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[alwaysfishn]

Jon,

  How can someone be an activist and a scientist at the same time???

Aquapaloosa, I'm amazed at how you take an unfounded stab at Alexandra Morton, and when caught (by Jonhill) you change your tact.... Similar to a lot of politicians I've observed....

I have no doubt that she could do both, however the perception of her science would be biased by a person's political leanings. In addition political parties have their own agenda's, which may be in conflict with what is best for the salmon.

That could effect the effectiveness of her campaign.

[skaha]

--  "I have no doubt that she could do both, however the perception of her science would be biased by a person's political leanings. In addition political parties have their own agenda's, which may be in conflict with what is best for the salmon".

-- I believe the bias would be in the choosing of areas of study rather than the scientific integrity of the study... If you use poor science...eventually you will be found out and the the short term gain will be erased as well as any other good work done.

--I do not know Alexandra personally... I have of course read some of her many articles on salmon.

--My suggestion... run as an independent or maybe GREEN which would allow for more freedome and if she got in as a Green she would get more national exposure of HER views rather than just those of the parties.

---Just ask Jenny Kwan about freedom of speech... she was often quoted, even gave some of her own views when she was one of two sitting MLA's but as we know that all changed.
---To add balance to the teeter totter... Rafe... still claims you can be an environmental advocate and a Socred... 
 

 

[Schenley]

Unfortunately there are hundreds who care less about wild salmon that will see her as a single-issue candidate.  A strong NDP candidate without "baggage" has a much better likelyhood of defeating MP John Duncan, who is well liked by town councils, many business operators and those in the fish farm industry.

Alex is doing a great job where she is---- I hope she doesnt change now



And the worst thing she could do is to run as a Green or Independent... that would suck votes away from the NDP, which does have a chance of a win

[skaha]

--If the NDP loves her views so much and feel they must defeat John Duncan they don't have to run a candidate against her!
--I don't live in the riding thus cannot comment specifically but being well liked by town councils and many business operators may be a plus but it is still one vote per person so obviously others in the area must like him as well.

[aquapaloosa]

Her issues would likely be hand picked...like her seines.

I admit that this does come across a bit as a "drunk post'.  I assure you I was not irrationally posting drunk.  It is a bit of an insider comment that most will not understand but for some, the statement is very clear. 

Aquapaloosa, I'm amazed at how you take an unfounded stab at Alexandra Morton, and when caught (by Jonhill) you change your tact....

Unfounded in your opinion, caught,  call it what you like.  Jon is one of the few that would know what I was even talking about which is brings me to this point.  Most people to not understand the debate yet hold strong opinions promoted by "activist science" through media and private funding. 
For one to be amazed suggest to me that one is unaware that there is 2 sides to the debate.

Changed tact,  well i just will not back it up and neither can jon.

I agree that she would do best with the green party. 

[adams river]

If there is any subjectivity to the selection of a juvenile for lice enumeration, it is extremely miniscule and negligible. The above procedure is a way to make sure the fish remain alive after the lice enumeration, rather than using DFO protocol which kills all juveniles sampled.

A subsample of juveniles are scarificed only when required for further diagnostic work which cannot be done when the fish are alive.  DNA samples, scales and lengths can be obtained from the juveniles without killing them.  It is not DFO protocol to kill all juveniles sampled.  I have read Dr. Beamish's methodology and I suggest you do the same.

[jon5hill]

A subsample of juveniles are scarificed only when required for further diagnostic work which cannot be done when the fish are alive.  DNA samples, scales and lengths can be obtained from the juveniles without killing them.  It is not DFO protocol to kill all juveniles sampled.  I have read Dr. Beamish's methodology and I suggest you do the same.

A joint sampling team consisting of industry, independents, and DFO were doing sampling while I was at the Salmon Coast field station in the Spring of last year. Their sampling protocol involved killing every fish by putting them alive into sampling bags and onto ice. This is the sampling protocol is that I am referring to, and it's my understanding that the DFO was pushing for this methodology over hand lens lice enumeration because they wanted to be able to isolate the individual life stages of the ectoparasites (Leps and Caligus) to a higher resolution under dissection microscope.


