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[jetboatjim]

--Sports Anglers contribute nearly $1.2 billion annually to BC's economy according to recent report on Go fish BC site.

the thing you dont think about is there are many more activitys that are less costly for the govornment to run, and are used by more people.
if you have ever been to a river/park  protest/ralley you would see there are many more campers,hikers ect....that use the resources.

fishing is a very small part of our economy.

[alwaysfishn]

A couple of truths, plain & simple. One, there is no such thing as flossing, it is just a fancy word for 'intentional snagging'. Two, intentional snagging is illegal. Anytime you wake up in the morning & head to the river with the INTENT on foul hooking fish you are a snagger, it has nothing to do with ethics. Three, contrary to popular belief & greed of the snagging masses ther will NEVER be a surplus of these incredible salmon.

Be a responsible angler & do the right thing, it's long overdue that snagging of our beautiful 'long run' Spring salmon be put down. These great fish deserve better. We as anglers should try to lead the way & not be part of the problem.  

I think you may need to re-read the regulations......   I've only read that a foul hooked fish may not be kept....

You must have a problem with natives and commercial fishermen who snag the fish with their nets then.....  

[alwaysfishn]

This is another problem this is causing and I feel why our opening for chinook opening was delayed this year. A number of people have predicted a while ago this type of activity would be used against the recreational angler.

http://www.chilliwacktimes.com/will+nets+despite+warning/3286649/story.html

I'd buy the natives argument if I saw them fishing selectively....

[alwaysfishn]

I have agree with you it is a dent in the bucket but because of it this is used as a leverage to keep us out of the river. I have said before the impact of the recreational angler in most cases is minimal in the whole scheme of things but we loose the argument the follwing statement when we have BB going on. If we were only bar fishing during the early part of the season, when the river is so turbid the success rate is very small. (Saying this the BB ing crowd take a lot of chinooks over the season, Scale Bar is a prime example but maybe once again it is a lot less than Ocean, F/N and commercial guys do and the recreational angler sure pours a lot more money into the economy, you would think the government would like this, especially with the HST now in effect. Right AF

Even now with conditions fairly good for bar fishing one bar over the weekend, with a fair number of anglers on it had no success while on the other hand one BB er was into 4 chinooks.  (Not the same bar)

Talk about another topic which is unfair. I was told a angler got a 79 cm fish, 2 cm over the size limit and it cost him $150 fine while F/N had a 12 hour opening, I saw one boat unload 38 chinooks into a tote with fish approaching 30 pounds, is this unfair to the recreational angler, I would say yes.

Is there an answer to all of this I donot think so but I feel we will now continue to loose ground in opportunities for salmon in a lot of fresh water rivers. Time to take up lake fishing, head to the ocean or as some say, take up golfing.

It is easy to make lots of comments like I have, but real concrete ideas are few and far between if any at all.

Great comments Chris (except for the HST shots....  )
The natives use the flossing issue to try and keep the sports fishermen off the river because they know it is a divisive issue in the sports fishing community. On the other hand if it wasn't the flossing issue, it would probably be something else.

I think a lot of fishermen confuse a meat fishery with sports fishing. In the hunting community there are the meat hunters and there are trophy hunters.... Unlike the sports fishing community, the hunting community doesn't have a problem with that.... Sports fishermen need to drop the holier than thou attitude and just accept that a meat fishery is just as ethical as a trophy fisheryl.

[skaha]

the thing you dont think about is there are many more activitys that are less costly for the govornment to run, and are used by more people.
if you have ever been to a river/park  protest/ralley you would see there are many more campers,hikers ect....that use the resources.

fishing is a very small part of our economy.

--never noticed there was a hikers licence or a wildlife photo fee that directly funds these activities. Not suggesting there should be as with fishing and hunting licenses government would take an unfair share for general revenue. I can hardly wait for the boaters license fee to become annual as well.

[clarki]

So this post bears on this discussion: http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=24486.0

Is dipnetting (a legal, sanctioned, method to harvest surplus sockeye) ethical?

Would dipnetting be ethical, and flossing, with a rod and reel, not?

[iblly]

Hmmm....Looks like my last post was deleted. Must have been my sarcasm.

Seems like theirs a pro-floss bias on this forum.

Flossed fish don't bite. Pretty simple stuff.

