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[burnaby]

Good thing we have enforcement officers, lawyers and judges to interpret the law otherwise they would be lots of stoning occurring right on the beach courtesy of citizens playing judge, jury and executioner.

I too have heard stories of CO complaining fishermen are flossing on the Vedder but can do nothing when fish are hooked in the mouth.

Quote of the day to COs "Flossing isn't legal..."

[Gooey]

Does anyone disagree with this statement: if a hooked fish didn't strike the hook then it was snagged. 

I think most people here are educated enough to know that a flossed fish didn't strike the hook. 

There for if you believe the first two statements to be tru then a flossed fish is a snagged fish (due to the fact it didnt strike the hook) and we all know a snagged fish is illegal to retain based on the regs.

There are some diehard meathead flossers here so go ahead and poke holes in that if you can Burnaby and Always snagn.

[alwaysfishn]

Does anyone disagree with this statement: if a hooked fish didn't strike the hook then it was snagged. 

I think most people here are educated enough to know that a flossed fish didn't strike the hook. 

There for if you believe the first two statements to be tru then a flossed fish is a snagged fish (due to the fact it didnt strike the hook) and we all know a snagged fish is illegal to retain based on the regs.

There are some diehard meathead flossers here so go ahead and poke holes in that if you can Burnaby and Always snagn.

There are folks on this forum that disagree with your statement, those that agree with it and there are those that don't really give a d@mm because they are confident they are using a technique that is effective and legal as shown by the fact this fishery exists.

Your extrapolation that a flossed fish is a snagged fish under the definition of "snagged" in the regulations is just your opinion. It is not supported by the folks that enforce the regulations. While I respect your right to have an opinion, debating on the basis of your opinion is not much of an argument. Try using some facts.   

I'd also like to suggest that referring to us as "diehard meathead flossers" is childish, and does nothing to further your argument. 

[red_tailed]

The simple fact is that flossing is a legal form of snagging.  Just like the porn industry is a legal form of prostitution.  But like I asked earlier.  While flossing, when is it that you don't keep a fish.  If you floss a hatchery coho in the side of the mouth is that ok too.  It's a slippery slope, one that I take no part in. 

[iRobertO]

The simple fact is that flossing is a legal form of snagging.  Just like the porn industry is a legal form of prostitution.  But like I asked earlier.  While flossing, when is it that you don't keep a fish.  If you floss a hatchery coho in the side of the mouth is that ok too.  It's a slippery slope, one that I take no part in. 

Aww man! That makes two things I do that make me unethical. Damn!
Rob

[arimaBOATER]

If trollers seiners gill netters ... 1st nations nets laid up river from Hope...are taking millions of fish in a short period of time....with their methods then is it wrong if people floss them from their boat or river side
The question for me: Is flossing wrong as the  method only works IF there are alot of fish in the river....
The bottom line is will there be enough fish to get to the spawning grounds so future runs will have good numbers.
Surely if millions are going up river then will fossers hurt future stocks No they will not.
Eating a net caught Sock is no dif than eating a flossed fish.
But another question is how many of these fish get hooked in the body & escape but are badly injured
What happens if 3000 boats were to go on the river & 1000's of shore fishers & they floss away...& they decide to keep 20 fish each (daily) then it definately in my books would become wrong.
I'm not about to say flossers are doing a bad thing as long as they keep it to 2 fish per day.
Bottom line is... are enough fish getting to the spawning grounds???
We all know we can wipe out runs if we over fish by whatever method. Is flossing sports fishing...no it's like a small commercial method. Is it wrong...possibly ...it depends on each person to answer that question for themselve. For me being a christian to veiw porn is wrong to others who have no faith..to them it is not wrong.

[burnaby]

Why would we want to poke holes in your personal opinion. After all this is the Internet and you're entitled to your opinion. The only expert opinions that matters are the COs and the judges.

I've had COs stood watching while I passed a rod to a kid, then help them land it, remove the hook from the outer corner of the mouth without issues. NUFF said.

Does anyone disagree with this statement: if a hooked fish didn't strike the hook then it was snagged. 

I think most people here are educated enough to know that a flossed fish didn't strike the hook. 

There for if you believe the first two statements to be tru then a flossed fish is a snagged fish (due to the fact it didnt strike the hook) and we all know a snagged fish is illegal to retain based on the regs.

There are some diehard meathead flossers here so go ahead and poke holes in that if you can Burnaby and Always snagn.

[milo]

Whether the fish took the presentation willingly or unwillingly really doesn't matter. The moment the fish feels the hook in/at its mouth and the pressure of the line, it stops being a willing participant and does everything it can to free itself from the source of pain/discomfort.

Those of you who really want to be ethical about fishing, do the right thing and give up the sport and take up golf or any other sport that does not involve torturing a lesser creature for pleasure. In doing so, you can kill two proverbial birds with one stone: spare the fish from your sadistic trickery and make more room on the flow for those of us who can still stomach the fact that fishing is a bloody sport in which the fish are usually the bleeders.

[alwaysfishn]

Whether the fish took the presentation willingly or unwillingly really doesn't matter. The moment the fish feels the hook in/at its mouth and the pressure of the line, it stops being a willing participant and does everything it can to free itself from the source of pain/discomfort.

