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[blaydRnr]

Beef/pork/poultry I eat em all ..Yum...growth hormones like those too 
I do tho only eat wild seafood and if at a restaurant will not eat seafood that isn't wild. No farmed salmon for me.

BTW I believe we should have a bait ban on the Thompson as well.(stir) 

But hey the rules say bait is OK. My personal ethics tho tell me to not use bait. Although for the record I have used bait on the T in the past 

Anything else you would like to know fire away and I will help you if  I can.

Nope, thank you... you've pretty much explained yourself and your stance on ethics and morals

[bluesteele]

Not sure why you keep quoting laws from the US. What do they have to do with how we catch fish in BC?

Maybe you can also answer why a 4 year study has been commissioned to understand the survival rates of flossed sockeye? Why study something that is illegal? 

My spin on what GOOEY is saying is.
Ethics and law are seperate. He is simply showing in other jurisdictions flossing is considered to be snagging. Their are many laws that are very different from area to area.
It is generally wise for one to have a more broad view of these issues. Rather than keep on hiding behind the DFO does nothing ,this is BC etc.. etc...
We can learn from others 
OR
Keep hiding behind our crappy vague snagging regulations. Ride it out to the end till their is no more meat for you to take .

Are all of the pro-flossers also ,pro-HST, pro ROR projects?

Perhaps the powers to be may like to know if flossing is having a negative impact on the fishery. With that said I think the study is a farce as it is very very limited in scope.
As well as not being a true example of how alot of fish are handled.

[blaydRnr]

Hmmm...flossers have the lowest impact on sockeye mortality??? Show me the science.
Enlighten me with what the relevant key issues are and maybe I can address them for you.

you don't need science, just basic mathematics...just look at the fishery notices and dfo bulletin board for commercial openings...they will provide you with the numbers. there's also public records of how many sockeye were harvested in the past few years in comparison to their forcasted numbers...i believe they even include how many were taken by FN.

the relevance is the issue of moral and ethics vs. legality... i feel to be ethical, one must practice this standard in all facets of their life...to pick and choose whenever its convenient is mere hypocrisy 

[blaydRnr]

My spin on what GOOEY is saying is.
Ethics and law are seperate. He is simply showing in other jurisdictions flossing is considered to be snagging. Their are many laws that are very different from area to area.
It is generally wise for one to have a more broad view of these issues. Rather than keep on hiding behind the DFO does nothing ,this is BC etc.. etc...
We can learn from others 
OR
Keep hiding behind our crappy vague snagging regulations. Ride it out to the end till their is no more meat for you to take .

Are all of the pro-flossers also ,pro-HST, pro ROR projects?

Perhaps the powers to be may like to know if flossing is having a negative impact on the fishery. With that said I think the study is a farce as it is very very limited in scope.
As well as not being a true example of how alot of fish are handled.

in the States, it's also illegal to have eagle feathers in your possession, unless you are FN practicing religion or a chieftain.
it makes a child a criminal if they pick one up from the ground...parents usually are held accountable and are hit with heavy fines.

[blaydRnr]

Not sure why you keep quoting laws from the US and other provinces. What do they have to do with how we catch fish in BC?

Maybe you can also answer why a 4 year study has been commissioned to understand the survival rates of flossed sockeye? Why study something that is illegal?  

i was wondering the same thing...i believe in the US it is ok to fish with barbed hooks, cull fish, and hold them by their gill plates prior to release.

i've had Americans tell me how strict our laws were compared to theirs...how ironic.

[bluesteele]

i was wondering the same thing...i believe in the US it is ok to fish with barbed hooks, cull fish, and hold them by their gill plates prior to release.

i've had Americans tell me how strict our laws were compared to theirs...how ironic.

YIKES....thats way off base LOL ...Might want to familiarize yourself with the laws of our close southern neighbors.

In alot of cases they have stricter fish handling laws then we do.
How about "“It is unlawful to totally remove salmon, steelhead, or Dolly Varden/Bull Trout from the water if it is
unlawful to retain those fi sh, or if the angler subsequently releases the salmon, steelhead, Dolly Varden/Bull Trout.”

No Hero shots with the wild steelhead    Not even going to get in on that one or gloves.

[iRobertO]

Hmmm, I don't want to be hated and promised myself to stop getting involved because I see how personal people take this, but I'll throw out something controversial..
Isn't a group of people arguing about ethics highly hypocritical considering 'sport fishing' (whether you believe in god or science) is a form of toying with living things for personal pleasure?
If you're religious, did god intend for you to torment his creatures? If you want to preserve nature, should you tire out fish, put a hole in them, bruise them up and send them on their way?
IMO, eating them is the only thing that sounds like a reasonable excuse..
I dunno..

Rob

[bluesteele]

Hmmm, I don't want to be hated and promised myself to stop getting involved because I see how personal people take this, but I'll throw out something controversial..
Isn't a group of people arguing about ethics highly hypocritical considering 'sport fishing' (whether you believe in god or science) is a form of toying with living things for personal pleasure?
If you're religious, did god intend for you to torment his creatures? If you want to preserve nature, should you tire out fish, put a hole in them, bruise them up and send them on their way?
IMO, eating them is the only thing that sounds like a reasonable excuse..
I dunno..

Rob

Hmmm...I hear ya but I must confess I enjoy toying with living things for personal pleasure as well as eating them. Cant I have my cake and eat it too. 

[BBarley]

Technically, catch and release is toying with creatures. Stressing them out, giving them a new piercing etc...
If you harvest what you catch, your just the same as a hunter.


This thread is a good one though, bag of popcorn and some pop. Watch sparks fly.

