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Author Topic: Hatchery raised salmon  (Read 9916 times)

bluenoser

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Hatchery raised salmon
« on: October 15, 2011, 11:16:03 AM »

I've always wondered why the retention limit on several rivers is 4 marked fish per day. You would think if more were able to spawn it would be better for the species, yet on this and other forums many often comment that hatchery fish are there for us to catch not to reproduce...seems odd.

After doing alot of reading it seems that studies have shown the mortality rate of hatchery fish is much worse than wild stocks and that this carries on with the offspring of returning hatchery raised fish even when they mate with wild. They think that changing the way they are raised in the hatchery may help but that remains to be seen.

I'm originally from Nova Scotia and the rivers where I fished as boy changed regulations over the years to save the salmon stocks. Limit of 10 per year, all fish over 24.5 inches released, if the water level was low fishing was suspended....and so on. No hatchery fish program was ever set up, one excuse used was that acid rain was to blame and nothing could be done. Today those rivers have no salmon....none....salmon fishing has been closed for several years....they didn't even try a hatchery program.

Any comments from anyone more versed in this hatchery vs wild subject?

BN
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Matt

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Re: Hatchery raised salmon
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2011, 02:32:59 PM »

The more scientific literature I read, the more it would seem that the typical hatchery process doesn't significantly contribute to the health of wild populations. In fact, it is likely that they may even add further pressure on wild stocks.

To understand this, the distinction in "fitness"must be made between wild and hatchery fish. Wild fish arise from the natural spawning of two fish, obviously. The healthiest, most viable spawners get the best spawning grounds and the most desirable mates, the combination of good genes and good redds leads to high survival amongst the offspring of this favortable pairing. In contrast, weaker fish get less desirable mates and spawn in marginal spawning grounds. The result is a lower survival rate amongst this less-successful group of fish. This "survival of the fittest" mechanism drives the continuation of a strong population of salmonids.

Hatchery fish on the other hand, arise from a random pairing of a male and a female (assuming hatcheries have enough brood to spawn 1 female/1 male). Through random chance, a desirable female might be paired with the gametes of an undesirable male. The result of this pairing reduces the fitness of desirable female's progeny. In nature, the undesirable male would not have had much of a chance to reproduce and his set of undesirable genes would might be eliminated from the gene pool, thus increasing the overall health of the genepool. Through the hatchery process, the elimination of less-desirable fish at spawning does not occur and healthy fish cannot select healthy mates through random pairing of spawners.

When the juveniles hatch, the close quarters of hatcheries may cause an increase in cortisol levels which may cause juvenile hatchery fish to become more voracious feeders (Garner et al, 2010). The size at release is often larger amongst hatchery fish, and they are potentially more aggressive, driving their wild counterparts out of the optimal feeding areas. The increase in total juvenile numbers may evoke whats called a type III functional response where predators are attracted by the density of the prey (juvenile steelhead), increasing the overall predation on the population. Furthermore, hatchery fish that return to rivers are less successful in spawning, however if they do successfully manage to mate, their less-desirable genes are passed on and reduce the genetic fitness of the population. Furthermore, they take up spawning area and may dig up the redds of wild fish if they should spawn later than a wild pair.

I think hatcheries have their place in several instances:
a) to support a fish an artificial fish population in an otherwise unhealthy rivers such as the Capilano where the Cleveland Dam has blocked access to spawning grounds and stopped cut off the supply of gravel to the lower reaches.  Some salmon and steelhead still successfully spawn in-river, but there is little spawning habitat available due to the unfortunate placement of the Cleveland Dam.

b) provide a productive harvest fishery.  People like eating fish, those people pay taxes too, so enhancing some rivers to provide this opportunity is fair and provides opportunity for businesses such as tackle shops, guiding, river-side accommodation etc.

I believe the best (only?) way to restore a wild population of fish is through habitat enhancement.  This could take the form of installing fish-friendly culverts on coho tributaries, to ensuring the presence of proper gravel in spawning beds, to protecting riparian zones, marshes, estuaries, making sure there's structure in a stream, even stream fertilization.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2011, 04:47:54 PM by Matt »
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Sandman

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Re: Hatchery raised salmon
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2011, 03:10:53 PM »

I've always wondered why the retention limit on several rivers is 4 marked fish per day. You would think if more were able to spawn it would be better for the species, yet on this and other forums many often comment that hatchery fish are there for us to catch not to reproduce...seems odd.

Matt's explanation of the genetic inferiority of the hatchery fish does a good job of explaining why it is better if hatchery fish is caught and killed, as opposed to allowing it to compete with wild fish for spawning habitat.  The purpose of the hatchery program is to allow fisherman opportunities to catch and kill fish in waters that do not produce enough fish to allow retention of wild stocks.  This is supposed to take the pressure off the wild fish, which are released to spawn.  This does, of course, create a dilemma for those who practice Catch and Release as a general rule.  Does the release of that hatchery fish (purportedly to allow another fisherman the opportunity to catch it too), offer more harm than good?
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silver ghost

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Re: Hatchery raised salmon
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2011, 11:22:27 PM »

The more scientific literature I read, the more it would seem that the typical hatchery process doesn't significantly contribute to the health of wild populations. In fact, it is likely that they may even add further pressure on wild stocks.

