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Author Topic: The HST vote - making a decision  (Read 150095 times)

Sandman

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Re: The HST vote - making a decision
« Reply #240 on: July 03, 2011, 07:04:26 PM »

Well it is impossible to say that one system might work here, or we should adopt so-and-so's system, etc. because we live in an entirely different country. 

I never suggested we adopt the Swedish system or claimed that it would work here, or even that it is a perfect system.  I merely offered it as an example of a country that has been able to balance a strong economy with social responsibility.  The Swedes have shown that you do not have to choose between the two.   A Canadian system would, naturally, be have to be Canadian.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2011, 07:06:02 PM by Sandman »
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StillAqua

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Re: The HST vote - making a decision
« Reply #241 on: July 03, 2011, 08:58:41 PM »

I never suggested we adopt the Swedish system or claimed that it would work here, or even that it is a perfect system.  I merely offered it as an example of a country that has been able to balance a strong economy with social responsibility.  The Swedes have shown that you do not have to choose between the two.   A Canadian system would, naturally, be have to be Canadian.

I spent 4 months teaching in Uppsala in 2004 and I talked politics, economies and compared countries with many Swedish students over many a very expensive beer. Sweden's base resource economy is very similar to Canadas (forestry, mining, hydropower) but they have a much more extensive and international manufacturing sector that generates lots of well paying jobs (the ultimate wealth distribution mechanism). One of the big reasons for their success that seemed to stand out is that they have an unusally cooperative and non-confrontational relationship among the government, businesses and unions. All three recognize that they can all benefit if their industry is profitable and they work together. You don't have business versus union political parties, you don't have politicians scapegoating unions to gain public votes, and you don't have companies and unions at each others throats over every issue.

But our fishing is much better.....
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JAwrey

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Re: The HST vote - making a decision
« Reply #242 on: July 03, 2011, 09:06:30 PM »

I never suggested we adopt the Swedish system or claimed that it would work here, or even that it is a perfect system.  I merely offered it as an example of a country that has been able to balance a strong economy with social responsibility.  The Swedes have shown that you do not have to choose between the two.   A Canadian system would, naturally, be have to be Canadian.

I hope that you don't think that was my point, that you were saying this - I was saying this for the sake of the betterment of the discussion, not in an effort to insinuate you believed we should directly transplant the Swedish system!

John
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Sandman

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Re: The HST vote - making a decision
« Reply #243 on: July 03, 2011, 09:28:28 PM »

But our fishing is much better.....

...which makes this Swede thankful his great grandfather emigrated.
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JAwrey

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Re: The HST vote - making a decision
« Reply #244 on: July 03, 2011, 09:36:44 PM »

...which makes this Swede thankful his great grandfather emigrated.

Zing!!!!
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chris gadsden

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Re: The HST vote - making a decision
« Reply #245 on: July 04, 2011, 09:44:12 AM »

THE VANCOUVER SUN

 

Families at risk by returning to old PST-GST

June 30, 2011

Page A15

By Stockwell Day

 

With the harmonized sales tax referendum decision now just weeks away, British Columbians are faced with a unique and historic decision, a choice of whether they want to pay less tax or more tax.

It is a choice that will affect every family, business and bank account across the province, and represents one of the most important public decisions in the province's recent history. The ballot question is this: Do you want to extinguish the HST (now 12 per cent, but scheduled to be reduced to 11 per cent in 2012 and 10 per cent by 2014) or return to the previous 12-per-cent double tax system that included a provincial sales tax plus the federal goods and services tax?

On the surface, the answer may seem simple enough: Keep the HST and pay less tax within three years, or bring back the PST-GST and pay more tax. It's a decision that will shape the future of our province for decades to come.

It would be easy for me to simply stay out of the referendum debate. After all, the move to a harmonized sales tax was a provincial initiative, not a federal one. Added to that is the anger felt by many about the way the provincial government went about implementing the HST.

Former premier Gordon Campbell, who was a key player in turning B.C.'s economy around several years ago, is the first person to admit that the public communication side of the HST was not conducted well.

So you may ask, why am I wading into the discussion?

Many people have been asking for my perspective on the HST, especially as a former Alberta finance minister who lowered taxes. I decided that the HST issue is far too important to stay silent on, especially with so many British Columbians angry about it.

I firmly believe that a decision of this importance should be based on cold, hard facts, not raw emotion.

