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[blaydRnr]

sorry folks, i just don't buy into the 'HST is good for the economy' speech...i was around when the GST was introduced as a way to alleviate the national deficit and help pay for social services, but i have yet to see any public reports on the success of the tax or how it was allocated.

it seems taxes are often used as 'a way out' for government to compensate for poor money management... i see the HST as nothing more than a smoke screen to eliminate any exemptions that the GST allowed.

if it's such a great tax then why would you have to bribe people with a $178 rebate and have a referendum with the questionaire being worded so confusingly? also why didn't they have the tax at 10% to begin with rather than wait to have the negative reaction of the consumers?

the government will never spend so time and money on something that isn't lucrative for them in the long run....just look recently with our gas prices, as the US introduced the lowering of oil prices, our government decided to implement a carbon tax.

Vote the way you want...but i'll let the record stand.

[alwaysfishn]

sorry folks, i just don't buy into the 'HST is good for the economy' speech...i was around when the GST was introduced as a way to alleviate the national deficit and help pay for social services, but i have yet to see any public reports on the success of the tax or how it was allocated.

The GST was introduced to replace the 13% FST. The FST was a hidden tax that added to the cost of every product Canada produced. This made our companies uncompetitive with companies world wide. Do some research. The GST was not brought in to help with the deficit or social services. It was revenue neutral, as it replaced the FST. The introduction of the GST along with the introduction of free trade were 2 of the greatest changes that have helped Canada become the county we are today. It's one of the big reasons why Canada has come through the latest recession so much stronger than our neighbor to the south.

Substitute BC for Canada, and HST for PST/GST in the paragraph above and that's the benefits to the HST in BC.

The rest of your ramble has nothing to do with the HST....

[blaydRnr]

The GST was introduced to replace the 13% FST. The FST was a hidden tax that added to the cost of every product Canada produced. This made our companies uncompetitive with companies world wide. Do some research. The GST was not brought in to help with the deficit or social services. It was revenue neutral, as it replaced the FST. The introduction of the GST along with the introduction of free trade were 2 of the greatest changes that have helped Canada become the county we are today. It's one of the big reasons why Canada has come through the latest recession so much stronger than our neighbor to the south.

Substitute BC for Canada, and HST for PST/GST in the paragraph above and that's the benefits to the HST in BC.

The rest of your ramble has nothing to do with the HST....

no such thing as revenue neutral hidden or not, tax is a tax...GST or the blended HST only the select few will benefit from it (probably someone like you)... Free trade and GST DID NOT make Canada what is it today...IT'S CALLED NATURAL RESOURCE and a banking system that's been around since the turn of the century... remember when the states imposed tariffs on our soft wood lumber? that because they didn't want to compete with our weak canadian dollar... we were nothing more than a cheap resource counter part to mexico's cheap labour....that's what free trade did for Canada...it's cheaper to buy canadian products in the states than it is to buy in canada..imagine that.

seems you ramble as much as i do.

 

 

[alwaysfishn]

In your ramble I found one thing that we agree on.....  "a tax is a tax".   

The only way a government can pay for the health care, education and roads everyone wants, is to tax us. The challenge for government is to find a way to tax us that balances taxes between business and the consumer, yet tries not to hurt either the consumers ability to buy or the businesses ability to sell competitive products.

I hate tax as much as the next guy, but the HST provides a better way than the PST/GST to collect the tax that the government needs.

[chris gadsden]

the HST provides a better way than the PST/GST to collect the tax that the government needs.

To collect it from the average taxpayer while big business and this bad Provincial government gains most of the benefits.


 blaydRnr has iit right.                

       sorry folks, i just don't buy into the 'HST is good for the economy' speech...i was around when the GST was introduced as a way to alleviate the national deficit and help pay for social services, but i have yet to see any public reports on the success of the tax or how it was allocated.

it seems taxes are often used as 'a way out' for government to compensate for poor money management... i see the HST as nothing more than a smoke screen to eliminate any exemptions that the GST allowed.

if it's such a great tax then why would you have to bribe people with a $178 rebate and have a referendum with the questionaire being worded so confusingly? also why didn't they have the tax at 10% to begin with rather than wait to have the negative reaction of the consumers?

the government will never spend so time and money on something that isn't lucrative for them in the long run....just look recently with our gas prices, as the US introduced the lowering of oil prices, our government decided to implement a carbon tax.

