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[blaydRnr]

he was fishing the ocean with down riggers. his intetion was not to foul hook the chinook.
that is a legal fish to bonk.

absolutely correct, but according to some the intentions shouldn't matter because ethically the fish did not willfully take the hook in the mouth, therefore it should be released.

[nosey]

   Saw a guy a few years back during a sockeye opening land a fish that was hooked behind the gills beat the crap out it pinning it down on the rocks to remove the hook then released it because he wouldn't keep a foul hooked fish, ethics are definitely in the eye of the beholder. Yesterday I went down to the river I saw cars parked in my neighbors field that he earns a living on farming, garbage starting to pile up on the river bank, people yipping and yapping at each other because some lacked the casting skills of others and pretty well a total lack of kids fishing because of the full combat attitude. Just made me want to drive down to Surrey, park on someones lawn swear at their kids and dump some of my garbage on their sidewalks, maybe go to their place of business and see if I could reduce their annual income while I'm at it, the"sport"sockeye fishery in the is pretty hard to defend on any basis. Get real people, legal, ethical, wvr this is BS, go home save the gas money and buy some fish, 60% of the people out there bottom bouncing shouldn't even be allowed to own a fishing rod, that's my ethical stand. You can argue with me all you want but you're just wasting your time you won't change my mind, my ethics are those of one of them old opinionated um.....guys. If you're one of the 40% that should be allowed to own a rod ffs pick up some of those other a-holes garbage on your way home do the river a favor. I don't give a crap whether flossing is ethical or not a large percentage of the people out there doing it aren't.

[BBarley]

I don't remember if I said it on this forum or the BCFR forum, but the morons come flying out of the woodworks when they open up the sockeye fishery down here. What me and another member on this forum witnessed the other day was nothing short of pathetic and had us both shaking our heads.

I'm used to fishing sockeye up on the Skeena drainage, and have never really noticed a big influx of idiots on the river when sockeye is open up there. Is it really that worth it to get in line with lots of other people and combat fish....?

[blaydRnr]

   Saw a guy a few years back during a sockeye opening land a fish that was hooked behind the gills beat the crap out it pinning it down on the rocks to remove the hook then released it because he wouldn't keep a foul hooked fish, ethics are definitely in the eye of the beholder. Yesterday I went down to the river I saw cars parked in my neighbors field that he earns a living on farming, garbage starting to pile up on the river bank, people yipping and yapping at each other because some lacked the casting skills of others and pretty well a total lack of kids fishing because of the full combat attitude. Just made me want to drive down to Surrey, park on someones lawn swear at their kids and dump some of my garbage on their sidewalks, maybe go to their place of business and see if I could reduce their annual income while I'm at it, the"sport"sockeye fishery in the is pretty hard to defend on any basis. Get real people, legal, ethical, wvr this is BS, go home save the gas money and buy some fish, 60% of the people out there bottom bouncing shouldn't even be allowed to own a fishing rod, that's my ethical stand. You can argue with me all you want but you're just wasting your time you won't change my mind, my ethics are those of one of them old opinionated um.....guys. If you're one of the 40% that should be allowed to own a rod ffs pick up some of those other a-holes garbage on your way home do the river a favor. I don't give a crap whether flossing is ethical or not a large percentage of the people out there doing it aren't.

i'm sorry to hear about your friend's farmland...i find this conduct disgusting and inexcusable...unfortunately being so close to the city many weekend warriors will partake in this fishery, only to hang their gear or sell them at the end of the season...very common to see during the pink run also (only difference is less arguments because of the longer run and abundance of fish).

i haven't fished for sockeye for the past 4 yrs...that's my choice, but it doesn't mean everyone else should follow suit.

you can't get everyone to think alike therefore the real problem is enforcement not ethics...that's the bottom line.

