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[salmonsturgeontrout]

you need to get a vacuum sealer, works awesome, meat and fish last way way longer in the fridge and freezer

[DragonSpeed]

As of August 24th,

Catch Accounted to date - 4,086,580
Potential Spawning Escapement - 5,891,820

Looks like 41% of the run to date has been taken out before even getting out of tidal water.
Combine that with the FN fisheries and the sportsfisheries above Mission and it's feasible to be looking at 45% of the run not even getting a chance to spawn.

Maybe throw a few more obstacles in the way like high water temperatures, low water flows and disease outbreak.

Ultimately the true story will be 4 years from now when this generations offspring HOPEFULLY flood the rivers again.

There - fixed that for ya

[SNapz]

http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/xnet/content/fns/index.cfm?pg=view_notice&lang=en&DOC_ID=127224&ID=all

This is freakin unprecedented. I don't remember them ever getting a 32 hour opening.
For those who don't know where this is...this is the area of the Fraser mouth and sometimes as far upstream as the Mission Bridge.

For crying out loud, they just got an 8 hour opening yesterday...but after this opening, the Fraser will be devoid of any salmon....period...until at least Sunday...and that's if they don't get another opening right away. The entire river is about to be raped like never before.

They did this back in 1994, and DFO admitted that they were one commercial opening away from obliterating the run.  16 years pass by and they've forgotten all about it....Complete morons.

Who made the recreational fishermen the only ones that should be able to fish? So the rivers will be slow for a couple of days. You have already had a couple of weeks to be able to fish. If you are so worried about the salmon stocks maybe you should let them all swim by as well. 

[gigahoo]

Is the fishing best at high slack or low slack?

[ynot]

looks like monday for another opening on the fraser.

[ricer]

Robert, Robert, Robert

Again, you need to understand all the facts.  I think sentimentality is more on your side than mine.  As i mentioned, the commercial fishing fleet as a whole has been greatly reduced.  All of my Dad's generation have sold their boats and/or licences to government buy back.  Others (younger folk) have turned their fishing vessels into fishing guides and tour guides.  My dad sold his licence years ago and now leases a licence if available.  Most of the remaining fishermen have dual licences so they can fish other areas such as barkley, rupert, rivers ect...  Still others have turned to shrimping, crabing and dragging for bottom fish.  Very few boats with fishing licences sit idle with fishermen chomping at the bit to fish the Fraser.  Fishing the Fraser is simply a bonus for these guys and recreational fishermen alike.

We all totally agree that the Fraser runs were mismanaged and overfished when runs needed to be protected.  My point was that commercial fishing properly managed does not alone destroy salmon stocks as so many of the recreational fisherman believe.  There are countless other factors (reread original post with this in mind). 

As to overspawning, true we do not know that too many fish can devestate a run or even cause a smaller run but we do know that there is an optimal amount based on the many factors that were mentioned by another, to maintain a solid return of salmon.  If people want every salmon possible to return then we must stop all fishing, rec, native, commercial, international (I forgot to mention that while fishing San juan, the canadians were allowed partial openings a few days a week while our southern brothers fished 24/7 with monofilament deep and long gillnets - they are catching our fish). 

I only hope to help give information to the discussion and bring some insight that many have not heard or realized.  I think some need to ask themselves why they react so strongly to this information instead of adding it to their understanding of this very complex issue.  There are no simple answers and it is not an exact science.  I love to fish - recreationally - I am an avid fly fisherman and i catch and release 99% of the fish i catch - mainly trout.  I refuse to sit in lineups and "catch" sockeye but i love to fly fish for pinks.  I have nothing against flossers and have done it myself - once.  I love fish and my sentiment is to the health of the Fraser river....but i can smell ignorance a mile away!

[ricer]

  25 million returning salmon - this is declining?

and...  do you really think that the Fraser is the only source of fish in our province?

Anyways, I am done, this tires me out and sometimes i think guys like Robert never want to listen or consider reason and they are sitting there laughing away as the hook me into another discussion - best catch of the day right

But it was fun anyways.

[Gooey]

Ricer, can you drop me an email, I'd like to chat offline.
thanks
Geoff


PS - I have fished 5 or 6 days now...my freezer is pretty full of vacume packed socks and the neighbors have all had some to so anyone who thinks 4 a day is needed...I'd have to say thats over the top.

[skaha]

I guess if we were a little more focused on sustainablility, there might be a little more support. The "good old days", were not really so good for the enviroment, especially in forestry, maybe what they meant to say was, if you werent so worried and would stop watching us and telling us about the environment and sustainability, we could really make some money here. I have been involved with forestry, and know first hand the devestating consequences of poor logging practices.
The other point I want to make is...if you could only work 3 hrs out of 4 yrs...is that really the industry you want to work in? Truely, I dont care how many generations you came from that were involved in it, maybe if our grandfathers had paid a little more respect to this fishery, we wouldnt be in the trouble we are in now, just like forestry.Pillaging a resource until there is nothing left of it, is not sustanability in my books, I could be wrong, but I bet 100 million cod would argue other wise.

--I'm sure the commercials don't sit around doing nothing waiting for this fishery it is just one portion of their  year and as others have pointed out they do many other jobs with their boats to earn a living.


---sorry I didn't explain myself better, I don't think there where any  good old days... I think there was a glimmer of hope in the mid to late 70's where forest management was attempted but would agree that industry won the battle in getting government to sell us out on sustainable forest management. I don't have any love for the big name environmental groups, either that now seem to have their focus on raising funds and supporting popular causes rather than doing meaningful work.

