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Author Topic: Lethal virus from European salmon found in wild BC salmon  (Read 291075 times)

Dave

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Re: Lethal virus from European salmon found in wild BC salmon
« Reply #60 on: October 30, 2011, 05:02:47 PM »

If there is not people like Alex trying to get too the bottom of this who is going to? Certainly not two levels of government or FOC who in my mind just try to cover up and hide the facts as well as put gag orders on some bureaucrats. I donot think that can be disputed.             

Chris, no one questions Ms. Morton's passion or her obvious love of wild salmon.  And I say good on her for that.
But sadly, she is wearing out her environmental voice because of misleading and erroneous statements, cherry picking data in attempts to make a point, misinterpreting results from studies she has no expertise or experience with. and generally embarrassing herself. You get my point.
IMO she has cried wolf to often and people are starting to realize that..

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Sandy

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Re: Lethal virus from European salmon found in wild BC salmon
« Reply #61 on: October 30, 2011, 05:08:39 PM »

Try reading what I actually wrote.... "At least most of us that support Morton do so because we believe she will help motivate government to get to the bottom of this and then fix it."

I have never said that I thought everything in her blog is true, nor have I questioned anyone's scientific research. However while we are critiquing each others motives and actions...  I would suggest that it seems since you have obtained a little education, you have in your own mind become an expert, who is not open to the possibility that someone else, looking at things from a different perspective could also know what they are talking about. Because of your attitude, folks like you are putting our whole west coast salmon at risk, putting all sorts of road blocks in place to try and prove the point that you are smarter than people like Morton.

I want to see more transparency in the investigations. While the truth may be what you suggest, I am not willing to accept your opinion just because you happen to know a little more about the science than I do. Where there is smoke there is usually fire.... and right now Morton and many of us see a lot of smoke!

motivate - embarrass, what ever!
There is no doubt of Ms Morton's motives, but I am concerned that there almost seems like there is a PR problem within her camp. The message seems to be getting out, but the messanger seems to be raising hackles with some, even though they seemingly are on the same side.
No doubt on her passion for the cause but...., and if she's right? most of us suspect somethings wrong. I just would have been happier seeing a report of some sort showing data, and endorsed by a recognised third party or institute. AS I said before.It would have been prudent to send out multiple sample and at least one to a leading news station or paper. This ,I think would quieten the honesty questions.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2011, 05:20:54 PM by Sandy »
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chris gadsden

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Re: Lethal virus from European salmon found in wild BC salmon
« Reply #62 on: October 30, 2011, 05:52:28 PM »

Chris, no one questions Ms. Morton's passion or her obvious love of wild salmon.  And I say good on her for that.
But sadly, she is wearing out her environmental voice because of misleading and erroneous statements, cherry picking data in attempts to make a point, misinterpreting results from studies she has no expertise or experience with. and generally embarrassing herself. You get my point.
IMO she has cried wolf to often and people are starting to realize that..


Only wearing out her environmental voice to a few and of course the government and fish farm people who have the most to lose. The government will do all they can to ride out the storm as they do not want to be proven wrong to allow these terrible farms in our once pristine ocean waters. :(

alwaysfishn

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Re: Lethal virus from European salmon found in wild BC salmon
« Reply #63 on: October 30, 2011, 06:45:02 PM »

I'm more concerned about the end result of this whole exercise. So what if a few folks are offended along the way and a few more don't like the way Morton is approaching this.  There are also more people that are becoming aware of the fish farm and DFO cover ups!  Dave I find your comment amusing....  "But sadly, she is wearing out her environmental voice because of misleading and erroneous statements, cherry picking data in attempts to make a point, misinterpreting results from studies she has no expertise or experience with. and generally embarrassing herself. You get my point.
IMO she has cried wolf to often and people are starting to realize that.."


