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[alwaysfishn]

I think he meant salt and freshwater sports fishermen have taken 130,000 out of the 34 million.

[ynot]

yes we are talking sports.

[bbronswyk2000]

How old are you exactly? This flossing thing is not new. Its been going on for over 10 years.

[booters]

They using nets at the mouth and in the river to harvest tons of sockeye.
Me. us standing on a river bank casting with appropriate weight,a leader length and hook,barbless I might add to attempt to catch 2 Sockeye per day! Me , us cant control the hooking method if in fact the leader/hook drag through the depths and apparently floss the things. The tackle works for the caster/sportsmen ie license titlement. What are we supposed to use? You tell me/us.
Sure if you have a boat,commercial license and work that for a living and net your qouta fine,no problem with that but dint start slagging on us bank fisherman for catching 2 per day, 2 the next day whatever.
If you have found a alternative without using 8-10 ft leaders tell me,Im curious

[marbles]

Its the fiirst time this past week that Iretained fish by the flossing set up,I wasnt sure I would do it agian but I went out one more time since my first trip Its not the same as a fish chasing a lure or a bait but that doesnt make it wrong,Im also a hunter and with a clean opening will harvest a deer or bear moose ect for my family I loss 2  sockeye thery were close to shore and I fought them for 15 minutes it was awsome.I take great care in the way I harvest any of God's creatures and am greatful for it,many hunters choose only to bow hunt like my brothe in law,its more sporting to him and I agree but my method isnt any less humane or respectful Im enjoyinh a sockeye dinner tonight with my wife and kids 

[dennyman]

As has been stated before the Sockeye fishery is a harvest fishery. You catch your two fish and you get off the river. As far as a fishing method, it should also be used only during this type of fishery. Basically your 10 to 15 foot leader is being dragged through the water, and with any luck it goes through the fishes mouth and you have a fish on. Call it what you will it is basically a refined snagging method. You throw this rig out there, and when the Sockeye are running thick you stand a good chance of flossing one. However mix some Coho and Chinook into the water you are fishing you might be flossing those too.  With this type of fishing rig, there is no way you can target what you are going to catch.  Why do I point this out, because it seemed a broad analogy was being made to hunting here. In hunting you pick out your target whether that be moose, deer, what have you , you shoot it and dispatch it humanely and quickly.  A big difference in my eyes.

[burnaby]

Fishing is done primarily for sports and food.

Let's look firstly at sports. Envision this, you're hiking peacefully, enjoying nature at it's best before coming upon a hungry looking bear. After a 15 minutes chase the bear has you flat on your back. As you see the giant paw swing toward your head a last prayer quietly slips past your lips. On contact the bear roars out "Thanks for the chase, that was fun"; completes the pat on your head, and quietly walks away looking for the next "sports hiker". Sure was sporting fun for the dominate specie.

Food fishing, well, catch the fish, eat the fish, nuff said. Important point is to minimize the impact. Proper Flossing or enticing the fish to bite results in hook in the mouth and minimal damage in case the fish gets away. Intentional snagging can result in lots of injured escape fish, cruel and wasteful.

[alwaysfishn]

As has been stated before the Sockeye fishery is a harvest fishery. You catch your two fish and you get off the river. As far as a fishing method, it should also be used only during this type of fishery. Basically your 10 to 15 foot leader is being dragged through the water, and with any luck it goes through the fishes mouth and you have a fish on. Call it what you will it is basically a refined snagging method. You throw this rig out there, and when the Sockeye are running thick you stand a good chance of flossing one. However mix some Coho and Chinook into the water you are fishing you might be flossing those too.  With this type of fishing rig, there is no way you can target what you are going to catch.  Why do I point this out, because it seemed a broad analogy was being made to hunting here. In hunting you pick out your target whether that be moose, deer, what have you , you shoot it and dispatch it humanely and quickly.  A big difference in my eyes.

You are correct that hunting is more selective than flossing sockeye. The only non-selective hunting method out there is called poaching which is illegal. 

The hunting analogy was made to suggest that the sockeye fishery is a meat fishery. The hunter/fisherperson are attempting to catch/kill the prey as efficiently as possible using legal methods. Whether they enjoy doing it is irrelevant.

Ultimately it is food for the table. The only difference between the food that non-hunters/non-flossers put on their table is that someone killed the animal/sockeye for them....