--My point mainly is that forestry and fisheries ... should and could be sustainable if managed  with more thought....and that we could and should come to a concensus agreement on allocation for all  us to get our piece of the pie and not begrudge other legitimate users from their fair share when enough fish are available to sustain the population, also at an agreed upon level.

--I am astonished that after so many years of so called scientific study that we cannot better predict the run sizes thus at least give us a chance at setting some management goals.. Either they  have the ability and don't want to tell us the sad state of affairs or we need better funded and prepared practitioners.

[ricer]

I was doing some figuring today and really, in terms of this country, commercial fishing is not old and recreational fishing for sockeye is practically new.  My Great grandfather started fishing in 1907, by 1914 there was a significant Fraser fleet but they fished with sails and hand pulled in short nets and could only fish slack water tides (approx 4-8 hours of any given 24 hour period).  By the 1950's the drum and hydrolics was in full force and the fleet grew.  By the 70's the fleet in BC was huge and boats could gillnet and troll anywhere they were able to get to when opened.

In other words recorded fishing is only about 100 years old and DFO/scientific study/management is even younger than that.  That means any given 4 year cycle has only run 20 -25 times over this period.  It really is amazing that this years return is the largest on record since 1914 and it is fair to say that prior that the runs must have naturally been on average lower than that - We must give the managers some credit and some leway as they are always learning as well.

RECREATIONAL fishing for sockeye is only 10-15 yrs old on the Fraser.  I would like to hear from those who have fished longer (especially flossers).  That means I would guess that most people who recreationally fish for sockeye have only done so over the last 8yrs or so and this really is only 2 cycles!!  That makes it difficult for people to comment with validity.  I imagine most of those people wouldn't have given a thought to this issue until they started fishing for themselves.  What is reported in the media (as is the case for most things) is not always fact based and unbiased.

I think we can all say that there is lots to be learned and there are lots to be positive about. 

[Robert_G]

Ricer...you always fail to respond to the bycatch issues.
Perhaps you could explain why there are no Skeena Steelhead in July (commercials are fishing during this time) anymore.
Perhaps you could explain why the last 3 years ( no commercial opening) have seen really good early coho on the Vedder.
This year the early Vedder fall Coho and Springs will probably be poor.

[arimaBOATER]

32 hr opening !!!!!!!!!

My guess is these commercial guys & possible gals will be preparing their boats & nets alot of hrs before that...then as it's 32 hrs they will be fishing most of that time..& unloading etc... Like that means possibly alot of these folks will be up for 40 hrs or more with NO SLEEP !!!
Kinda crazy for one's health esp if they have a little bit of a weak heart...
Guess they will be drinking alot of caff drinks coffee cokes etc...

Then there is the concern of safety on the water...& operating a boat etc... currents tides winds rock jetties docking in crowded ports...
Side note ...now that the Esso Marine Station is closed down in Steveston....it must be great to be the owner of the Chevon in Steveston Harbour !!!
But seriously they should space out the openning abit...say every 3-4 days & 6 hr openings say at the proper tides as Ricer mentioned when the fish suddenly appear in numbers to be caught in the drift nets.  32 hr opening doesn't seem to make much sense to me.

[ricer]

Are you fishing again Robert?
I totally agree with your comments on bycatch but that isn't exactly what we have been discussing.  But since you bring it up the fisheries have "tried" to manage this as well by shutting down the commercial fishing when the bulk of these runs begin which is usually when the Chum salmon begin their migration as well.  Much to the complaints of the old time fisherman as my Dad would say "I used to fish this river 4 days a week 10 months of the year".  That ended in the 1980's.  I have been out every opening so far with my dad (in the Fraser) and no coho have been caught and only 3 springs.  This year I am not so sure they will with all the salmon coming up so late.  Usually this run is almost done by now.  Hopefully the coho and springs are also a little late but i have heard of the rec fishermen doing quite well.  I don't fish the vedder (too crowded for me)  how have the runs of coho/steelhead/and springs been over the years previous the last 3.

What i would worry about is if they open the straight to seine fisherman.  

It was amazing out on the mouth yesterday.  We were fishing by the lighthouse with fish jumping everywhere and we were only getting 10 a set.  We headed up river (a mile below garry point) when the tide began to slow and all finally had our biggest set of the day 250.  After that we caught another 100 (for 4 sets) and went in for the night.  When the tide is running our nets are virtually sideways only going down about 5 feet.  The seines will have no problem coraling all those fish.  They will catch 20-50 thousand to our 500!  That is why they haven't fished in the straight for decades!

I can't comment on the Skeena because i don't know much about that system other than it was strong but had a weak run last year.  I also know from watching my fishing channel that if you want to catch coho, and steelhead that is the place to go!

If you want to comment on the Thompson - commercial has been closed in the mouth when they run for over 30 yrs.  We have NEVER nor has any other fisherman in the Fraser that i know of, caught a steelhead.  They seem to run a different route than we fish.  However, i can't say the same for commercial in san juan or johnstone straights -  i have no idea about those catches since we fished that in the 80's and early 90's and we never caught one that i can recall.  Again, they run the same time as the coho so that has been shut down for decades aside from a few short chum and pink openings

[ricer]

arimaboater

we came in and slept at 11:00 went out again at 6:00 for 35 fish and came in again to sleep and will go out again at 12:00.

These guys used to do this all the time and most know the river like the back of their hand.  it is the sporties running around after dark that have us a little worried.  I say a 12 ft with no lights running in from the mouth at dark!  That to me is crazy! 

However, we have all been saying that we liked the short openings on optimal tides as well.

[Rodney]

Ricer, if we want to buy sockeye caught in this opening directly from your family instead of from the Steveston dock (crowd, hard to know which openings the fish were caught from), is it possible?