[bluesteele]

Technically, catch and release is toying with creatures. Stressing them out, giving them a new piercing etc...
If you harvest what you catch, your just the same as a hunter.


This thread is a good one though, bag of popcorn and some pop. Watch sparks fly.

Couldnt agree more. 

[blaydRnr]

YIKES....thats way off base LOL ...Might want to familiarize yourself with the laws of our close southern neighbors.

In alot of cases they have stricter fish handling laws then we do.
How about "“It is unlawful to totally remove salmon, steelhead, or Dolly Varden/Bull Trout from the water if it is
unlawful to retain those fi sh, or if the angler subsequently releases the salmon, steelhead, Dolly Varden/Bull Trout.”

No Hero shots with the wild steelhead    Not even going to get in on that one or gloves.

i was being sarcastic...however, i'm starting to feel like you're more concerned about adding to your post count than defending your stance.
if ethics is what you're arguing, then why bring in the Statutes of Law pertaining to the US??? what does their regs have to do with your morals and ethics???  c'mon at least quote standards pertaining to our own jurisdiction... this is getting ridiculous.

[Gooey]

Blaydrunner, you are so funny in a sad way.  you misenterpret just about everything.  I compared flossing to drug dealing on granville street because you said DFO doesn't enforce it, so it can't be legal.  I quoted several other sets of fishing regs because you say the average fisher in BC accepts flossing so its moral...I was just showing you the position most ofther juristictions take on snagging.  You say the US has lax fishing regs...you are absolutely incorrewct, as blue steel noted, you can't lift a fish out of the water if its not going to be retained.  You cant even NET a fish that is going to be released...do some reading please.

Another misinterpretation you have is that I hold some mallace to any one of you here that has an opinion different than my, if you see me and my dad on the bar, say hello, I'd be happy to shake your hand and sell ya a few betties...I'll even give you a deal!      is it hypocritcal to take the position I do... my ethics say no  .  In all seriosuness, I do floss the fraser for socks, I don't think it really falls into what Sports Fishing is, and I KNOW it has a negative impact on numerous other rivers and fisheries.  

Heck I snorkelled the capilano on sunday and pulled 300-400 yards of line, 8 betties, 20+ "capilano special", etc.  I used to get more crocs and blue foxes than betties and trebles...not the last couple years.  What this indicates to me is that there is a shift in fishing practices in BC.  I think that it stems from flossing.  Heck if flossing a sock is OK, why not just snag all your salmon? 

[Gooey]

Oh and by the way, maybe DFO is doing the sock study so that when the springs are running and socks are closed, they can close the entire river to flossing?!?  Remember a year or two back when DFO started to ask for the sporties to use 3 foot leaders when "targeting" springs when the socks were closed???  No one really paid attention...maybe they are looking for the data to support an all out closure to flossing outside a sock opening?

Bottom line is just because they are doing a study on it doens't mean they agree with the fishery nor does it confirm the fisheries legitimacy.

[blaydRnr]

Blaydrunner, you are so funny in a sad way.  you misenterpret just about everything.  I compared flossing to drug dealing on granville street because you said DFO doesn't enforce it, so it can't be legal.  I quoted several other sets of fishing regs because you say the average fisher in BC accepts flossing so its moral...I was just showing you the position most ofther juristictions take on snagging.  You say the US has lax fishing regs...you are absolutely incorrewct, as blue steel noted, you can't lift a fish out of the water if its not going to be retained.  You cant even NET a fish that is going to be released...do some reading please.

Another misinterpretation you have is that I hold some mallace to any one of you here that has an opinion different than my, if you see me and my dad on the bar, say hello, I'd be happy to shake your hand and sell ya a few betties...I'll even give you a deal!      is it hypocritcal to take the position I do... my ethics say no  .  In all seriosuness, I do floss the fraser for socks, I don't think it really falls into what Sports Fishing is, and I KNOW it has a negative impact on numerous other rivers and fisheries.  

Heck I snorkelled the capilano on sunday and pulled 300-400 yards of line, 8 betties, 20+ "capilano special", etc.  I used to get more crocs and blue foxes than betties and trebles...not the last couple years.  What this indicates to me is that there is a shift in fishing practices in BC.  I think that it stems from flossing.  Heck if flossing a sock is OK, why not just snag all your salmon? 

i think you've got me confused with another member i never mentioned anything about dfo not enforcing the regs....as i also stated, i was being sarcastic when referring to the US.

there's always negative impact when it comes to fishing...doesn't matter if it's commercial, first nations, or recreational.

i have no animosity towards you and i know you're a seasoned rod...however, i sometimes feel you have a tendency to play both sides of the fence when it comes to some issues.

[Gooey]

I can understand why you think i am playing both sides of the field....with flossing though I think you have to.  I don't think we can treat it as such a grey area anymore. 

I floss the fraser for sockeye have been out maybe 6 times in 20 years for springs while socks are closed.  It is a meat fishery not a sports fishery and i think everyone here acknowledges that.  Issue is this - DFO, the regs, and the average fisher treat the sockeye fishery the same as any other sport fishery...but hang on, didnt we just agree its not a sports fishery?!?

go snorkel the cap and pull some gear...you will see what I mean.  Someone earlier in this thread said he laffs when snaggers come on and floss the vedder (funny how they're snaggers on the vedder) and he laffs when they snapp off a bunch of expensive tackle....I get upset by stuff like that.  litters the river, ruins the run, and its not neccesary, whites and coho bite.  But flossing indoctrinates a mentality when you will get a fish regardless of whether or not they want to bite.  It promotes an expectation that you will be going home with fish, and it carries over to every other river with a vast number of anglers now a days.