I haven't sensed any empathy for Morton from you, only harsh criticism..  Now you are feeling sorry for her because she is "embarrassing herself" ?!?  It's an interesting tact but you will probably have more credibility if you just stick to criticizing her...  :D

My sense is more people.... are listening to her. The New York Times is a widely read paper, not your local Chilliwack Times....  :)
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StillAqua

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Re: Lethal virus from European salmon found in wild BC salmon
« Reply #64 on: October 30, 2011, 07:53:04 PM »

I'm more concerned about the end result of this whole exercise. So what if a few folks are offended along the way and a few more don't like the way Morton is approaching this. 
The willingness of many people today to so easily discard ethics, personal integrity, facts and reasoned discussion to acheive an "end result" is a major problem with our society today. And Alex wouldn't be the first person seduced by the celebrity of media and the need to be right at any cost. :(
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alwaysfishn

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Re: Lethal virus from European salmon found in wild BC salmon
« Reply #65 on: October 30, 2011, 10:11:10 PM »

The willingness of many people today to so easily discard ethics, personal integrity, facts and reasoned discussion to acheive an "end result" is a major problem with our society today. And Alex wouldn't be the first person seduced by the celebrity of media and the need to be right at any cost. :(

Curious you would direct those comments only at Morton.....   If you really felt that way you would direct those comments at DFO and the fish farmers as well, wouldn't you?

"Seduced by the media" - If she was really seduced by the media she would have run as an NDP candidate when she had the opportunity! She would have been paid better and she would have had more notoriety than defending Salmon!

"need to right at any cost" - The only cost that she is incurring here is to herself and her reputation. But I'm guessing that you are referring to the fact that by bringing the fish farms lack of respect for the environment to light, she created negative press for them and therefore awareness of the real and perceived devastation these farms are creating....

Change to the established way of doing things doesn't happen by itself. It takes people like Alex to trigger change.
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chris gadsden

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Re: Lethal virus from European salmon found in wild BC salmon
« Reply #66 on: October 31, 2011, 04:48:53 AM »

The willingness of many people today to so easily discard ethics, personal integrity, facts and reasoned discussion to acheive an "end result" is a major problem with our society today. And Alex wouldn't be the first person seduced by the celebrity of media and the need to be right at any cost. :(
In all respect, if you got to know her like I have the last year and a bit you would find that not to be true.

StillAqua

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Re: Lethal virus from European salmon found in wild BC salmon
« Reply #67 on: October 31, 2011, 07:27:53 AM »

Curious you would direct those comments only at Morton.....   If you really felt that way you would direct those comments at DFO and the fish farmers as well, wouldn't you?


"Many people" includes journalists, politicians, government bureaucrats, salmon farmers, scientists and even activists like Alex, and I would hold them all to to the same ethical standards on an issue that's so important to British Columbia.
You are the one AF who said "I'm more concerned about the end result of this whole exercise. So what if a few folks are offended along the way and a few more don't like the way Morton is approaching this. " Do you really believe the end justifies the means? I find that sad. I don't necessarily disagree with the end result of removing most if not all fish farms from the BC coast but it should be based on an open and honest assessment of the issue. I've found the Cohen Commission testimonies to have been very enlightening in that regard...
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StillAqua

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Re: Lethal virus from European salmon found in wild BC salmon
« Reply #68 on: October 31, 2011, 07:44:31 AM »

In all respect, if you got to know her like I have the last year and a bit you would find that not to be true.
I'm sure she's a wonderful, caring person but the NY Times article about the Fraser coho and her blog response to it are clearly media manipulation for a headline. She's clearly the source of the ISAV "diagnosis" for the NYTimes, then claims she wasn't allowed to tell us, that the PEI lab was "muzzled", but the "information" got out..... Sorry but those kinds of tactics are disingenuous at best.

"The New York Times did what I was not allowed to do - tell you there has been a second diagnosis of Infectious Salmon Anemia virus in wild BC salmon, this time in the Fraser River itself, the biggest wild salmon river in the world. The fish the New York Times is talking about is one that a small group of us picked up, sampled and sent to the world reference lab for the ISA virus. ......The lab never reported back to me, muzzled I suspect, but the information got out. We now have two diagnoses, 600 km apart, in two different species, of two different generations."