To understand this, the distinction in "fitness"must be made between wild and hatchery fish. Wild fish arise from the natural spawning of two fish, obviously. The healthiest, most viable spawners get the best spawning grounds and the most desirable mates, the combination of good genes and good redds leads to high survival amongst the offspring of this favortable pairing. In contrast, weaker fish get less desirable mates and spawn in marginal spawning grounds. The result is a lower survival rate amongst this less-successful group of fish. This "survival of the fittest" mechanism drives the continuation of a strong population of salmonids.

Hatchery fish on the other hand, arise from a random pairing of a male and a female (assuming hatcheries have enough brood to spawn 1 female/1 male). Through random chance, a desirable female might be paired with the gametes of an undesirable male. The result of this pairing reduces the fitness of desirable female's progeny. In nature, the undesirable male would not have had much of a chance to reproduce and his set of undesirable genes would might be eliminated from the gene pool, thus increasing the overall health of the genepool. Through the hatchery process, the elimination of less-desirable fish at spawning does not occur and healthy fish cannot select healthy mates through random pairing of spawners.

When the juveniles hatch, the close quarters of hatcheries may cause an increase in cortisol levels which may cause juvenile hatchery fish to become more voracious feeders (Garner et al, 2010). The size at release is often larger amongst hatchery fish, and they are potentially more aggressive, driving their wild counterparts out of the optimal feeding areas. The increase in total juvenile numbers may evoke whats called a type III functional response where predators are attracted by the density of the prey (juvenile steelhead), increasing the overall predation on the population. Furthermore, hatchery fish that return to rivers are less successful in spawning, however if they do successfully manage to mate, their less-desirable genes are passed on and reduce the genetic fitness of the population. Furthermore, they take up spawning area and may dig up the redds of wild fish if they should spawn later than a wild pair.

I think hatcheries have their place in several instances:
a) to support a fish an artificial fish population in an otherwise unhealthy rivers such as the Capilano where the Cleveland Dam has blocked access to spawning grounds and stopped cut off the supply of gravel to the lower reaches.  Some salmon and steelhead still successfully spawn in-river, but there is little spawning habitat available due to the unfortunate placement of the Cleveland Dam.

b) provide a productive harvest fishery.  People like eating fish, those people pay taxes too, so enhancing some rivers to provide this opportunity is fair and provides opportunity for businesses such as tackle shops, guiding, river-side accommodation etc.

I believe the best (only?) way to restore a wild population of fish is through habitat enhancement.  This could take the form of installing fish-friendly culverts on coho tributaries, to ensuring the presence of proper gravel in spawning beds, to protecting riparian zones, marshes, estuaries, making sure there's structure in a stream, even stream fertilization.

Damn, that was great Matt! I learned a lot from that. Another question though...do hatcheries spawn predominantly HATCHERY fish as broodstock, or do they take wild ones to spawn with?
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Geff_t

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Re: Hatchery raised salmon
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2011, 11:43:01 PM »

Damn, that was great Matt! I learned a lot from that. Another question though...do hatcheries spawn predominantly HATCHERY fish as broodstock, or do they take wild ones to spawn with?

Well when it comes to salmon, there really is no such thing anymore as purely wild salmon on rivers with a hatchery program. On the river were I do broodstock we take both marked(wild) and unmarked(hatchery) fish. As for steelhead it is pretty much unmarked fish for broodstock.
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bluenoser

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Re: Hatchery raised salmon
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2011, 11:35:57 AM »

Thanks for the educated replies.

Seems like a damned if you do and damned if you don't situtation.

What if they released the hatchery fish at younger age?


http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=99347&page=1

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090610091224.htm

BN
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Geff_t

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Re: Hatchery raised salmon
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2011, 04:35:31 PM »

It's funny you say that because they want the coho to stay longer. We release half of our stock at the usual time and the other half about 4 months later.
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Matt

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Re: Hatchery raised salmon
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2011, 04:43:15 PM »

Thanks for the educated replies.

Seems like a damned if you do and damned if you don't situtation.

What if they released the hatchery fish at younger age?


http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=99347&page=1

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090610091224.htm


BN


Releasing them earlier might have some effect on the phenotype (just wiki this, too tired from studying to explain :) ), but it wouldnt' deal with the issue the lack of sexual selection in the male/female pairings so the genotype (genetic makeup) would likely be inferior to a wild fish.