Never ceases to amaze me how people justify flossing. But hey it's legal so it's OK.

No wonder our fisheries are in the state they are in with these attitudes.

But hey I forgot flossing is a great technique for catch and release.

Learn something new every day !

Maybe someone could put together a youtube video explaining the proper way to floss sox!

Bluesteele

WOW...........hope your that ethical, moral, noble etc. in everything else you do in your lifetime.

[bluesteele]

That would be a triple NO... LOL  But hey who's perfect ?

[Stratocaster]

I think a lot of fishermen confuse a meat fishery with sports fishing. In the hunting community there are the meat hunters and there are trophy hunters.... Unlike the sports fishing community, the hunting community doesn't have a problem with that.... Sports fishermen need to drop the holier than thou attitude and just accept that a meat fishery is just as ethical as a trophy fisheryl.

To me the question of whether the fishery is ethical or not depends on whether you consider the fraser sockeye fishery as a recreational harvest or as a sportsfishing opportunity.  If the fishery was promoted to be purely a recreational harvest, then flossing would not be unethical.  It would just be another method of harvesting fish.  If you consider it a sportsfishery, then to me flossing would not be ethical.  The problem is that there is no clear distinction made between the sockeye fishery on the fraser and other fisheries in other rivers like the coho fishery in the vedder, therefore leading to the flossing method being used elsewhere.  Having experienced fly fishing for pinks for the first time last year on Fraser, if I had to make a choice as to which I would choose (flossing socks or fly fishing for pinks) it would be a no brainer for me.   Besides, smoked candiied pink salmon tastes great!

[alwaysfishn]

To me the question of whether the fishery is ethical or not depends on whether you consider the fraser sockeye fishery as a recreational harvest or as a sportsfishing opportunity.  If the fishery was promoted to be purely a recreational harvest, then flossing would not be unethical.  It would just be another method of harvesting fish.  If you consider it a sportsfishery, then to me flossing would not be ethical.  The problem is that there is no clear distinction made between the sockeye fishery on the fraser and other fisheries in other rivers like the coho fishery in the vedder, therefore leading to the flossing method being used elsewhere.  Having experienced fly fishing for pinks for the first time last year on Fraser, if I had to make a choice as to which I would choose (flossing socks or fly fishing for pinks) it would be a no brainer for me.   Besides, smoked candiied pink salmon tastes great!

I believe the Fraser fishery is a recreational salmon harvest, where surplus salmon are available for harvest by the non-commercial, non-native fishermen. Just like there are mesh size restrictions for the nets that are used by the "netting groups", there are restrictions to the equipment the sportsfishermen use. Just because a group of fishermen became creative in how they use the hook and line the law permits them to use, should not label them as unethical.

I also agree that flossing does not belong in a sports fishery!

Perhaps because many fishermen perceive the Fraser fishery as being a sports fishery is the reason that they strongly oppose flossing on the Fraser. Your suggestion of promoting the Fraser as a recreational harvest could help differentiate this fishery from the standard sports fishery. This could be a solution to educating the new fishermen to the fact flossing doesn't belong an a river like the Chilliwack, where the water is usually clear enough for the fish to see the presentation.

The question is "Who's responsibility is it to promote the Fraser fishery as a recreational harvest?"

As far as fly fishing for pinks, is it possible that some of the pinks get flossed?

[Stratocaster]

I believe the Fraser fishery is a recreational salmon harvest, where surplus salmon are available for harvest by the non-commercial, non-native fishermen. Just like there are mesh size restrictions for the nets that are used by the "netting groups", there are restrictions to the equipment the sportsfishermen use. Just because a group of fishermen became creative in how they use the hook and line the law permits them to use, should not label them as unethical.

I also agree that flossing does not belong in a sports fishery!

Perhaps because many fishermen perceive the Fraser fishery as being a sports fishery is the reason that they strongly oppose flossing on the Fraser. Your suggestion of promoting the Fraser as a recreational harvest could help differentiate this fishery from the standard sports fishery. This could be a solution to educating the new fishermen to the fact flossing doesn't belong an a river like the Chilliwack, where the water is usually clear enough for the fish to see the presentation.

The question is "Who's responsibility is it to promote the Fraser fishery as a recreational harvest?"