[dennyman]

I think what gets people so entrenched on this subject,  is that folks get so defensive about it. If flossing stays on the Fraser River for Sockeye I don't have a problem with that. However, as a sports fisherman flossing is what it is,   as the weight does most of the work in this lining of fish. Does this make everyone feel better since the (snagging) word is not used.  Anyhow I am out of here, as in a week or so this will be a moot point on the Fraser, and maybe in another four years this subject will rear its ugly head to be discussed to death once again.

[red_tailed]

Flossing is flossing (ie snagging).  I see no difference between the guys snagging their 2 or 3 or 4 or more socs at pegleg or the guys up on the stave with their sturgeon gear snagging chums or springs.  They are 2 sides of the same coin.  If one form of snagging is illegal then all forms of snagging should be illegal.  As a quote goes that I live by, "those who don't know how to fish shouldn't disrespect a fish by catching it." 

[alwaysfishn]

Flossing is flossing (ie snagging).  I see no difference between the guys snagging their 2 or 3 or 4 or more socs at pegleg or the guys up on the stave with their sturgeon gear snagging chums or springs.  They are 2 sides of the same coin.  If one form of snagging is illegal then all forms of snagging should be illegal.  As a quote goes that I live by, "those who don't know how to fish shouldn't disrespect a fish by catching it." 

Your points would be valid if flossing was illegal as you suggest. However flossing is legal. More than 150,000 sockeye have been flossed by fishermen this year and I would suggest that no tickets have been issued for "snagging" the fish.

Although I hunt there are many folks out there that think it's wrong to do so. It's ok for them to have their opinions, however hunting is legal and I will continue to harvest the wild meat I enjoy eating. The anti-hunting group may say that I am disrespecting the animal by hunting and then shooting it but that doesn't make it wrong for me to do it. It's really just a difference in values. They have someone do the killing for them, I do my own.

Sockeye flossing is no different.....

[red_tailed]

actually I'm a hunter too.  It's just that my style is a little different than most.  While flossing is legal, the fact is that snagging is snagging.  It's just one style is different than others.  Since flossing is a legal activity (not just for sockeye), then where is line drawn for where a fish is hooked that makes the difference.  while flossing for sockeye and you hook a fish in the back, is that ok to keep.  You floss a fish in the gill plate, is that fine.  If while spin fishing I hook a spring or hatchery coho in any place other than on the inside of the mouth, trust me that fish is going back to finish it's journey (no matter how long or short it may be).  This is my stance.  It is what it is. 

[burnaby]

14 pages later once again proves human nature rules supreme. One's own action is ethical whilst opposing groups are seen as righteous or unethical. "IMHO" are up there with Sunday funnies, good for a quick laugh. Thank goodness civilized countries have laws.

[Gooey]

We all know that a fish that didnt bite the hook is snagged.  Snaggin is illigal but based on some pretty flimsy wording in our regs, a hook around the mouth is close enough duing sockeye season.  Flossing isn't legal, it just isnt enforced during sockeye.  Many people here know Marco, he and I shared a fishing budy in common.  That idividual was tickets for keeping a flossed coho at the tamahi...like I have stated before, its a lack of enforcement.   Its kind of like saying the speed limit is 120km on the #1 because thats what I drive and I have never been ticketed.  We all know not being ticketed doesnt make something legal.

But heres the thing, I saw lots of fish hooked in the back, belly, etc that were kept... they weren't even close to the mouth.  As Sterling documented in another post, wild coho were kept, steelhead, barbed hooks are being used, people double dip...this summer fishery of ours is truly a debacle.

[alwaysfishn]

Flossing isn't legal, it just isnt enforced during sockeye.  

Let's summarize........

- DFO allocates 5% of the sockeye catch to the sports fishermen.
- DFO knows that other than in the ocean the sockeye seldom bite.
- DFO knows that unlike your speeding analogy in the case of sockeye fishing in the upper Fraser everybody catches sockeye by flossing.
- On occasion CO's do stop by the popular bars and hand out tickets to those fishermen who are breaking the law, but never ticket them for using a long leader and bouncing betty.
- The fishing regulations do not state anywhere that it is illegal to use a long line and a bouncing betty.

........  and yet you say "Flossing isn't legal, it just isnt enforced during sockeye."  

Wow!