What I posted earlier was not a generalization of DFO protocol, but a specific case related to sampling juveniles in the field for lice enumeration in the Broughton Archipelago.

[aquapaloosa]

If there is any subjectivity to the selection of a juvenile for lice enumeration, it is extremely miniscule and negligible. The above procedure is a way to make sure the fish remain alive after the lice enumeration, rather than using DFO protocol which kills all juveniles sampled.

  I suspect that this is jon's independent observations and i see it as a prime example of why activists do not make good scientists.  This is not a unfounded stab at industry, independents and dfo scientists, it simply is not true.  I'd call that "caught".

[jon5hill]

  I suspect that this is jon's independent observations and i see it as a prime example of why activists do not make good scientists.  This is not a unfounded stab at industry, independents and dfo scientists, it simply is not true.  I'd call that "caught".

Call me stupid, but I really don't understand what you're trying to say here.

[Schenley]

And this is supposed to be a thread about her running for the NDP-- not an examination (AGAIN fer crying out loud!!  ) )  of her methodology.

[StillAqua]

Their sampling protocol involved killing every fish by putting them alive into sampling bags and onto ice. This is the sampling protocol is that I am referring to, and it's my understanding that the DFO was pushing for this methodology over hand lens lice enumeration because they wanted to be able to isolate the individual life stages of the ectoparasites (Leps and Caligus) to a higher resolution under dissection microscope.

Killing a miniscule percentage of the total smolt population in the field to get better data back in the lab that might start to answer some questions about where and when the lice infected the smolts and the origin of the lice seems like good science to me. I suspect the researchers have been doing this kind of work for a long time and understand the limitations of just running around hand lensing for lice presence.

[jon5hill]

Killing a miniscule percentage of the total smolt population in the field to get better data back in the lab that might start to answer some questions about where and when the lice infected the smolts and the origin of the lice seems like good science to me. I suspect the researchers have been doing this kind of work for a long time and understand the limitations of just running around hand lensing for lice presence.

The population you are referring to was significantly depressed at the time, so as it might be a minuscule proportion 200 years ago, the effect is magnified when the population numbers are a fraction of their historical abundance. It's not wise to kill individuals from populations that are low in numbers, for obvious reasons. Also, this "running around" has been compared with lethal sampling techniques in a publication, Nonlethal Assessment of Juvenile Pink and Chum Salmon for Parasitic Sea Lice Infections and Fish Health (Krkosek et al. 2005).

Here is a quote from the discussion, as it compares "running around hand lensing" with killing juveniles and bringing them back to the lab.

"Both nonlethal and lethal sampling techniques produced similar estimates of louse stage abundances despite a bias to underdetect copepodid and chalimus lice in nonlethal samples."

Furthermore, as mentioned above, scale samples can be taken without killing fish, which can be used to determine the origin of the fish via microsatellite DNA analysis.

I have done both lethal and nonlethal sampling, and from my own experience, there is a high probability of losing a louse on the plastic bag the fish are held in, as the handling time is increased significantly. Also, it's not possible to determine where the louse are coming from by looking at them under neither microscope nor hand lens, so it added no additional resolution to their assessment.

[chris gadsden]

Tonight:  Listen to Alexandra Morton on CBC’s ‘Ideas’ show with Paul Kennedy (10th January) – ‘Saving Salmon’: http://www.cbc.ca/ideas/schedule/#january   

[chris gadsden]

What about....” (Alexandra Morton, 10th January): http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/alexandra_morton/2011/01/what-about.html
 
“Atlantic Salmon Federation urges changes to prevent farmed fish from escaping” (Fisheries Information Service, 10th January): http://www.fis.com/fis/worldnews/worldnews.asp?monthyear=&day=10&id=39985&l=e&special=&ndb=1%20target=
 
“Bad decision to put more salmon in path of Fraser River sockeye, say grouping” (Fish News EU, 10th January):
http://www.fishnewseu.com/latest-news/world/5013-bad-decision-to-put-more-salmon-in-path-of-fraser-river-sockeye-say-grouping-.html
 