As far as fly fishing for pinks, is it possible that some of the pinks get flossed?

I used to have the perception that most of the fly caught fish on the Fraser were flossed, but my perception has changed.  I noticed that it did matter what type of fly you used    I can't say for sure that I didn't floss any at all, but having fished the rivers for almost 20 years now, I like to think I can tell whether I've flossed a fish or not.  In addition, our technique required short strips as opposed to drifting and swinging.  Almost all fish were hooked inside the mouth which would be difficult to achieve on a stripped fly.

[Jack Straw]

Sorry Always Fishing, I must have hit a nerve. Foul-hooking salmon, & fighting for the right to foul hook salmon is just plain stupid. It makes the rec-fishermen look like a bunch of spoiled, whining brats.

It has been common knowledge (since the mid-90's) that these fish aren't biting, they are being snagged...some new anglers are not privy to this info, so we must educate. Ignorance is bliss I suppose. The act of foul-hooking fish has always been illegal, the fact the poor Fraser River gets no enforcement does not make it OK.

Whichever method the natives use to harvest their fish is up to them, you see, they have a constitutional right to their river & their fish. If you are upset with native rights there are probably much better places to argue your points than on a fishing discussion forum.

Surplus, abundance & healthy stocks are just buzzwords made up by non-natives trying to justify their right to snag or foul-hook salmon. There will NEVER be enough fish to allow this unsporting, unfair meat fest to continue...too few fish, it's just that simple. 

[Jack Straw]

   I've only read that a foul hooked fish may not be kept....
So then shouldn't they all be released...as they are ALL foul-hooked

[alwaysfishn]

Sorry Always Fishing, I must have hit a nerve. Foul-hooking salmon, & fighting for the right to foul hook salmon is just plain stupid. It makes the rec-fishermen look like a bunch of spoiled, whining brats.

Don't worry, you haven't hit any nerves. I am not aware that any rec fishermen are fighting for the right to foul hook salmon. Flossing sockeye is a legal harvesting technique and if there was a problem with it, regulations would have been put in place years ago. If you re-read all of the flossing related posts, I believe the only whining you'll read is from folks like yourself. 

It has been common knowledge (since the mid-90's) that these fish aren't biting, they are being snagged...some new anglers are not privy to this info, so we must educate. Ignorance is bliss I suppose. The act of foul-hooking fish has always been illegal, the fact the poor Fraser River gets no enforcement does not make it OK.

I think most fishermen are aware that a sockeye is not biting and is being flossed. I have on several occasions witnessed a CO go down a row of bottom bouncing fishermen and only ask to see licenses and to see whether their hooks had barbs on them. No tickets were written for snagged or foul hooked fish.....  I may not be as smart as some people, but that indicates to me that the CO's had no problem with the legality of bottom bouncing. 

Whichever method the natives use to harvest their fish is up to them, you see, they have a constitutional right to their river & their fish. If you are upset with native rights there are probably much better places to argue your points than on a fishing discussion forum.

Show me one post where I have indicated that I have a problem with the natives constitutional right to catch fish. What I have a problem with is them selling fish that were caught under their food and ceremony openings!

Surplus, abundance & healthy stocks are just buzzwords made up by non-natives trying to justify their right to snag or foul-hook salmon.

Surplus, abundance and healthy stocks are terms that were made up by scientists and fisheries personnel.... I have no idea if they were non-native. 

There will NEVER be enough fish to allow this unsporting, unfair meat fest to continue...too few fish, it's just that simple. 

Are you aware of the inconsistency in your comments and fishing choices? You indicated in one of your earlier posts that your favorite fishery is the Thompson, chasing steelhead. I don't understand how you can participate in a catch and release fishery where the stock is down to the last few hundred. I personally won't participate in that fishery however I accept that you and others have the legal right to harass these fish.

Like it or not the sockeye fishery is legal and the techniques used to harvest the sockeye are legal. 

[alwaysfishn]

So then shouldn't they all be released...as they are ALL foul-hooked

Definition from the regulations booklet......
snagging (foul hooking)… hooking a fish
in any other part of its body other than
the mouth.

Most fish that are flossed are hooked in the outside of the mouth...  therefore by definition they are not snagged or foul hooked. Which is probably why no tickets are issued to fishermen using flossing to harvest their sockeye...