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Author Topic: Ethics of C&R  (Read 6381 times)

katfish

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Ethics of C&R
« on: August 17, 2011, 09:23:53 PM »

C&R salmon fishing is wrong in the river where they have a low chance of survival after being released.  C&R should only be done if you caught a fish you are not targetting and you don't want it or you cant legally keep it.  In the chuck they can rest up, so not much an issue.  But in the river as they embark on that epic return for their one and only chance to reproduce?  Give me a break!  Go to a stocked lake and fill your boats if you still want to C&R.

When you get your limit river fishing salmon (either sockeye, coho, chum, Chinook), go home.  Especially sockeye!!!

Never never go just to simply C&R.  As I said, take up trout fly fishing if you want to do C&R.  That's what I do.
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adecadelost

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Re: Ethics of C&R
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2011, 09:47:06 AM »

C&R salmon fishing is wrong in the river where they have a low chance of survival after being released.  C&R should only be done if you caught a fish you are not targetting and you don't want it or you cant legally keep it.  In the chuck they can rest up, so not much an issue.  But in the river as they embark on that epic return for their one and only chance to reproduce?  Give me a break!  Go to a stocked lake and fill your boats if you still want to C&R.

When you get your limit river fishing salmon (either sockeye, coho, chum, Chinook), go home.  Especially sockeye!!!

Never never go just to simply C&R.  As I said, take up trout fly fishing if you want to do C&R.  That's what I do.

I'm guessing this is simply bait from the trolls under the bridge but I will bite anyway in case it truly is a misguided angler.
While studies continue on mortality rates of C&R, and nothing has been concrete either way, I can only go on 30+ years of fishing experience as well as my background in conservation.

Salmon, like any other fish in the river, have plenty of places to hole up and rest.  They are not on some continuous march up the river.  They will often pull into areas of slack water or in the eddy of large rocks and debris to rest before moving on. 
From the thousands of fish I have seen in my line of work at the final spawning grounds sitting on their redds with huge chunks of flesh missing from bears and eagles, treble hooks and lines sunk deep in their back, and massive amounts of line and ripped up net tangled around their fins, it's my opinion that salmon are a lot more resilient to C&R then you are giving them credit.
I highly doubt a minute or two fight with a fish which is carefully released will cause so much stress that they will be unable to continue their journey upstream.
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katfish

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Re: Ethics of C&R
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2011, 02:51:57 PM »

While studies continue on mortality rates of C&R, and nothing has been concrete either way, I can only go on 30+ years of fishing experience as well as my background in conservation.

I am not a troll, just new to river fishing.  I found your reply thoughtful and very interesting.  I am sure you are right that many of them do survive, but some don't. You can't see the fish that don't make it.  I take it that the studies out there are not conclusive?  Seems to me we should show restraint with C&R until there is sufficient scientific evidence to show we are not doing harm.

As a purely anecdotal note, I saw a guy hook a wild coho through the gills.  Blood was pouring out.  I'd say the fish had almost now chance to survive, but he released the fish as the regs require.  That incident got me thinking which lead to my post. 

If it can be shown there is little harm in C&R, I'd have no problem with it.
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adecadelost

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Re: Ethics of C&R
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2011, 04:05:55 PM »

The key is obviously practicing proper C&R techniques.  This includes the use of proper gear; smaller sized barb-less hooks, line heavy enough to bring a fish to hand in a relatively short time (while still being light enough to be effective) and keeping the fish in the water during release.  As well, techniques such as short floating and avoiding ripping your line through the water when setting the hook will help avoid foul hooking and injuring fish.

Studies that have been carried out vary a bit and do vary between species, plus they are always ongoing, that's why I'm hesitant to take an absolute stand on C&R.  However one of the studies I remember seeing was based off proper hook sets and limited time spent fighting fish and the survival rate was something like 98%.  Which isn't too bad in my opinion.

It doesn't take too long for a fish to bleed out and die.  If C&R was so harmful I would imagine seeing a lot of dead corpses in the tailouts of runs in a fairly short time.

