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[alwaysfishn]

Go back to the HST thread,  ;DI just posted some info for you that I said I would.

Thanks for your posting in this thread Chris!
It's funny how people throw out comments about how they feel about flossing in threads where the comments don't belong, yet when there is a thread specifically for this subject it only get looks.....   

[chris gadsden]

Thanks for your posting in this thread Chris!
It's funny how people throw out comments about how they feel about flossing in threads where the comments don't belong, yet when there is a thread specifically for this subject it only get looks.....  

At this time it is legal but for my personal reasons that I have stated before I would never consider doing it again, I think it has been 8 or more years since I joined the sockeye mania on the Fraser which I have to admit felt good to have them on and were nice to eat and can.

At that time we did not know they were not biting,   I had to have a green glow on but when my son got 2 on three casts with a bare hook that was the beginning of the end for me.

It will continue to happen with the only thing that could bring it under control would maybe be circle hooks and a leader length.

Each year people quit flossing but many continue and others take it up as there is no learning curve to have success.

[wizard]

say what you want about flossing,,,,at the end of the day IT IS SNAGGING. this method of fishing imo is no different from people snagging on the stave etc.  only diff is flossed fish are snagged usually around the head and mouth area.  how is this different?

[alwaysfishn]

say what you want about flossing,,,,at the end of the day IT IS SNAGGING. this method of fishing imo is no different from people snagging on the stave etc.  only diff is flossed fish are snagged usually around the head and mouth area.  how is this different?

Is this method of catching fish more or less ethical than a commercial fisherman using a drift net?

[alwaysfishn]

At this time it is legal but for my personal reasons that I have stated before I would never consider doing it again, I think it has been 8 or more years since I joined the sockeye mania on the Fraser which I have to admit felt good to have them on and were nice to eat and can.

At that time we did not know they were not biting,  I had to have a green glow on but when my son got 2 on three casts with a bare hook that was the beginning of the end for me.

It will continue to happen with the only thing that could bring it under control would maybe be circle hooks and a lender length.

Each year people quit flossing but many continue and others take it up as there is no learning curve to have success.

I appreciate your comments Chris. I like your approach to arguing your position as I believe it is much more effective than an "us against them" approach.

If a person gives others enough reasons why they do or don't believe in something then they'll probably have a better chance of convincing them. (OK, HST may be the exception  )
Calling someone names because they don't believe the same thing just gets their back up... and doesn't advance the cause that you believe in. 

[liketofish]

Ethics is in the eyes of the beholder. It all depends on where you stand in the spectrums of things.

If you were a fish - do you like your killer more because you become his meal with a hook in the mouth than from the side?   Do you deserve to die more because you just want to eat a meal?

If you were a eagle, a bear, or all sorts of life forms which have to depend on the annual return of salmon for substaining them to live through winter (and therefore the survival of their species) - what? you crazy humans, you mean we have to bite, claw or beak the salmon in the mouth before we can deserve the fish    

If you are among the starving people in the 3rd world - this debate is for you idiots of the rich and spoiled people of the industrialized world? Want to change place for a day?  

If you are buddist or a PETA member - do you think it is ethical killing a fish, even for a meal? You murderers and killers..... murder, murder murder, kill, kill, kill.  

If you are a flyfishing purist - the debate on your crude and unsophisticated way of fishing is a joke? Want to try weightless flossing which is lead free?  

If you are a catch & release purist - we are more ethical because we are going to put the fish through hell, then kiss it good bye & say 'thank you buddy' for a great fight to make my day a happy day'. What? It is unethical to build your fun on others' suffering? Na! Get lost! 

If you are a bar-fisher, do you think it is ethical to fish with a ton of lead, polluting the river and its near shore ecology (forget about where the hook is located), as it is much more unethical and much worst to the fish and its habitat to flood the river with unretrievable lead bombs so that you can eat your fish.  

Alwaysfishin is right. Fishing was originally a way of collecting meat to feed the family in the ancient days, much like hunting for games. As long as you are fishing for food, using the most efficient and legal method is good and ethical. People of old used the most efficient methods which won't harm fish stock much, because they were not killing fish massively which made fishing sustainable in the past. Even when nets were used, they were small cast nets or dip nets, or spears, never the mighty fish killing machine like the drift/gill nets and seine nets of today.

So, I am happy to fish a legal and ethical method which is the most efficient method for a fisherman with one rod and one hook on the Fraser. In the smaller systems, it is a different story, as other methods are more efficient and it is foul hooking too many fish in the body other than the mouth. It should be banned or discouraged.

