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[alwaysfishn]

We don't actually get any say in the governments decisions once they are in power. Other than polls, we also can't show our support or lack of it for any decisions they make until the next election. And the only info we have to go on for an election is their track record and pre-election promises and platform. The greatest anger with GC and the Liberals seems to be their broken promises and phoney parts of their "liberal" platform.

Neither does any other voter in a democratic government. Can you imagine the chaos if every decision went back to the voter? And what about the voters that still didn't agree with the decision, how would you make them happy?

In a democracy we elect a leader that we hope, believe, expect to make decisions we agree with. If they make decisions we don't agree with we can try vote them out in the next election but only if the majority of the voters agree with us. 

[burnaby]

Have you been fishing out of the country for the past 10 yrs. There is no imagining for anyone literate, Novabonker stated facts that you're trying to debunk with rhetoric. Asking someone to "get on with life", trying to ridicule their post is rather childish, come on, you're above that.

Contribute to the community, Post some facts, pro or con, doesn't matter. Anything is better than Assassinating another member's post. NUFF SAID.

HAND  

A few months ago I was thinking that one benefit of Campbell resigning would be that Novabonker would be able to stop posting about all the "lies" he imagines he's heard. Unfortunately Campbell's resigned and we're still seeing the same posts.

You gotta get over this Novabonker, and get on with your life! 

Go fishing! Maybe bonk a couple of fish while chanting liar, liar..... 

[ali2pali]

he's a politician, 'nuff said.

[alwaysfishn]

Have you been fishing out of the country for the past 10 yrs. There is no imagining for anyone literate, Novabonker stated facts that you're trying to debunk with rhetoric. Asking someone to "get on with life", trying to ridicule their post is rather childish, come on, you're above that.

Contribute to the community, Post some facts, pro or con, doesn't matter. Anything is better than Assassinating another member's post. NUFF SAID.

HAND 

I appreciate you jumping to defend Novabonker, although I've seen him very capable of defending himself.....  Calling someone a liar when you know they won't have the opportunity to respond, in my mind is not cool!

Let's just chalk my post up as written in defense of Mr. Campbell, who probably won't be writing a post in his own defense. 

[Novabonker]

I appreciate you jumping to defend Novabonker, although I've seen him very capable of defending himself.....  Calling someone a liar when you know they won't have the opportunity to respond, in my mind is not cool!

Let's just chalk my post up as written in defense of Mr. Campbell, who probably won't be writing a post in his own defense.  

AF -  simply put- show me where I'm wrong, please. I'm not. The things I posted are the facts, not imagination or lies. Facts.Tell me there not. GC is welcome here I think- In fact, I'll write an email to him inviting him right now with a link.
It's pretty sad to just accept lies and figure that's OK. I don't and i figure the biggest part if the problem is those that do.
Tell me AF- How do you feel about the Basi - Virk payoff? Six million AND they get to keep all their properties and assets. All while legal aid to the poorest has suffered constant cuts.

[dennyman]

Well now we get to see the true character of the man, when the chips are down.  The classy thing to do would have been to make the announcement, appoint an interim leader and ride off into the sunset.  But no, now we hear that Gordo is going to hang in there another six months to give the Libs a chance to elect another leader. Yeah right!!!  If you read Michael Smyth's editorial in the Friday Province, Gordo is a control freak who has gone out of control. Come hell or high water he is going to ram through all the things he went over in his infomercial to the people of B.C..  Hello Gordon Campbell, what part of I resigned do you not understand. This reminds me of that episode a few years back on Seinfeld, when George quit his job on Friday.  Over the weekend he realizes what a dumb move that was and goes back on Monday to his  old job and telling everyone that it was a joke and he did not mean it.  If Gordo is trying to pull the same stunt on the people of this province shame on him.  The people of this province deserve better, and he should fold up his tent and shuffle off with his gold plated pension into retirement.

[Novabonker]

Ah yes AF - The pension lie- Remember that whopper? How he abolished the MLA pensions, railing about how rich the waste of taxpayer dollars was? Greed jumped up and said "Public service is a sacrifice! We sit a whole 45 days a year and that deserves a fat pension plan!"Now the poor man will have to scrape by on a measly (indexed) $100,000 plus a year. Maybe he can get one of those 6 dollar an hour training wage jobs.You know the ones, where you can get called in for 2 hours.Yessir, 12 bucks and then you get to pay for transportation there. Should leave a 5er if your lucky.Stick around sonny, work hard and you'll go up to 8 bucks an hour. That's 16 bucks, but you still get to pay a minimum of $2.50 each way to earn that 16. Then you might go home with enough to buy a meal or 2;hope you like mac and cheese, noodles and hamburger - when you can afford it.But at least you'll go to sleep at night knowing Gordo is comfortable.I wonder if he gets a few bones from his stint as mayor? You see , by the Liberals own admission, one in four families in BC get a rebate on the HST- Translation- one in four lives in poverty during our golden decade. But raising the minimum wage and allowing our lowest earners just a bit of dignity would bankrupt a whole bevy of small business. Never mind how ridiculous it is to operate that tight that you'd go under paying some fellow human being barely enough to sleep inside and have a meal in their belly.
You're right - it isn't "cool" to call someone a liar. I just need to point out the facts, and he condemns himself.

