or animal rights activists for having views that differ from your own.

I am not quick to label people. The FBI has done that for me. The organizations, like PETA, the HSUS and See Shepard among others, that lobbied the European Union to boycott Canada exports are considered "terrorists" by the FBI, and for good reason because they are supporting politically and financially terrorist gangs like the ALF (Animal Liberation Front) and others. Google "animal rights terrorism" or "eco-terrorism" and see what turns up.

I have no problem advocating culling if it is necessary to "save" salmon stocks... however, I'm uncomfortable with the idea of killing a pile of seals just because they are "the competition" and then selling it under the "wildlife management" euphamism.

It's not just about salmon or because seals are some kind of competition. It's about seal populations having dangerously outgrown their habitats carrying capacity. In other words and simplified for the layman. With a conservative estimation of 9.5 million seals (2007 estimate) the bucket is overflowing not just dripping.

Wildlife management here in Canada, and America for that matter, is not a euphemism, but a system that is admired and copied by many other countries around the world. It is because of Canada's unique wildlife management involving hunters that species such as the elk, mule deer, sheep, turkey, waterfowl, black and grizzly bears to name a few have rebound from the brink of extinction to numbers never seen before in recorded history. One small Example: How many of you know that in the 50's waterfowl was almost non existent in North America? Now look at it, millions of ducks and geese are back in Canada and the USA, more than anywhere else in the world. Wildlife management is not a euphemism it is realty and works for the befit of all.     

[chris gadsden]

This is a good opportunity to put up the list of evil species that we need to selectively cull.

Northern pikeminnow
Do your part, otherwise there'll be no salmon left soon. How dare these creatures threaten our beloved salmon.

$2 each.

[huntwriter]

I'd be wondering a few things before I'd back a cull.

First, what were the traditional populations of seals/sea lions before humans began to harvest them or their food? Were there more of them back then than now, or less? Only if less then could you move on to other factors like whether the large population of seals is just a natural population fluctuation or if it is actually abnormally high because of humans. Will it eventually correct itself naturally?

Calling for a cull based on an opinion or first hand (localized) experiences is a nearsighted way of thinking (remember wolves in Yellowstone park). All most of you know for fact is that seals eat salmon. You don't have any population estimates of your own, any knowledge of the carrying capacity to compare it to, you don't have historic populations, you don't know that actual correlation between seal population and salmon population. Basically there are a lot of unknowns that need to become knowns before you can start taking drastic measures like a cull. 

Seals have never been "counted" before the 70's so we have no accurate figures before then. Before and right up to the 70's seal populations worldwide went down due to commercial hunting activity. Same as most game species before sound wildlife management was introduced. The first estimate from the 70's, according to my papers, was around 2.5 million.

Since then the population has reached 9.5 million. The catch in 2008 here in Canada was 234,000 seals, that is not even a drop of water on a hot stone. The reason seal kill numbers dropped is because there is barely a market for seal products thanks to animal rights and armchair biologists voicing their uneducated opinions in public, selling it as researched facts for financial and political agenda gains. There are a lot of known facts from biologists who studied seals and the situation we're in. As an animal behaviourist I can tell you from my field of expertise that when animals start to become extremely intolerant of each other and begin to kill each other and their offspring then that is a sign of stress which is the result over population. The lack of food, space and shelter makes the animals aggressive, a bit like big city people trampling on each others feet. What you have in this situation is a population that has outgrown its habitat. There is no room and there is no food. What is there so difficult to understand?


 

[marmot]

HW,  come on.... let's not pretend that people have the seals OR salmons best interest in mind when it comes to a cull.  Fish = money.  Seals get in the way of $, so they die.  It's OK by me because people have to eat, I'm saying let's not sugar coat it. 

Wildlife management is and has always been done for the benefit of the people using the resource.  Ever notice what happens to species that are not on the radar for human use?  This is what I am getting at when I call it a euphamism.

This isn't to say that wildlife management in earnest is a bad thing, only that the seal cull is more about resource protection and $$$ than wildlife management.  I hope you understand the distinction I am trying to make.

 

[huntwriter]

HW,  come on.... let's not pretend that people have the seals OR salmons best interest in mind when it comes to a cull.  Fish = money.  Seals get in the way of $, so they die.  It's OK by me because people have to eat, I'm saying let's not sugar coat it. 

Wildlife management is and has always been done for the benefit of the people using the resource.  Ever notice what happens to species that are not on the radar for human use?  This is what I am getting at when I call it a euphamism.

This isn't to say that wildlife management in earnest is a bad thing, only that the seal cull is more about resource protection and $$$ than wildlife management.  I hope you understand the distinction I am trying to make.

 

If you want to look at it that way be my guest, but that does not change the fact that the seals trample on each others feet and nerves because they run out of space.

[Nutterbug]

HW,  come on.... let's not pretend that people have the seals OR salmons best interest in mind when it comes to a cull.  Fish = money.  Seals get in the way of $, so they die.  It's OK by me because people have to eat, I'm saying let's not sugar coat it. 

So let's not be picky eaters and eat the seals too.  Don't let their flesh go to waste.

[andychan]

This is a good opportunity to put up the list of evil species that we need to selectively cull.