I don't know if Id say we're damned if we do, damned if we don't as I think habitat enhancement, while slower to have an effect, is ultimately the best answer that I've been exposed to.
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skaha

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Re: Hatchery raised salmon
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2011, 05:10:01 PM »

--I'd say.. it all depends.... there is a counter argument and scientific evidence given for each statement.
--Check out the yearly studies on the Columbia river systems and tribs... you will find a set of Biologists who's research is funded by several native bands who have hatcheries to allow for commercial fishing... the will give an extensive list of technical fixes to issues such as Gene pool etc.
--Some would argue Gene pool can be diversified via hatchery and that undesirable characteristics will quickly be naturally eliminated.
--I believe there needs to be strict protocols before hatchery supplement is even considered and if implemented that habitat restoration and fishing regulation including both commercial and recreational must also be a part of an overall recovery plan. 
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Matt

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Re: Hatchery raised salmon
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2011, 07:09:11 PM »

--I'd say.. it all depends.... there is a counter argument and scientific evidence given for each statement.
--Check out the yearly studies on the Columbia river systems and tribs... you will find a set of Biologists who's research is funded by several native bands who have hatcheries to allow for commercial fishing... the will give an extensive list of technical fixes to issues such as Gene pool etc.
--Some would argue Gene pool can be diversified via hatchery and that undesirable characteristics will quickly be naturally eliminated.
--I believe there needs to be strict protocols before hatchery supplement is even considered and if implemented that habitat restoration and fishing regulation including both commercial and recreational must also be a part of an overall recovery plan. 

Consider the sexual selection process and the natural selection that takes place during the juvenile stage as filters in the gene pool.  You cannot remove those filters and not have a negative effect on the gene pool.

If you can find one peer-reviewed journal article that concludes that the hatchery process can *increase* the health of a genepool, I will eat the still-beating heart of the next hatchery coho I catch, on video and admit on camera that I know nothing of genetics.  I will stand by my word.
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Sandman

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Re: Hatchery raised salmon
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2011, 07:27:47 PM »

If you can find one peer-reviewed journal article that concludes that the hatchery process can *increase* the health of a genepool, I will eat the still-beating heart of the next hatchery coho I catch, on video and admit on camera that I know nothing of genetics.  I will stand by my word.

I love a challenge.  Consider the gauntlet picked up.

P.S. You said peer reviewed...you did not say the peers had to agree. ;D
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skaha

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Re: Hatchery raised salmon
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2011, 09:42:06 PM »

--Check out Andre Talbot -- discussion at the Columbia River Inter-Tribal Fish commission-- roughfly quoted from my notes  " using hatchery fish to increase genetic variance has value and natural selection will work to weed out less fit in the population"
--When I say .. some would argue... that does not mean I think we should do it... Just means I think it warrents further credible investigation without predjudice.
--Not saying we would want to do it but think about it.. if you have only 20 fish returning to a stream, they are limited in their selection and may not make the same selection of a mate given more choices.. thus if we dumped in a few fish from the columbia into the thompson into the same stream where 20 return.. the fish may not make the same choice of mate.  The isolated population has a limited gene pool from which to choose a mate they now have more choices of mates which come from a divergent population.
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Sandman

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Re: Hatchery raised salmon
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2011, 10:48:47 PM »

--Check out Andre Talbot -- discussion at the Columbia River Inter-Tribal Fish commission-- roughfly quoted from my notes  " using hatchery fish to increase genetic variance has value and natural selection will work to weed out less fit in the population"
--When I say .. some would argue... that does not mean I think we should do it... Just means I think it warrents further credible investigation without predjudice.
--Not saying we would want to do it but think about it.. if you have only 20 fish returning to a stream, they are limited in their selection and may not make the same selection of a mate given more choices.. thus if we dumped in a few fish from the columbia into the thompson into the same stream where 20 return.. the fish may not make the same choice of mate.  The isolated population has a limited gene pool from which to choose a mate they now have more choices of mates which come from a divergent population.


I found that too, but it is not peer reviewed...still looking for that ellusive abstract.
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Sandman

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Re: Hatchery raised salmon
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2011, 11:10:37 PM »

I found that too, but it is not peer reviewed...still looking for that ellusive abstract.

I got a lead on a peer reviewed article published in "Fisheries" magazine.  I just need to secure a copy!  MMMMM... hatchery coho heart.
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doja

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Re: Hatchery raised salmon
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2011, 11:48:46 PM »

Consider the sexual selection process and the natural selection that takes place during the juvenile stage as filters in the gene pool.  You cannot remove those filters and not have a negative effect on the gene pool.

So does the "natural selection process" only apply to the hatchery fish when first cultivated and then no longer apply when that fish mates and the cycle repeats (naturally) over the years. Would the new "diversity" not add to the local gene pool and if unfit be removed and back the way it was?

Would the hatchery program on the great lakes not be a "benefit" to the gene pool as they have now diversified to freshwater as opposed to just salt?

Also, the vedder which has incredible amounts of fish is doing quite well clearly due to the hatchery. Now, would these fish all become dumb and die off with out the hatchery... unlikely I would think. I'm sure the offspring will figure it out and do fine.

Fish stocks are declining and if it was not for hatchery's I'm sure we would be in trouble.... In the states it has brought back nearly wiped out runs....

Altering the gene pool will very well have an effect, but negative... could also be positive I would think.
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