The economic reality is this: Individuals and families will be better off by having the HST in place as recently amended by Premier Christy Clark.

The provincial government committed to and undertook a province-wide consultation. They listened to British Columbians and acknowledged their feedback in the form of a rate reduction to 10 per cent from the current 12 per cent.

These changes reflected the concerns of every family and business, and reinforced a provincial tax policy that makes B.C.'s economy stronger.

British Columbians need to understand the real ramifications of bringing back an old, antiquated tax system. There is too much at stake to risk voting for a return to the 12-percent PST-GST.

Bottom line: The HST benefits all British Columbians:

·        The HST will drop two points to 10 per cent by 2014.

·        The average B.C. family will save $120 more a year.

·        A one-time, $175 transitional cheque will be given for each child under 18 in a family.

·        Single seniors with incomes under $40,000 will receive a one-time, $175 transitional cheque, while senior couples with family incomes under $40,000 will receive $350.

·        Rebate payments of up to $230 will be put into the hands of lower-income families.

·        24,400 new jobs are predicted to be created by the end of the decade.

Reverting back to the old PST-GST system would take away every one of these personal benefits. The move would hurt B.C.'s economy and leave less money in the wallets of every B.C. family.

Choosing a 12-per-cent tax system over a 10-per-cent tax system would hurt job growth and hinder the post-recession recovery of B.C.'s small businesses, the lifeblood of our economy, which make up 98 per cent of our business community and employ over one million people.

In a short amount of time, the new tax is also making B.C. more competitive, particularly in our resource sectors. It is allowing industries such as forestry, mining, manufacturing, tourism, construction and film to hire more employees and increase wages.

Under the PST, B.C. businesses paid tax on materials, equipment, energy and other goods and services. The PST was paid at every step of the way, cascading into higher prices for consumers.

Voting to return to the PST-GST would be a step backward that B.C. residents will have to bear for years to come.

It may mean we will have to repay $1.6 billion to the federal government in transition funds to implement the tax. This could mean cuts to social services such as health care and education, and/or other tax increases.

Thank you for giving this your thoughtful consideration, even though you may be one of the many who is upset with the situation.

As someone who loves this beautiful province, I simply want what is best for our future and for our children's future.

Whichever way you decide to vote, I hope this will also be your guiding motivation.

Stockwell Day has served as a federal and Alberta cabinet minister, president of the Treasury Board, leader of the Canadian Alliance and Member of Parliament for the B.C. riding of Okanagan-Coquihalla.

alwaysfishn

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Re: The HST vote - making a decision
« Reply #246 on: July 04, 2011, 10:05:41 AM »

THE VANCOUVER SUN

 

Families at risk by returning to old PST-GST

June 30, 2011

Page A15

By Stockwell Day

 

With the harmonized sales tax referendum decision now just weeks away, British Columbians are faced with a unique and historic decision, a choice of whether they want to pay less tax or more tax.

It is a choice that will affect every family, business and bank account across the province, and represents one of the most important public decisions in the province's recent history. The ballot question is this: Do you want to extinguish the HST (now 12 per cent, but scheduled to be reduced to 11 per cent in 2012 and 10 per cent by 2014) or return to the previous 12-per-cent double tax system that included a provincial sales tax plus the federal goods and services tax?

On the surface, the answer may seem simple enough: Keep the HST and pay less tax within three years, or bring back the PST-GST and pay more tax. It's a decision that will shape the future of our province for decades to come.

It would be easy for me to simply stay out of the referendum debate. After all, the move to a harmonized sales tax was a provincial initiative, not a federal one. Added to that is the anger felt by many about the way the provincial government went about implementing the HST.

Former premier Gordon Campbell, who was a key player in turning B.C.'s economy around several years ago, is the first person to admit that the public communication side of the HST was not conducted well.

So you may ask, why am I wading into the discussion?

Many people have been asking for my perspective on the HST, especially as a former Alberta finance minister who lowered taxes. I decided that the HST issue is far too important to stay silent on, especially with so many British Columbians angry about it.

I firmly believe that a decision of this importance should be based on cold, hard facts, not raw emotion.

The economic reality is this: Individuals and families will be better off by having the HST in place as recently amended by Premier Christy Clark.

The provincial government committed to and undertook a province-wide consultation. They listened to British Columbians and acknowledged their feedback in the form of a rate reduction to 10 per cent from the current 12 per cent.

These changes reflected the concerns of every family and business, and reinforced a provincial tax policy that makes B.C.'s economy stronger.