Humbolt squid
Salmon shark
Killer whale
Harbour seal
Sea lion
Sea otter
Sea gull
Bald eagle
Golden eagle
Black bear
Grizzly bear
River otter
Bull trout
Cutthroat trout
Rainbow trout
Northern pikeminnow
Sculpin
Lingcod
Rockfish
Pacific cod
Chub Mackerel
Jelly fish
Tuna
Marlin

Do your part, otherwise there'll be no salmon left soon. How dare these creatures threaten our beloved salmon.

Of the animals on the list you posted Rod, are anyone of them apart from seals as efficient in massing together and hanging around dams so they can easily pick off salmon?

I've never seen a marlin or squid or killer whale or even Orca in the Capilano or Squamish or Vedder zipping around and corralling salmon in.

Should we not ask at whether seals have recently been taking an disproportionally large number of salmon vs their traditional counterparts.

[marmot]

So let's not be picky eaters and eat the seals too.  Don't let their flesh go to waste.

yum!

[~IvAn~]

So let's not be picky eaters and eat the seals too.  Don't let their flesh go to waste.

mmmmm... smoked seal meat!! I wonder if it tastes like chicken?

[marmot]

If you want to look at it that way be my guest, but that does not change the fact that the seals trample on each others feet and nerves because they run out of space.

Curious where you have seen this?  I've been up and down the island and sunshine coast a number of times and haven't seen too many colonies where this happens.  Not debating whether it happens or not, just curious as to where specifically they are engaging in this behavior.  
If seals have established large populations at pinch points for returning salmon, I DO agree, as long as they are a threat to salmon stock survival in a given system, it's time for a cull.  Coastwide though... I'm skeptical of both necessity and effectiveness.

cheers.

[arimaBOATER]

Agree with Andy Chan where he asks the question....are seals over-populated & eating TOO MUCH SALMON

With the bounty in SK on coyotes (70,000 killed as they were over-populated & attacking kids dogs sheep cows etc...) they are now greatly reduced THUS wouldn't it make sense that deer rabbits grouse etc...will build up their numbers in that province.

70,000 less coyotes looking for their daily meal means alot of other animals are not not the menu.

Say if 200,000 seals would be killed in southern BC waters I'd think alot more salmon would get to live.....& spawn.

Mind ya did see on yesterday's tv news that Orcas do eat harbour seals SO if we were to kill too many would it have an effect on the Orcas
One has to find a balance & there's no room for mistakes........................... (kill too many maybe the Orcas will not find enough chinooks ...& with less seals...the Orca may starve off.)  
As controlling the over-population of the human race ...well it may be coming if the scripture (New Test.)is correct as it tells of 1/3 of the birds of the air 1/3 of the things in the sea & 1/3 of the things on the land will be destroyed...only nuclear bombs could do that !!!!

[marmot]

Agree with Andy Chan where he asks the question....are seals over-populated & eating TOO MUCH SALMON

With the bounty in SK on coyotes (70,000 killed as they were over-populated & attacking kids dogs sheep cows etc...) they are now greatly reduced THUS wouldn't it make sense that deer rabbits grouse etc...will build up their numbers in that province.

70,000 less coyotes looking for their daily meal means alot of other animals are not not the menu.

Say if 200,000 seals would be killed in southern BC waters I'd think alot more salmon would get to live.....& spawn.

Mind ya did see on yesterday's tv news that Orcas do eat harbour seals SO if we were to kill too many would it have an effect on the Orcas
One has to find a balance & there's no room for mistakes........................... (kill too many maybe the Orcas will not find enough chinooks ...& with less seals...the Orca may starve off.)  
As controlling the over-population of the human race ...well it may be coming if the scripture (New Test.)is correct as it tells of 1/3 of the birds of the air 1/3 of the things in the sea & 1/3 of the things on the land will be destroyed...only nuclear bombs could do that !!!!

this is the joke of it all though.  We sit here trying to balance out seals/orcas/salmon etc. when all the while the biggest threat to any of them is human consumption (not to mention habitat destruction).  Anyone who cannot see that is blind.  Salmon, seals, and orca would all be doing just fine without people messing things up.  Populations keep themselves in check naturally.  The problem is that we've created an unnatural ecosystem on a global level. 

[rhino]

I think mother nature knows better the we do how do make her own natural corrections 

[huntwriter]

Curious where you have seen this?  I've been up and down the island and sunshine coast a number of times and haven't seen too many colonies where this happens.

I am not talking about the few and far between seals on the island, the sunshine coast or even in Vancouver. I am talking about the traditional seal territories way up north in Nunavut, Quebec, Alaska, Siberia and Newfoundland. Where you can see hundreds of thousands packed together like the sardines.

[rides bike to work]

Ive seen this behavior on the vedder seal herding salmon,make for tough fishing the next couple hours,and of source we have to conserve salmon,deer,grouse,water foul,these are are plentiful healthy food sources for humans have you tried seal meat it  tastes like a fishy deer.Wildlife management runs deep here iin chilliwack every year volunteers watch to make sure an endangered frog can cross the road up rider lake and the regional district battle invasive  plant species while protecting endangered species like the west coast giant newt and many others. like  the fallow   deer cull on the island its part and parcel with management.