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[alwaysfishn]

 Look at the amount of equipment on Craigslist selling for pennies on the dollar ......

Now all of the equipment sold for pennies on the dollar on Craigslist is the result of the HST??? Now that statement is totally ridiculous! (notice I didn't suggest it was humorous)  

I even question your earlier statement: "Oddly enough, I've talked to people in the same line as mine , and everyone of us, from the supply chain to those of  us on the ground have seen anything from 15 to 30% drop in business since implementation.".

The BC economy has grown more than 3% this year (since the introduction of the HST) and you suggest your industries sales are down 30%?? Even restaurant sales (which should have been hit hard by the HST) are up year over year in spite of it.

The studies I have read on the effects of the HST indicate that the HST has had some effect on the economy in BC, and for that reason the government is making adjustments by lowering the HST rate from 12% to 10% and providing families with young children a cheque for $175 per person to offset the increased costs. They are also increasing taxes for business by 2% to "take back" some of the savings they are getting as a result of the HST.

I understand you have a hate on for the Liberal government and anything related to it, including the HST, and you are free to feel that way. However if you post nonsense that I find either humorous or just nonsense I will comment on it.

It is after all a public forum.

[Sandman]

The BC economy has grown more than 3% this year (since the introduction of the HST) and you suggest your industries sales are down 30%??

Well...given the BC economy is in recovery from a global downturn, it really had no where to go but up.  In fact, the growth in the later part of 2010 (post HST implementation) has been described as "choppy" by analysts:

Overall, the second half of 2010 was choppy and quite weak for both the BC and Canadian economies, especially considering the magnitude of the 2008-09 downturn.  It is worth noting the Index is only now returning to its pre-recession levels, underscoring the fact that, in common with the rest of North America, there is still a fair amount of slack in the BC economy.
 

It could be said that the modest growth was in spite of the implementation of the HST.

Even restaurant sales (which should have been hit hard by the HST) are up year over year in spite of it.

Well...given the HST has been around less than a year, I am not sure how you can say that restaurant sales are up "year over year" in spite of the HST.  At any rate, it appears the Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association would disagree with you AF:

    *  Contrary to the report from the Independent Panel on the HST, which relied on preliminary Statscan data, restaurant sales in B.C. were flat (-0.1%) between July 2010 and January 2011, compared to a 1.7% increase for all of Canada.  Excluding British Columbia, sales in the rest of Canada rose 2.0%.

A survey of CRFA members conducted in March, 2011 found that many restaurant operators are experiencing more dramatic effects:

    * Nearly nine in 10 (87%) respondents reported a drop in sales since HST took effect, with an average decrease of 15% between July 2010 and Jan. 2011 compared to a year earlier.
    * In the same survey, 68% of B.C. restaurateurs said they will vote against HST as it is currently structured in the upcoming HST referendum. 

“Our members will be disappointed that today’s announcement contains no sector specific measures to reduce the unique negative impact of the tax on BC’s restaurant industry,” says Mark von Schellwitz, CRFA Vice President, Western Canada.  “Today’s announcement does nothing to convince more restaurant operators to support the HST.”

 

[alwaysfishn]

Well...given the HST has been around less than a year, I am not sure how you can say that restaurant sales are up "year over year" in spite of the HST.  At any rate, it appears the Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association would disagree with you AF:
 

You are going to rely on the association's numbers, rather than Statscan?

Statscan is an unbiased federal agency who uses actual sales tax data to calculate their results, while the CRFA obviously has a huge bias, and they relied on a survey of their members to come up with their numbers.

[Novabonker]

Now all of the equipment sold for pennies on the dollar on Craigslist is the result of the HST??? Now that statement is totally ridiculous! (notice I didn't suggest it was humorous)  

Um - from small business folding - most are from one man or family owned business

I even question your earlier statement: "Oddly enough, I've talked to people in the same line as mine , and everyone of us, from the supply chain to those of  us on the ground have seen anything from 15 to 30% drop in business since implementation.".