British Columbians need to understand the real ramifications of bringing back an old, antiquated tax system. There is too much at stake to risk voting for a return to the 12-percent PST-GST.

Bottom line: The HST benefits all British Columbians:

·        The HST will drop two points to 10 per cent by 2014.

·        The average B.C. family will save $120 more a year.

·        A one-time, $175 transitional cheque will be given for each child under 18 in a family.

·        Single seniors with incomes under $40,000 will receive a one-time, $175 transitional cheque, while senior couples with family incomes under $40,000 will receive $350.

·        Rebate payments of up to $230 will be put into the hands of lower-income families.

·        24,400 new jobs are predicted to be created by the end of the decade.

Reverting back to the old PST-GST system would take away every one of these personal benefits. The move would hurt B.C.'s economy and leave less money in the wallets of every B.C. family.

Choosing a 12-per-cent tax system over a 10-per-cent tax system would hurt job growth and hinder the post-recession recovery of B.C.'s small businesses, the lifeblood of our economy, which make up 98 per cent of our business community and employ over one million people.

In a short amount of time, the new tax is also making B.C. more competitive, particularly in our resource sectors. It is allowing industries such as forestry, mining, manufacturing, tourism, construction and film to hire more employees and increase wages.

Under the PST, B.C. businesses paid tax on materials, equipment, energy and other goods and services. The PST was paid at every step of the way, cascading into higher prices for consumers.

Voting to return to the PST-GST would be a step backward that B.C. residents will have to bear for years to come.

It may mean we will have to repay $1.6 billion to the federal government in transition funds to implement the tax. This could mean cuts to social services such as health care and education, and/or other tax increases.

Thank you for giving this your thoughtful consideration, even though you may be one of the many who is upset with the situation.

As someone who loves this beautiful province, I simply want what is best for our future and for our children's future.

Whichever way you decide to vote, I hope this will also be your guiding motivation.

Stockwell Day has served as a federal and Alberta cabinet minister, president of the Treasury Board, leader of the Canadian Alliance and Member of Parliament for the B.C. riding of Okanagan-Coquihalla.

Just more of that right wing, lying Campbell, Fraser Institute propaganda!

Oh wait, that's not what I think.....  that's what Novabonker and Sandman would say....   ;D  ;D


Thanks for posting, Chris!
« Last Edit: July 04, 2011, 10:07:12 AM by alwaysfishn »
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Novabonker

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Re: The HST vote - making a decision
« Reply #247 on: July 04, 2011, 10:22:51 AM »

 Stockwell Day - the same person who's already setting up shop as a government consultant, despite supposedly having to wait 5 years. Credible? NO. Same question AF - no answer. I wonder why....
Again AF - IF we've made such wonderful strides under the Liberals as a society- WHY do we have the highest child and senior's poverty rates teamed up with the lowest minimum wage in the country? I'll continue to ask this every time I see a post with your name on it because I can't understand how that helps our society and think you might enlighten us peasants.

In the end- Who has prospered?
« Last Edit: July 04, 2011, 11:02:30 AM by Novabonker »
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chris gadsden

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Re: The HST vote - making a decision
« Reply #248 on: July 04, 2011, 10:30:42 AM »

 One thing I have not been able to find out if we go back to the PST- GST tax system are we still going to be taxed on the number of new taxable items and services that are now taxed when the HST was brought in? There was a lot that we did not pay tax on before under our old tax system.

Of course Day was in the Conservative government when his party struck this deal with Campbell so he is going to favor this system. Too bad we are not like Alberta with no sales tax at all but maybe they have a higher income tax rate than us.
My ballot is being mailed into with the X placed in the correct spot. ;D ;D

You may want to watch if you have not already, these videos I filmed of Bill Vander Zalm when he was in Chilliwack a couple of weeks ago to help you make your choice.

http://youtu.be/MRhJX6TOjxM

http://youtu.be/XRSFQOLp5o0

http://youtu.be/TWYon4n25I8

Cheers,

Chris

alwaysfishn

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Re: The HST vote - making a decision
« Reply #249 on: July 04, 2011, 11:02:48 AM »

One thing I have not been able to find out if we go back to the PST- GST tax system are we still going to be taxed on the number of new taxable items and services that are now taxed when the HST was brought in? There was a lot that we did not pay tax on before under our old tax system.