[bluesteele]

The fishing for food reason is a joke. I dont need to list all that is needed to get yourself to the river equipped and licensed.
Save yourself the financial hardship and catch the bus to save-on and buy one. Or better yet from out of the back of the local natives truck or trunk.

Sport Fishing for food is a joke...an excuse...flossing is still 100% unethical no matter what the spin doctors say.

How bout this for a spin... If I were stranded outdoors and in a survival situation..Fishing rules go out the door. Rock Showers for any fishys caught..

[milo]

Not everything that is legal is ethical, just like not everything that is ethical is necessarily legal.
Let your innards be the judge.

To me it boils down to this: regardless of the catching method, Fraser sockeye tastes the same, and it doesn't give a rat's my friend if it fell victim to a tasty morsel, a chunk of metal or a swinging hook with a bit of yarn on it.

So, will I floss if the numbers are good and there is an opening for sockeye? Yes.
Two times out with my wife and that's eight sockeye in the freezer. Fast, inexpensive, efficient - enough for the two of us.
Plus there's the bonus of spending two nice summer days on the river.
Saying anything else beyond the above would be cheap rhetoric and I 'll spare you from it.

I have another 50-60 days a year of fishing when I scratch my head trying to decide which fly will work best in a given situation.
Like tomorrow on the Vedder.

[carpenter]

i would have to say that flossing can be a great technique for catch and release , who wants to keep a half dead salmon anyways and if you by chance hook a silver fish all the best to you. I got back into fishing in the vedder and probably only get 2 fish worth keeping during the late season . the rest of the time i release everything so what if you want to have a little fun .  fishing is supposed to be fun isn't it ? some of you guys need to relax a little .  We all want to be able to fish and flossing is a simple way for un experienced guys to get a little piece of the action.  That is as long as they are being respectful and polite when fishing with the hoard.  if you dont like it fish somewhere else.

[bluesteele]

Hmmm....Looks like my last post was deleted. Must have been my sarcasm.

Seems like theirs a pro-floss bias on this forum.

Flossed fish don't bite. Pretty simple stuff.

Never ceases to amaze me how people justify flossing. But hey it's legal so it's OK.

No wonder our fisheries are in the state they are in with these attitudes.

But hey I forgot flossing is a great technique for catch and release.

Learn something new every day !

Maybe someone could put together a youtube video explaining the proper way to floss sox!

Bluesteele

[dennyman]

This flossing topic always seems to rear its ugly head whenever a possible Sockeye opening may happen on the Fraser.  Fishing for socks is a meat fishery, and if flossing were to stay there I don't have a problem with it. However, what happens is  that some people learn this method and then try to use it on other river systems. That is where I have a problem with it. Because once you go down that slippery slope you basically have convinced yourself that the fish don't bite, and the only way you are going to get them to "bite" is to floss or snag them.

[alwaysfishn]

This flossing topic always seems to rear its ugly head whenever a possible Sockeye opening may happen on the Fraser.  Fishing for socks is a meat fishery, and if flossing were to stay there I don't have a problem with it. However, what happens is  that some people learn this method and then try to use it on other river systems. That is where I have a problem with it. Because once you go down that slippery slope you basically have convinced yourself that the fish don't bite, and the only way you are going to get them to "bite" is to floss or snag them.

Thanks for your comments dennyman. I am still trying to get a yes no answer on whether flossing is ethical for the Fraser "meat fishery"? Is it a fishing technique that should be viewed as an acceptable way to get meat for the table just like natives or commercial guys use nets? Is it more ethical when a sockeye bound for your table bites your hook or you floss it? It is definitely more "sporting" when a sockey bites a spin and glow rather than it being flossed.....  Should we exchange the word ethical with the word sporting? No one likes being labeled as unethical! Especially if they are doing something that is legal.

I am not 100% convinced that flossing is either ethical or unethical. I am 100% convinced that a "holier than thou" attitude will not answer the question and instead just divides the fishing community.

You are correct that some folks take the slippery slope and use the technique in other rivers. As I've suggested before the best way to stop that is by talking about it and by talking, I mean discussing it without belittling others in the process as some on this forum do.

[andychan]

 i think debating, talking, or mentioning flossing on websites should be banned.

[alwaysfishn]

i think debating, talking, or mentioning flossing on websites should be banned.

As long as the "unethical" references and slurs are banned as well, I'm fine with your suggestion....

[BwiBwi]

No matter how a fish is caught at day's end when you keep a fish that is meat fishery.

As for C&R that's torturing fish.

If it's pure sport you want try swimming, jugging, or a walk in the forest, something that does not involve hurting other creatures.

Just my 2c.