Really? My wife works in the mining industry- they're down quite a bit too. I can easily back that statement up as to most facets in my industry

The BC economy has grown more than 3% this year (since the introduction of the HST) and you suggest your industries sales are down 30%?? Even restaurant sales (which should have been hit hard by the HST) are up year over year in spite of it.

Odd- the eateries I frequent say between the HST and the .05 laws they're sucking fumes.

The studies I have read on the effects of the HST indicate that the HST has had some effect on the economy in BC, and for that reason the government is making adjustments by lowering the HST rate from 12% to 10% and providing families with young children a cheque for $175 per person to offset the increased costs. They are also increasing taxes for business by 2% to "take back" some of the savings they are getting as a result of the HST.

How many times have we been outright lied to by this pack of jackasses? If you're either naive or gullible to buy that pile of crap , then my apologies to you. Seriously you believe that? 



I understand you have a hate on for the Liberal government and anything related to it, including the HST, and you are free to feel that way. However if you post nonsense that I find either humorous or just nonsense I will comment on it.

It is after all a public forum.

Right back at ya- Yes, I admit I do dislike the ruling government - for the total lack of honesty. Until we start to demand integreity we end up with the sad collection of shills, crooks and liars that presently inhabit the Legislature. Do you believe your hero's are right up there with candor and truthfullness?

[Bassonator]

Ill stick with the lesser of 2 evils, hence another 4 yrs of dippers as opposition.....

[Sandman]

You are going to rely on the association's numbers, rather than Statscan?

Statscan is an unbiased federal agency who uses actual sales tax data to calculate their results, while the CRFA obviously has a huge bias, and they relied on a survey of their members to come up with their numbers.

That is interesting...you say the HST is good for "business", but when an association of "businesses" says the HST is hurting their business, you suggest they are lying because they are bias.  The "independent" report was relying on "preliminary" Statscan data, data that may indeed not be as reliable as the year goes on, but as you said yourself, the CRFA relied on a survey of their members: businessmen, who were saying business is down, not up.  If the HST were really good for their business, why would they lie about it?  Why would they not support the HST?  Just trying to understand your argument here.

[alwaysfishn]

That is interesting...you say the HST is good for "business", but when an association of "businesses" says the HST is hurting their business, you suggest they are lying because they are bias.  The "independent" report was relying on "preliminary" Statscan data, data that may indeed not be as reliable as the year goes on, but as you said yourself, the CRFA relied on a survey of their members: businessmen, who were saying business is down, not up.  If the HST were really good for their business, why would they lie about it?  Why would they not support the HST?  Just trying to understand your argument here.

My argument is that the restaurant industry does not want the HST....  not because it increases their costs (it lowers them), but because consumers pay more to eat out and the fear is that consumers will eat out less as a result. I suggested they are biased because they represent one side of the argument..... anti-HST.  Statscan doesn't represent either side they just report real time data.

The Statscan data is the most reliable data out there and both business and government use their data.

I remember when the GST was introduced in 1991. The restaurant industry had to charge the extra 7% on meals. They screamed murder! Their sales did go down initially however within a year their business was back to normal. Of course the restaurant industry has grown dramatically since 1991!

The HST adds the same 7% that the GST did when it was introduced. I suggest within a year restaurant sales will be growing at the same rate in BC as in parts of the country that don't charge PST on meals.

[Sandman]

The HST adds the same 7% that the GST did when it was introduced. I suggest within a year restaurant sales will be growing at the same rate in BC as in parts of the country that don't charge PST on meals.

Of course, many restaurants will close in that year, and many waitresses, cooks, dishwashers and busers will lose their jobs and not be spending money in other businesses while we wait for that to happen. 

[alwaysfishn]

Of course, many restaurants will close in that year, and many waitresses, cooks, dishwashers and busers will lose their jobs and not be spending money in other businesses while we wait for that to happen. 

I'm sure that same argument was used when society started switching from horse and buggy to self propelled vehicles...   There would have been a lot of horse carriage builders put out of business. Probably not the best example, but hopefully you get my point.

There is always going to be a cost to change, but if the change is the right one, then everyone eventually agrees that the change was worth the cost.