Vote the way you want...but i'll let the record stand.


 

[alwaysfishn]

I need to correct a couple of your comments Chris...

The GST was introduced to get rid of the FST (Federal Sales tax). The FST was just like the PST in that it added layers of cost to every product that Canadian businesses manufactured. Every time a consumer bought something they paid tax on top of tax. The GST was never introduced to alleviate the deficit, although it helped the Liberals run surplus budgets for many years. When the Conservatives came into power of course they lowered the GST to 5% from 7%. We have had deficits since.

The HST may look like a smoke screen, more because both the pro and the anti sides have played politics in introducing it. In reality it does the same thing that the GST does. It gets rid of a layering tax. Tax on tax is not an efficient way of collecting and it makes the end product more expensive.

If you suggest that the $175 rebate is a bribe then GST rebates were a bribe. How about the child rebate that young families get? How about the income tax breaks all low income folks get? You can call them bribes but they are meant to minimize the impact of the taxation system by giving back to the lower income folks some or in some cases all of the tax they pay. The well off people don't get the bribe/rebate so they end up paying more tax. The small difference with the $175 is it is only for low income seniors and for families with young children.

The tax cannot be decreased to 10% immediately as it would have a negative impact on the budget. The deficit would be higher than forecast so there would be an outcry from the opposition. Going forward as the economy grows they can work the discount into the budget. The GST stayed at 7% for 10 years before it was lowered to 5%...

I totally agree that there is a lot of waste in government spending. I also maintain that the government will need to raise taxes as long as we demand better and better levels of health care, education, roads etc. Now we have the teachers demanding much higher wages so that will require more taxes. Mr Sinclair will be negotiating real hard for higher wages for the government workers. More taxes.

I don't like paying taxes of any sort, but if we need to be taxed lets have a tax in place that works better for the BC economy. I'm willing to wait for 2 years to see a 10% HST because over all it will cost me less than under the current 12% PST/GST. I may not be happy with all the crap of how it was introduced, but I held my nose and voted to keep the HST because I believe it will make the future BC stronger not just for me but for my kids as well.

In the end what ever happens, you and I will go fishing just like before.

[blaydRnr]

In your ramble I found one thing that we agree on.....  "a tax is a tax".  

The only way a government can pay for the health care, education and roads everyone wants, is to tax us. 
  

ummm...isn't that what i just said?  

[chris gadsden]

RAFE HERE

 

A little more on the HST which your premier and government are avoiding like the plague.

 

First, the present PST does NOT cover all the items the HST does meaning that the increase from 10% to 12% is grossly misleading with the cost to the taxpayer considerably more than the stated %. While the stated % is 10 expanded to 12, because the new tax covers a lot more items, we pay a hell of a lot more in actual cash.

 

It’s a shell game as governments are so good at and underscores what I said about trusting this government to reduce the tax in three years.

 

A further and critically important point. The power to impose direct taxation, under our constitution, belongs to the provinces exclusively. By this deal we cede that constitutional power to Ottawa with nothing I can see to prevent the federal government increasing its % forcing BC to reduce theirs or perhaps give it up entirely meaning Ottawa will have this tax all to itself.

 

I cannot understand how any BC government could cede its taxation authority to the federal government putting BC in the position of going to Ottawa with a begging bowl to get tax dollars that used to belong to the province exclusively. I have to wonder if this has anything to do with Gordon Campbell’s juicy sinecure as Canada’s High Commissioner to the United Kingdom?

 

In every way, this tax is bad for British Columbians made all the worst by this Liberal government’s deceit.

[chris gadsden]

The “YES| side of the HST debate – that is to say those opposed – got a considerable assist from the Vancouver Province, the Vancouver Sun and the Fraser Institute (the right wing “think tank”) who placed themselves on the NO side meaning in favour of the HST. If that isn’t resounding proof that the HST is a bad tax, nothing will. (By the way, the editor of the Sun’s editorial page is former Fraser Institute “fellow”, Fazil Milhar.)