Now of course snagging fish in the gills with massive hooks, dragging them onto shore and then kicking them back into the river will make it very difficult for them to survive.
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Sandman

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Re: Ethics of C&R
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2011, 04:33:04 PM »

I agree with adecadelost, the key to C&R mortality is the time spent out of the water.  In the studies I have read, the time out of the water had more impact on post release mortality than any other factor (time spent fighting, water temperature, etc.).  Naturally if a fish is injured and bleeding and it is legal to do so, the ethical thing would be to kill it, even if you were not planning on a fish BBQ that night.
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roeman

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Re: Ethics of C&R
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2011, 06:40:05 PM »

Talked with the guys on the Fraser today doing a C&R study..
Mortality in the river is way less than that in the ocean.
Very interesting to hear results from the horses mouth.
Three top reasons for motality.
Bleeding
tissue damage
time out of water...
Not saying it is right, just passing on what we talked about.
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skaha

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Re: Ethics of C&R
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2011, 10:27:53 PM »

--selective harvest requires C&R as an option.
--mortality of C&R is calculated into the target harvest including projected bye-catch mortality

--we have a responsibility to use common sense... and conscider what we are doing
--does it make since in a section of river to C&R 50 + fish on a hot day late summer during low water on the kettle river just because it is legal but most certainly not intended as best practice under the current regulation.

--there are different ways to manage an area.. we could go to yearly, monthly, weekly dead quota in areas where it makes sense to do so.
--choose your poison when managing fish populations
--it is possible to have areas which require instant electronic recording of catch or as many suggest restricted or limited entry draws as is now in vogue for game management.

--I have no argument with some of these measures in selected areas where this type of micro management is required if we wish to continue to fish... far to often for my liking these rules of conduct are simply forced upon us due to gut feeling or policy flavour of the day.

--lets get some dollars spent on practical applied research and please utilise people who actually fish in the peer review process.   
« Last Edit: August 18, 2011, 10:30:43 PM by skaha »
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BwiBwi

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Re: Ethics of C&R
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2011, 12:41:05 AM »

Not sure if C&R in the local tidal fishing ground is a good idea.  So many times seals just comes and grabs the fish.   :-[
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adecadelost

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Re: Ethics of C&R
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2011, 08:58:34 AM »

--lets get some dollars spent on practical applied research and please utilise people who actually fish in the peer review process.   

Couldn't agree more!

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clarki

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Re: Ethics of C&R
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2011, 10:51:14 PM »

I agree with adecadelost, the key to C&R mortality is the time spent out of the water.  In the studies I have read, the time out of the water had more impact on post release mortality than any other factor (time spent fighting, water temperature, etc.).  Naturally if a fish is injured and bleeding and it is legal to do so, the ethical thing would be to kill it, even if you were not planning on a fish BBQ that night.

Didn't know that about time out of the water, but it makes a great deal of sense now that I think about it. Makes you wonder about the uninformed C&R anglers that spend a great deal of time with the fish out of the water trying to get a picture.
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James

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Re: Ethics of C&R
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2011, 01:04:19 AM »

i cringe and almost yell at the tv when i watch a wfn show and they are holding the fishes head or entire body out of water  . some people then assume that this is proper c & r  and then reinact these practices on there own rivers/lakes . Just because a guy with a tv show does it , doesn't make it correct .

they do it just to get a picture , but honestly camera technology has come so far in the last 10 yrs that everyone can afford a waterproof camera . and take beautiful under water pictures if they need a picture so badly .

common sense isn't so common .
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The_Other_Gman

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Re: Ethics of C&R
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2011, 06:52:58 PM »

I'll C&R fish on smaller rivers where the fish aren't far from home as I don't believe I'm abnormally taxing a fish that has a long long way to go.  I try and stay away from doing so on the Fraser.  Distinction that seems to make sense to me.  To each their own just give it some thought and make up your own mind rather than being ignorant to the possible effects.
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skaha

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Re: Ethics of C&R
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2011, 07:01:28 PM »

--magazines and fish forums could take a stand by letting it be known they will not publish pictures of fish that are held out of the water unless it is stated the fish is being kept.
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Fish or cut bait.

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Re: Ethics of C&R
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2011, 09:23:32 AM »

Quote
--magazines and fish forums could take a stand by letting it be known they will not publish pictures of fish that are held out of the water unless it is stated the fish is being kept.

The fish porn section here would be as endangered as Thompson Steelhead.
Although it would be nice to see fewer pics of sand and rock released fish (no matter how gentle) ;)
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