Of course Day was in the Conservative government when his party struck this deal with Campbell so he is going to favor this system. Too bad we are not like Alberta with no sales tax at all but maybe they have a higher income tax rate than us.
My ballot is being mailed into with the X placed in the correct spot. ;D ;D

You may want to watch if you have not already, these videos I filmed of Bill Vander Zalm when he was in Chilliwack a couple of weeks ago to help you make your choice.

http://youtu.be/MRhJX6TOjxM

http://youtu.be/XRSFQOLp5o0

http://youtu.be/TWYon4n25I8

Cheers,

Chris

Good videos Chris!

Here's some better one's:  ;D  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nZXu3LXNwEg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frnBgX9QRZM

https://www.youtube.com/user/SupportHST?blend=22&ob=5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5bWFlBClBM

And if you  don't like those, the following article is good reading...

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=14&ved=0CCgQFjADOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ctf.ca%2Fctfweb%2FCMDownload.aspx%3FContentKey%3D71936168-4416-4f7a-9bba-41383b591cdc%26ContentItemKey%3Deecb53e3-4dd0-4a82-80c2-da32949e2db9&rct=j&q=Top%20Seven%20%E2%80%93%20all%20new%20and%20misleading%20as%20ever%20%E2%80%93%20HST%20Myths%3A&tbs=ctr%3A7p604125b982ek&ei=VAICToPBKKH40gHC6KHTDg&usg=AFQjCNEF6C4_ra5DFQurjM4iTlPPgo7Y0w&as_acct=8sa53zk23u&cr=zl9zu63xs&as_acct=3d1u4c6291kr8e&cr=0nx9gf2kem17&as_acct=8seahvz5z99w&cr=946q65p68
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Novabonker

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Re: The HST vote - making a decision
« Reply #250 on: July 04, 2011, 11:06:29 AM »

You only comment to make a dig and personal snide comments, but you can't answer a direct questions AF- no courage to match your convictions? Or are the truthful answers not serving your propaganda? Looks pretty foolish to spew things when you won't answer a few simple questions, not that I would expect anything else.

Again AF - IF we've made such wonderful strides under the Liberals as a society- WHY do we have the highest child and senior's poverty rates teamed up with the lowest minimum wage in the country? I'll continue to ask this every time I see a post with your name on it because I can't understand how that helps our society and think you might enlighten us peasants.

In the end- Who has prospered? (besides the Liberal financial backers)
« Last Edit: July 04, 2011, 11:10:19 AM by Novabonker »
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chris gadsden

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Re: The HST vote - making a decision
« Reply #251 on: July 04, 2011, 11:47:19 AM »

If the 10 HST is now such a good idea as the videos and the proponents keep saying why did they not go with it at the start a year ago or once they announced it a few weeks ago?

Answer: they want to continue to rip most of us as long as they can. :(

Novabonker

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Re: The HST vote - making a decision
« Reply #252 on: July 04, 2011, 11:54:59 AM »

If the 10 HST is now such a good idea as the videos and the proponents keep saying why did they not go with it at the start a year ago or once they announced it a few weeks ago?

Answer: they want to continue to rip most of us as long as they can. :(

Another answer-  hold us over for a quickie election (this fall, before the love-in with Crispy Cluck ends) and then it will turn into another pile of manure, probably stating that the economy can't handle the loss of revenue. After the amount of outright lies and bullspit we've been fed by this crew, nobody should accept the Liberals musings at face value. Hand me that shovel Chris. I have to clean up the liberal poop and start digging their early election grave.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2011, 11:59:29 AM by Novabonker »
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alwaysfishn

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Re: The HST vote - making a decision
« Reply #253 on: July 04, 2011, 12:40:09 PM »

If the 10 HST is now such a good idea as the videos and the proponents keep saying why did they not go with it at the start a year ago or once they announced it a few weeks ago?

Answer: they want to continue to rip most of us as long as they can. :(

I'm not sure if that's the right answer. I often wonder why the gold is always at the end of the rainbow....  why isn't it at the beginning?  :D

When I was young and I wanted something that I knew I couldn't have, my father used to say; "Imagine how much you'll appreciate it when you get it!"


If you think the HST is good at 10%, but you vote against it because you want it right now......   ???  ???
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Novabonker

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Re: The HST vote - making a decision
« Reply #254 on: July 04, 2011, 01:59:59 PM »

Simple answer - the Liberals have no credibility, not even the guts to answer questions in debate. Now where have I seen that before recently.........
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