[andychan]

   Saw a guy a few years back during a sockeye opening land a fish that was hooked behind the gills beat the crap out it pinning it down on the rocks to remove the hook then released it because he wouldn't keep a foul hooked fish, ethics are definitely in the eye of the beholder. Yesterday I went down to the river I saw cars parked in my neighbors field that he earns a living on farming, garbage starting to pile up on the river bank, people yipping and yapping at each other because some lacked the casting skills of others and pretty well a total lack of kids fishing because of the full combat attitude. Just made me want to drive down to Surrey, park on someones lawn swear at their kids and dump some of my garbage on their sidewalks, maybe go to their place of business and see if I could reduce their annual income while I'm at it, the"sport"sockeye fishery in the is pretty hard to defend on any basis. Get real people, legal, ethical, wvr this is BS, go home save the gas money and buy some fish, 60% of the people out there bottom bouncing shouldn't even be allowed to own a fishing rod, that's my ethical stand. You can argue with me all you want but you're just wasting your time you won't change my mind, my ethics are those of one of them old opinionated um.....guys. If you're one of the 40% that should be allowed to own a rod ffs pick up some of those other a-holes garbage on your way home do the river a favor. I don't give a crap whether flossing is ethical or not a large percentage of the people out there doing it aren't.

elmo?

[bcguy]

The problem with ethics is that they are a luxury and more importantly, a matter of individual perspective, ethics are NOT simply a matter of black and white, otherwise it would be called a law. What some people people view as "sports fishing", others might view as an ignorant way of treating an animal, much the way, some view "trophy hunting"
When I speak of "luxury", if you are starving, and see a fish you can hit over the head, who would begrudge a man his sustinence? So the better along in society you are, the easier it is to hold to ethics as far as I can tell. If a man brings his entire family out to get thier "quota", is that ethical? I guess its a matter of perspective. If I am one man getting a fish for my freezer, and okay with flossing, I may look down on this mans behaviour, considering it unethical, yet here I am partaking in the same fishery, so what allows a man to harvest the river with his entire family, how does his conscience allow him to justify his ethics, maybe this man is the sole supporter of his family(back to the starving man ethics) or maybe it's simply a matter of "victimstance" and beleives that, if we allow for netting, than how is his behaviour any less ethical, than the man who buys it from superstore as a direct result of netting?
Ethics, and more importantly a mans belief system (think religion) has caused wars and civil unrest since the beginning of time, and will not be solved by (1) thread on a board.
Although the fact we can speak together on a board with out resorting to a brawl or war is a good start.

[bbronswyk2000]

The problem with ethics is that they are a luxury and more importantly, a matter of individual perspective, ethics are NOT simply a matter of black and white, otherwise it would be called a law. What some people people view as "sports fishing", others might view as an ignorant way of treating an animal, much the way, some view "trophy hunting"
When I speak of "luxury", if you are starving, and see a fish you can hit over the head, who would begrudge a man his sustinence? So the better along in society you are, the easier it is to hold to ethics as far as I can tell. If a man brings his entire family out to get thier "quota", is that ethical? I guess its a matter of perspective. If I am one man getting a fish for my freezer, and okay with flossing, I may look down on this mans behaviour, considering it unethical, yet here I am partaking in the same fishery, so what allows a man to harvest the river with his entire family, how does his conscience allow him to justify his ethics, maybe this man is the sole supporter of his family(back to the starving man ethics) or maybe it's simply a matter of "victimstance" and beleives that, if we allow for netting, than how is his behaviour any less ethical, than the man who buys it from superstore as a direct result of netting?
Ethics, and more importantly a mans belief system (think religion) has caused wars and civil unrest since the beginning of time, and will not be solved by (1) thread on a board.
Although the fact we can speak together on a board with out resorting to a brawl or war is a good start.

Very well said!!!!

[Rantalot]

well said!But people not all the morns come from SURREY

[Riverman]

That is true .I have even known the rare one to come from Hope

[Fish or cut bait.]

.....the morons come flying out of the woodworks when they open up the sockeye fishery down here.

I'm used to fishing sockeye up on the Skeena drainage, and have never really noticed a big influx of idiots on the river when sockeye is open up there.

It's a numbers game (compare the populations), rest assured there's just as many idiots up there.  They just blend in better  .
 