 
“Greenpeace founder supports salmon farming” (Fish Farming Xpert, 10th January): http://www.fishfarmingxpert.com/index.php?page_id=76&article_id=90230
 
 
“Wild salmon is healthier than farmed” (Medical News Today, 10th January):
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/213244.php
 
 
“
Sure, your cheque is in the mail. Really: An Initiative of the BC Salmon Farmers Association Invites the Public to Get the Straight Facts on Salmon Farming at their New web site, www.BCSalmonFacts.ca
” (CNW/BC Salmon Farmers’ Association, 9th January):
http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/January2011/09/c9315.html
 
 
“Your words of advice” (Alexandra Morton, 9th January): http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/alexandra_morton/2011/01/your-words-of-advice.html
 
 
“More fish farm oversight” (The Times Colonist, 8th January):
http://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/More+fish+farm+oversight/4080262/story.html?cid=megadrop_story
 
 
“
Morton 'thinking about' federal NDP bid
” (North Island Gazette, 7th January): http://www.bclocalnews.com/news/113101539.html
 
 
“Politics that are killing our salmon are killing our towns” (Alexandra Morton, 7th January): http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/alexandra_morton/2011/01/politics-that-are-killing-our-salmon-are-killing-our-towns.html
 
 
“Pesticide use, lobster deaths probed in Down East waters” (Bangor Daily News, 7th January): http://www.bangordailynews.com/story/Business/Pesticide-use-lobster-deaths-probed-in-Down-East-waters,163402
 
 
“138,000 farmed salmon escape into Bay of Fundy” (CTV/Canadian Press, 7th January): http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20110107/farmed-salmon-escape-into-bay-of-fundy-110107/
 
 
“More Farmed Salmon Escape Near Grand Manan Island” (Atlantic Salmon Federation, 7th January): http://www.asf.ca/news.php?id=631
 
 
“Update on Okisollo and Hoskyn Channel salmon farms” (BC Salmon Farmers’ Association, 7th January): http://www.salmonfarmers.org/update-okisollo-and-hoskyn-channel-salmon-farms
 
 
“Half a million more farmed salmon being placed in the path of migrating Fraser River sockeye” (Georgia Strait Alliance, 7th January): http://www.georgiastrait.org/?q=node%2F994
 
 
“Lawmakers tackle genetically modified salmon” (Slash Food, 7th January): http://www.slashfood.com/2011/01/07/lawmakers-tackle-genetically-modified-salmon/
 
 
“Message from Alexandra Morton” (Alexandra Morton, 7th January):
http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/
 
 
“Farmers work to protect wild salmon from sea lice” (BC Salmon Facts, 7th January):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-RqHyCxDEc&feature=youtube_gdata_player
 
 
“
Farmed salmon are vaccinated to prevent disease and rarely need additional medications
” (BC Salmon Facts, 7th January):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcY01kxqIKk&feature=related
 
 
“
Farmed salmon is raised naturally. That means no hormones or genetic modification to enhance growth
” (BC Salmon Facts, 7th January):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xQBdIYIy1s&feature=related
 
 
“Salmon production to remain steady in North America: Norwegian companies operating in British Columbia don’t expect a major shift to their production volumes in 2011” (Fish Farming Xpert, 4th January): http://www.fishfarmingxpert.com/index.php?page_id=76&article_id=90189

[chris gadsden]

From Alex this morning.



Hello

I have received 589 email replies from you with 95% encouraging me to run for federal MP for the North Island of British Columbia.  The facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/Alexandra-Morton-MP-for-Vancouver-Island-North/190215600992255#!/pages/Alexandra-Morton-MP-for-Vancouver-Island-North/190215600992255  has more comments.

Even though I am just a field biologist, clearly you think I can do this.  A great many of you have said you don’t trust the NDP, but would vote for me anyway. Others have suggested I look at the current provincial BC political disarray.   So you have given me pause and far more to consider.

I excerpted many of your comments on my blog, and just posted some of my thoughts.  I will be on CBC Ideas tonight in an interview recorded on the shores of the Stellako River last October.


Alexandra Morton
http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/