The HST is not a big change, and in Ontario it is not even being talked about anymore. In BC because of the legislation that the NDP introduced when they were in power which allowed government decisions like the HST to be challenged, we have the upcoming referendum. I'm not saying that is a bad thing, however Vanderzalm and other politically motivated people used it this time as a means to further their own agendas, and it has been blown up to be a larger change than it actually is. Of course add to that the sloppy introduction of the HST by the Liberals and it's become a huge deal!

In the end the change from the GST/PST tax system to the HST gives us a better tax system.

[Sandman]

I'm sure that same argument was used when society started switching from horse and buggy to self propelled vehicles...   There would have been a lot of horse carriage builders put out of business. Probably not the best example, but hopefully you get my point.

Definitely not a good example as that too was a very bad idea in a long history of bad ideas.  The greatest crisis facing mankind is a direct result of that particular bad idea.  I am sure that at the time it was considered a great idea in the short term, even in the long term, but time has proven it to be disastrous to the planet.  I am sure the HST will not be nearly as damaging.

[alwaysfishn]

Definitely not a good example as that too was a very bad idea in a long history of bad ideas.  The greatest crisis facing mankind is a direct result of that particular bad idea.  I am sure that at the time it was considered a great idea in the short term, even in the long term, but time has proven it to be disastrous to the planet.  I am sure the HST will not be nearly as damaging.

That's the first time I have ever heard anyone be upset about the innovation of the vehicle....    

I agree about the HST.

[Novabonker]

Of course, many restaurants will close in that year, and many waitresses, cooks, dishwashers and busers will lose their jobs and not be spending money in other businesses while we wait for that to happen.  

And not just in that sector alone. Since MY sales are way off, I've had to shelve putting another crew on the road after I've made a substantial investment in equipment. AF , let me set the record straight before you make any more assumptions- Yes, indeed I dislike and distrust the Liberals because of the piles of bull$^it they've tossed about, but I feel the same way towards any other party that continually lies, cheats and uses the electorate as doormats. They're supposed to work for US, not the people who adorn the road with flower petals on the way to the throne. Any simpleton with 1/4 of a brain can see the Liberals donors are benefiting mightily during their reign. That's the crap that grinds my gears and every damn party does it. It's not morally acceptable , right or should even be allowed to happen, but it does in all levels of government. Until we stop sitting on our well marbled fannys and damn well demand clarity and truth, we're going to end up with the trash and liars that eat away at our lives and finances. 

[Sandman]

That's the first time I have ever heard anyone be upset about the innovation of the vehicle....    

Really?  Under what rock have you been sleeping?  While the automobile itself is not inherently evil, the internal combustion engine that powers it, and the billions of tonnes of greenhouse gases that we all dump into the atmosphere as we use it, day after day, year after year, (to the point that we cannot imagine living without it), is a primary (second only to industry) contributor to the greatest crisis facing humankind - global warming.

[troutbreath]

I've noticed that Alwaysassuming is promoting things that either polute or lead to a major crisis down the road. Some sort of blind to the consequences outlook. Fasinating to observe, but also bone chilling. I've taken to rubbing my good luck rabit foot when reading his posts.

[alwaysfishn]

Really?  Under what rock have you been sleeping?  While the automobile itself is not inherently evil, the internal combustion engine that powers it, and the billions of tonnes of greenhouse gases that we all dump into the atmosphere as we use it, day after day, year after year, (to the point that we cannot imagine living without it), is a primary (second only to industry) contributor to the greatest crisis facing humankind - global warming.

As much as I don't appreciate the derogatory suggestion that I sleep under a rock, here's what it would look like if I did.

Under my rock I can see what the world would be like if there wasn't any innovation. Under my rock people focus on how to to make the world better in spite of the negative aspects of innovation. We realize there would be huge poverty and lifespans would be similar to what they were in the early 1900's if innovation wasn't allowed. Under my rock global warming is a natural occurrence and has little to do with innovation.

On the other hand if I saw things from your perspective of a perfect world that lacks the internal combustion engine...  the fishing and hunting would still be phenomenal and the lack of HST apparently would make some people happy...   

I'll stick with my rock though.