We need the voice of reason on what is ethical when fishing,  Someone call "PETA"

[Nervo69]

You know, I don't post very often but I had to "take the bait" on this one. Its a topic that I've been concerned about for quite a number of years. I'm not that old so I hope I don't sound old making these comments.
Not that long ago sport fishing on the Fraser River was, what I believe, to be truly that, a "sport". The idea of fishing as a sport still lives strongly among many of us as can be detected in the passion which with which many posts are written. For those of us that maintain this culture I think we all agree that the Fraser should have been left as a bar fishery (ie. plunking).
The legalization of snagging (what else can you call it!) through the Fraser "bottom bouncing" fishery has had a dramatic impact on river fishing in BC. Not only are we lowering ourselves to snagging as a means of "sport" fishing but there are more far reaching negative effects. It wasn't that long ago that we would report people with leaders over 36 ". Now we sell specialized gear at all the tackle stores to accommodate 20 ' leaders!  Why?
Remember being introduced to fishing by someone who ensured that you respected the resource? I do. Now think about how many people out there are being introduced to river fishing in the form of "bottom bouncing" today? They don't even know any better when they show up on the Vedder with the wrong gear and the wrong ideas. Its what they learned from the get go. How can we fault them? It's our fault for ever condoning this.
Yeah, maybe over time they will all come to realize that there is a better way but it could have all been prevented. Let's make the Fraser River a Bar Fishing (spin-n-glow or bait on bottom) only environment again. There is just so much wrong with 10 to 15 foot leaders? Don't you think?
The whole idea of this form of bottom bouncing is hypocritical. How can you tell someone that just learned how to be a great fisherman (snagger) on the Fraser that they now have to change gears and employ an entirely different mentality everywhere else they fish? It won't happen. People that start out in this mind set will always be looking to fill their creel, even if it is by flossing. There is a better way and we should get back to it.
They really aren't that hard to catch in the ocean. Its how we caught Sockeye before. Really.   
Just my thoughts.........................

[Fish Assassin]

Not everyone can afford a boat... My .02

[ynot]

i sold my boat when georgia st. went dead. i like flossing and so do thousands of  others. 130,000 out of 34 million taken by sports fresh and salt water big deal.get off your high horse. its LEGAL.

[alwaysfishn]

Nervo69......    You are sounding like my parents!

I don't know how old you are but I would guess you have played the odd video game or 2. As you know most of them are filled with violence.

I have never played them myself however all 3 of my son's play them on occasion. They are grown up and one of them is married. Although they play them they have never gone out into the public and exhibited the violence that the video games have. I watch TV on occasion. I know the difference between the fiction shown there and reality.

The point I'm making is that you need to give Fraser bottom bouncing fishermen the benefit of the doubt that they have the intelliigence to know the difference between a meat fishery and sports fishing. You and many people are being too tunnel visioned on this topic.

Yes there will be people that will take this knowledge and try and use it on other rivers. I for one would not hesitate to have a conversation with them. Not in a confrontational way, but an educational way. It's not a big deal!

On the positive side, look at the benefits. There will be more people getting invoved in the sport of fishing! This is essential in that the more people fishing the more the sport is top of mind and the governments of the day will do more to protect and promote the sport. The more people fishing the more there will be an awareness of the need to protect our environment. The more people fishing, the better the economic returns for the industry and the people involved.

You and others need to start looking at the glass half full rather than a half empty glass.....

[BNF861]

130,000 out of 34 million taken by sports fresh and salt water big deal.get off your high horse.

I'm curious where you got your numbers from?

The following was taken directly from dfo notice FN0774 posted September 3rd
http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/xnet/content/fns/index.cfm?pg=view_notice&lang=en&DOC_ID=127593&ID=recreational

"DNA analyses indicate that Late-run sockeye are the dominant run-
timing group in the marine assessment areas, with Summer-run sockeye comprising
a low proportion of the migratory abundance. The diversion rate of Fraser
sockeye through Johnstone Strait is presently estimated to be approximately
95%. The migration of sockeye past Mission has been lower over the past few
days, while the migration of sockeye past Hells Gate continues to be strong.
The estimated total catch of Fraser sockeye to-date is 9,594,000 fish.