Those of you who really want to be ethical about fishing, do the right thing and give up the sport and take up golf or any other sport that does not involve torturing a lesser creature for pleasure. In doing so, you can kill two proverbial birds with one stone: spare the fish from your sadistic trickery and make more room on the flow for those of us who can still stomach the fact that fishing is a bloody sport in which the fish are usually the bleeders.

Excellent points!  But what if I still like the taste of salmon? 

[burnaby]

For an even smaller impact take up hiking using your bicycle for transport. Golfing does have a high environmental impact.

Whether the fish took the presentation willingly or unwillingly really doesn't matter. The moment the fish feels the hook in/at its mouth and the pressure of the line, it stops being a willing participant and does everything it can to free itself from the source of pain/discomfort.

Those of you who really want to be ethical about fishing, do the right thing and give up the sport and take up golf or any other sport that does not involve torturing a lesser creature for pleasure. In doing so, you can kill two proverbial birds with one stone: spare the fish from your sadistic trickery and make more room on the flow for those of us who can still stomach the fact that fishing is a bloody sport in which the fish are usually the bleeders.

[chris gadsden]

Only 7 more sleeps until this is over for the next 3 years on the Fraser River, with no pink salmon this year in the Chilliwack Vedder we will have limited flossing going on, we can only hope.

[Gooey]

This thread started out as "flossing:legal vs ethical"....the initial focus was on the way the fish was hooked and wether its lega/ethical. 

I would like to suggest that flossing is much more than just a method to hook fish...its become as much of a culture as anything else. 

As the opening drags on, I think we can see that in general, flossing brings a lot of things to sports fishing that true sportsmen and people that care about the resource cant support: fights, garbage, greed, waste, damage to endangered stocks, lack of respect for the resource, etc etc.  I guarantee at least one of these things happens everyday on every bar on the Fraser during the sockeye opening.

Is flossing ethical...I have to say NO...force feeding a fish a hook isn't ethical for a sportsfisher.  As a guy who wants to put some meat on the table when there are enough fish around, I can stomache snagging a few sockeye, but as a whole when I look at the fraser floss fishery, it is pretty disgusting and I don't think that anyone who cares about the envirnoment, endangered stocks, sports fishing culture, etc can not truely support a fishery like this.

[gordc]

For people who are concerned about fish stocks I don't understand why they get so caught up against the sport fishery.  Why not go after the commercial or native fishery.  Just a matter of perspective here but if you hope to make a difference that is where the significant impact lies.

For the elite sport fishermen on this forum that consider themselves so much holier than anyone else because they are so skilled that they don't need to floss fish... try spreading some of your knowledge and better be damn sure to never eat fish that may have been commercially caught etc.  It seems that most of the elite fisherman are really just pompous people who try to stroke their own ego under the banner of fish preservation.  Failing to be a humane individual who treats others poorly, as if they themselves are somehow better, is IMO equally as bad as a fisherman who abuses the resource.  There are many good hearted people with an environmental conscience who floss a few sockeye. 

I should say that I am totally against anybody leaving any kind of mess behind.  It is in this regard that I can appreciate people's desire for this fishery to end and the masses to go home.  There is no excuse for leaving your garbage on the river banks.  It's rediculous conduct and to see it so rampant is truly dissapointing.  My family has a hard rule that we always take more out with us than what we came in with... and not just fish!

I know some backlash will come but I felt the need to comment as I have had  one of the best years of my life with my boys on the river and we are not bad people because of it.  My Dad, who spent tons of time and money trying to get us (when we were kids at home) into salmon in the interior rivers with ZERO success, caught his first 6 salmon ever this year on the long weekend.  When he left to go back home he cried with emotion and elation.  He will probably never fish in his life again (just getting old) but he knocked another one off the bucket list. 

[Gooey]

we can only be responsible for our own house (ie sports fishers)...should one company not heli log (more ecologicvally sensative) because another one is clear cutting?  If the world opperated based on what the lowest common denomonator is then our planet would be even worse than it is now.

Under current management practices, I feel the fraser floss fishery is out of control.  Look at the mess on the rivers, the attitudes toward the resource and fellow fisher, the lack of knowledge leading to wild coho being killed...it all points to a fishery that needs to be better managed as it is out of control.

[alwaysfishn]

I know some backlash will come but I felt the need to comment as I have had  one of the best years of my life with my boys on the river and we are not bad people because of it.  My Dad, who spent tons of time and money trying to get us (when we were kids at home) into salmon in the interior rivers with ZERO success, caught his first 6 salmon ever this year on the long weekend.  When he left to go back home he cried with emotion and elation.  He will probably never fish in his life again (just getting old) but he knocked another one off the bucket list.  

Thanks for sharing that! I've talked to a lot of people that have been thrilled with the experience they've had individually, and as families. These are all good people who are so thankful for the opportunity to participate in the bounty that this year's sockeye run has provided. I've explained to them the fact that they are flossing the fish and that this technique is particular to the Fraser. There is absolutely no concern that they will be taking this knowledge to other rivers.

On the other hand the experience of catching fish has inspired them to go fishing more with their families. The investment they have made in the fishing gear is also an incentive for them to use the gear more.

Yes, there are the negatives, and if you choose to just look at those, then you'll be very strongly opposed to this fishery. On the other hand if you expand your thinking a little, I'm sure you'll see some of the positives of this fishery as gordc has written about so well....