(Still haven't got a reply from the email invite.)

[troutbreath]

Gorden Alwaysfishn

[alwaysfishn]

...........  You're right - it isn't "cool" to call someone a liar.

See there is something we both agree on!  

I like that quote. Do you mind if I use it in my signature line?   

[Dogbreath]

Hello Gordon Campbell, what part of I resigned do you not understand.

The man is a disgrace even here in a province full of flaky politicians.

[burnaby]

GC has every opportunity to defend himself, as a matter of fact he has more opportunity than everyone here combined.

As for your defense of GC start anytime. Thus far you haven't posted anything, not even good opinion. Stating the facts is the best defense, otherwise it is just cheap talk. We're waiting so post away.

I appreciate you jumping to defend Novabonker, although I've seen him very capable of defending himself.....  Calling someone a liar when you know they won't have the opportunity to respond, in my mind is not cool!

Let's just chalk my post up as written in defense of Mr. Campbell, who probably won't be writing a post in his own defense. 

[Novabonker]

See there is something we both agree on!  

I like that quote. Do you mind if I use it in my signature line?  

By all means, but use it in the post where you disprove my statements where I showed Campbell to be a purveyer of cattle scat.But in the meantime, I'm waiting with bated breath for your analysis on the Basi - Virk payoff.
Here's a read for your morning coffee:
http://www.straight.com/article-356654/vancouver/we-dont-need-another-incurious-premier-gordon-campbell?page=0%2C0

[alwaysfishn]

Here's a read for your morning coffee:
http://www.straight.com/article-356654/vancouver/we-dont-need-another-incurious-premier-gordon-campbell?page=0%2C0

Thanks Novabonker! I read the article, here's what I picked up.  Looks pretty good to me.   Sometimes I wonder why we argue?  

burnaby: The writer that Novabonker linked to provides a much better defense of the Campbell government than I ever could. Thanks again, Novabonker.

"By the time Campbell became premier in 2001, he had adopted a mindset that the government was often at the root of society's problems. Therefore, it had to be diminished."  I like that about him!

"One of his first actions as premier was to introduce $2 billion in annual personal tax cuts and another $1.5 billion in annual corporate tax cuts. In conservative circles, that's called "starving the beast": leave the government with less money so it's incapable of doing much."  I like that about him!

"He never told anyone before the 2001 election that he was going to cut personal income taxes by 25 percent. In the last election without consulting finance ministry staff, he suddenly promised to eliminate the small-business tax by 2012. It was another way to starve the beast. Last week in one of his final acts as premier, he announced that he would slash personal income taxes by another 15 percent. Again, this was done without any public discussion beforehand. I don't have any problem with lower taxes!

"Campbell diminished the government’s role in our lives in other ways. He turned over hospitals' food service, laundry, and janitorial work to private contractors, again with no advance consultation." Government should be involved in setting policies, not running businesses.

"That wasn’t the only example. Campbell sometimes wouldn’t approve new major health facilities unless they were financed and built by the private sector. He also refused to give TransLink any money to build a new rapid-transit project unless it was turned over to a private company to build, finance, and operate. In addition, he wouldn't construct major roads and bridges unless they were created through public-private partnerships."  He's right, government shouldn't be involved!

"Campbell went further with B.C. Rail, selling the assets to CN Rail" I agree with that decision!

"In the education sphere, he didn't come close to fully funding cost increases downloaded on school districts. Because trustees have no authority to tax, they were forced to downgrade public education, which made private schools more appealing." Unfortunately in education as in health care the upper management bureaucracy cut workers jobs instead of their own jobs and then blame the results on the government!

"Meanwhile, postsecondary students were forced to pay a much higher proportion of the univerities' overall costs because Campbell froze funding on a per-student basis. That's what happens when you starve the beast." When you charge for something it ends up being worth a whole lot more to you than if you give it away for free! I have college age kids and I don't have a problem with them paying more for their education as they have a lifetime to pay that back. Somebody has to pay for it, why not the person who benefits?

"When it came to social services, Campbell introduced draconian cuts to welfare after the 2001 election. This was designed to make poor people less dependent on the government." People should be more self sufficient and less dependent on government.

"He also refused to raise the minimum wage beyond $8 an hour, ensuring our lowest-income workers were the poorest in Canada."  And in the process created jobs that otherwise wouldn't be there!

"Campbell provided "some of the greatest tax cuts in history to low-income earners."  Why is that bad?