 

Do I say this just because I don’t like the Province, the Sun and the Fraser Institute … and the answer is yes because they consistently stand four square behind big business, whereas I try to speak out for those a tax like this hurts. I’m fully behind free enterprise but against those who care nothing about ordinary citizens and which have, through their money, an unwarranted influence on politicians.

 

The HST is a bad tax being “user pay” or “consumption”  tax which is a graduated tax like income tax in reverse which progressively hurts the further more down the economic scale you  go. Thus the HST runs diametrically contra to our tax theory that the more you make, the higher your tax rate.

 

The HST will benefit big business but certainly not smaller ones like restaurants so we need to know why giving big business a tax break is good for us.,

 

The answer from the far right, as represented by the present government, the Fraser Institute and big business is that their savings will be passed on to the rest of us in lower prices, This is the Milton Friedman “trickle down” theory which has long been discredited by economists other than from the far right.

 

The late JK Galbraith dealt with it thusly “"Trickle-down theory - the less than elegant metaphor that if one feeds the horse enough oats, some will pass through to the road for the sparrows."

 

Integral to the governments case is that they will drop 2% of the tax in three years. I only ask this – does anyone really take promises from this government seriously? If you do, you must believe that Lucy is going to let Charlie Brown kick that ball. Few governments have much  credibility – this one has NONE<

 

This is a bad tax from a bad government to help industry which doesn’t pay its fair share of taxes as it is.

 

[alwaysfishn]

After reading that last big of nonsense, I understand why there is no link to the writer..... at least it protects the ignorant.

Rafe's article....   Does anyone have any idea what he is talking about?? 

1.  Rafe: " ..... meaning that the increase from 10% to 12% is grossly misleading with the cost to the taxpayer considerably more than the stated %. While the stated % is 10 expanded to 12 "
The HST is actually DECREASING from 12% to 10%.

2. Rafe:  "I cannot understand how any BC government could cede its taxation authority to the federal government putting BC in the position of going to Ottawa with a begging bowl to get tax dollars that used to belong to the province exclusively. "
  I'm sure he must be aware that the federal government has been collecting all the provincial income taxes from us BC'ers for the last 80+ years.....  I'm not aware of BC ever having to beg for the feds to give us our share...

[troutbreath]

There is a drop a few years down the road from 12 to 10%. But your now paying more tax by paying tax on items that were not taxed before. even with the drop in %.

The fact that the Liberals can't seem to express that clearly shows that either their conniving or stupid, your choice. Just don't try to say that this is all done on the up and up. But I guess some folks are OK with being fed bulldroppings.

[alwaysfishn]

There is a drop a few years down the road from 12 to 10%. But your now paying more tax by paying tax on items that were not taxed before. even with the drop in %.

The fact that the Liberals can't seem to express that clearly shows that either their conniving or stupid, your choice. Just don't try to say that this is all done on the up and up. But I guess some folks are OK with being fed bulldroppings.

Are you suggesting it's the Liberals fault that Rafe thinks the HST is increasing from 10% to 12% ?      Rafe: " ..... meaning that the increase from 10% to 12% is grossly misleading with the cost to the taxpayer considerably more than the stated %. While the stated % is 10 expanded to 12 "

[chris gadsden]

Only a few more days when the beginning of the end of the HST.

[Easywater]

First, the present PST does NOT cover all the items the HST does meaning that the increase from 10% to 12% is grossly misleading with the cost to the taxpayer considerably more than the stated %.

It's hard to figure out what he is trying to say here but I think that he is trying to say 2 things in one thought.

1) the HST covers more items so the overall revenue (cost) is more
2) The difference between the promised 10% and the current 12% is over rated ("misleading") since there would be more tax overall with the HST even at 10%.

The provincial government is terrible at collecting more owed to it.
The Feds can make you pay until you bleed.

[alwaysfishn]

It's hard to figure out what he is trying to say here but I think that he is trying to say 2 things in one thought.

1) the HST covers more items so the overall revenue (cost) is more
2) The difference between the promised 10% and the current 12% is over rated ("misleading") since there would be more tax overall with the HST even at 10%.

The provincial government is terrible at collecting more owed to it.
The Feds can make you pay until you bleed.

I think we can agree that Rafe should stick to commenting on stuff he knows something about.....