"What were the consequences of Campbell's zeal to cut taxes and shrink government? He contributed to a growing disparity of wealth in this province. The rich were able to keep a much larger share of their income. This encouraged a proliferation of luxurious restaurants, upscale vehicle dealerships, and luxury condominiums in Vancouver. He also boosted the prosperity of the upper middle class, including many media executives and senior journalists." Without the rich investors, there would be fewer jobs for the low and middle class and there would be more poverty. What the writer suggests are consequences, I suggest are benefits!

"Some of these costs of P3s could have been prevented had the Ministry of Finance borrowed the money for these projects.That's because governments can obtain loans at lower interest rates than the private sector." Paying for services out of cash flow is much better than using debt! High debt is why the US economy is in such trouble!

"Only in the past couple of years has the B.C. Liberal government demonstrated any real interest in increasing the number of nonprofit housing units. Campbell's preferred option for addressing the housing crisis has been to introduce rent supplements, which puts more money in the hands of landlords." If the landlords don't get extra money they won't build more units of low income housing!
 
"Campbell often said that if you left more money in people’s pockets, they would spend it on goods and services, thereby stimulating the economy. And, he said, cutting corporate taxes would attract investment, creating more jobs. This was the mantra during the Campbell years. It’s a simple message that has considerable appeal." He's right!

"Sometimes, the public saves its tax cuts or spends it on vacations outside of the province. Moreover in tough times, the beneficiaries of tax cuts might just stuff these funds under their mattress because they're scared out of their wits. This reduces the velocity of money flowing through the economy, thereby undermining growth. Sometimes, the super-wealthy don't spend all their money because it would be too time-consuming to do so. Giving them more tax cuts loses its effectiveness after a while. Regardless of how much money consumers had in their pockets, they sharply cut spending after the collapse of Lehman Brothers, a major Wall Street bank, in the fall of 2008." What? Should we legislate how, where and when people spend their money???

"Campbell showed a remarkable lack of curiosity about the value of investments in the arts. It's a proven way of creating employment at a far lower price than a roof on a football stadium or a superfluous convention centre." That's just left wing crap!

"It's clear that Campbell likes his economics to be kept simple. Investment is good. Government is bad." And the problem with that???

[Novabonker]

Skated right past the other post AF? Again, you fling dung at me for pointing towards outright lies-but "Calling someone a liar when you know they won't have the opportunity to respond, in my mind is not cool!"
I posted facts- I'm waiting patiently for you to prove me wrong, any indication that Campbell wasn't a baldfaced liar- but you can't, because I posted fact. And the facts are plain- Campbell is and was spraying the province with fibs. He's been proven to be nothing but a common liar and charlatan.The sickest part of the whole thing is people, granted only 9%, still support disingenuous slimeball politicians and figure them to be just ducky.What kind of comment does that make on our society when tax cuts trump honesty and a little bit of caring for the most vulnerable?


Your hero at work:
Seniors- Net loss of affordable housing, couples split up after over 50 years of marriage.Read that article about the senior dieing from an infection in his leg? Overworked and understaffed senior's care homes. What a great way to treat the people who built the province. Great accomplishment Gordo!
Children in poverty- Still leading the pack there, despite 9 years to work on the problem. So the solution is cuts to funding, while cutting taxes so greed can displace empathy. Give everyone a tax cut! That'll fix it!Great accomplishment Gordo!
Minimum wage- Lowest in the country with a 6 dollar an hour rip off training wage.2 hours minimum at $6, maybe 8. Pay your bus fare and work for free almost.Great accomplishment Gordo!
1 in 4 gets an HST credit, meaning one in four lives at or below the poverty line. Boy, that's something that makes my chest swell with pride.Another tax cut!( Great idea when you're running a deficit)Great accomplishment Gordo!
Ruin of the river- 33%hydro increase to pay off long term contracts paying well above market rates. The lies were thick for the justification. But they were just lies.Great accomplishment Gordo!
Six million to defend Basi-Virk, but deep cuts to legal aid for those most unable to afford a lawyer.Not even bothering to go after the assets and properties.Tip of the iceberg maybe?.Great accomplishment Gordo!

 I can post a lot more about the carnage and collateral damage if you want, but I just want you to prove I'm wrong about him being a liar.I'll even say please. But something tells me GC will get re-elected before that happens .

And here's another myth dispelled about our "prudent" government:

[alwaysfishn]

You know Novabonker, it's best that we agree that we disagree and leave it at that.

You are so entrenched in your views of Campbell that you can't see how this province has prospered as a result of his direction. Just look at the article you asked me to read. It is full of positive stuff about how he has benefited this province yet you only saw an article full of negatives. 

I won't even get into the Basi / Virk thing because you are convinced there is a conspiracy there..... even though it is fact that these guys have taken bribes before. As far as the "6 million payoff", there was no payoff. They were entitled under our judicial system to have representation. I don't like it, but it's how our system works.

While I and others share your concern for the poor, the aging and ailing in this province, we also realize that we can't afford what it would cost to create a perfect world.

Was Campbell perfect? of course not! but He's resigned. It's over. Get over it!
The next leader/ government will have their flaws as well. Save some of your disdain for them because they won't be perfect either.