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alwaysfishn

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Re: Lethal virus from European salmon found in wild BC salmon
« Reply #69 on: October 31, 2011, 08:37:13 AM »

Do you really believe the end justifies the means? I find that sad.

The answer is yes in this case, because if we didn't have Alex Morton speaking out for the salmon, the public would be totally unaware of the damage the fish farms are doing. It may already be too late for the wild salmon, but at least we are semi aware of what is happening.

Besides, your suggestions that Morton is unethical and lacks personal integrity are your personal opinion and I think you would find it challenging to try and prove them.

I don't necessarily disagree with the end result of removing most if not all fish farms from the BC coast but it should be based on an open and honest assessment of the issue. I've found the Cohen Commission testimonies to have been very enlightening in that regard...

Get off the fence already! You've made this statement a few times. It doesn't mean anything. Either the farms should stay or they should go. Either they are damaging the ocean environment or they are not. The thing I like about people like Morton is they have a huge amount of personal integrity and courage to make a stand and back it up with action.
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alwaysfishn

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Re: Lethal virus from European salmon found in wild BC salmon
« Reply #70 on: October 31, 2011, 08:43:06 AM »

I'm sure she's a wonderful, caring person but the NY Times article about the Fraser coho and her blog response to it are clearly media manipulation for a headline. She's clearly the source of the ISAV "diagnosis" for the NYTimes, then claims she wasn't allowed to tell us, that the PEI lab was "muzzled", but the "information" got out..... Sorry but those kinds of tactics are disingenuous at best.

"The New York Times did what I was not allowed to do - tell you there has been a second diagnosis of Infectious Salmon Anemia virus in wild BC salmon, this time in the Fraser River itself, the biggest wild salmon river in the world. The fish the New York Times is talking about is one that a small group of us picked up, sampled and sent to the world reference lab for the ISA virus. ......The lab never reported back to me, muzzled I suspect, but the information got out. We now have two diagnoses, 600 km apart, in two different species, of two different generations."


This is the New York Times not the National Enquirer! The Times has a reputation to maintain and would not publish a story like this without being certain of the facts. To suggest that Morton could have successfully manipulated a story like this and gotten one of the largest papers in the world to publish it is just laughable.

If there is no basis to the story as you suggest, why haven't we heard that from the fish farm "experts"?
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Sandy

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Re: Lethal virus from European salmon found in wild BC salmon
« Reply #71 on: October 31, 2011, 09:08:23 AM »

why is it so hard to have those samples tested, with witnesses tested at differant labs? Does Government have the right to muzzle any lab from reporting back to it's client? this confuses me.
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finding your limits is fun, it can also be VERY painful.

If you care about Canada's future, get involved by holding your MLA's & MP's accountable!! don't just be sheep!!

troutbreath

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Re: Lethal virus from European salmon found in wild BC salmon
« Reply #72 on: October 31, 2011, 11:12:43 AM »

So those crasy parinoid Alaskans don't farm fish just because farmed salmon have had such a detrimental affect in other countries. Kudo's to them.



ISA virus is serious, so what's B.C. doing about it?
  By Dale Kelley, Special To The SunOctober 31, 2011
  While fishermen are alarmed to learn about the discovery of a European virus in wild British Columbia salmon, the news comes as no great surprise. Infectious Salmon Anemia (ISA) has erupted in every country that farms salmon. Why would anyone think Canada is immune? Despite the presence of this disease in East Coast farms, British Columbia still allows the importation of non-indigenous Atlantic salmon eggs from other countries. It was just a matter of time.

When Alaska banned fish farms, the top reason was to avoid disease spreading to our wild stocks. What was at stake was no mystery: Norway had already killed entire populations of wild fish due to parasites and disease introduced by imported salmon. Our state wisely chose to avoid such risk; yet folks to the south of us put us squarely in the path of what Alaskans feared the most.

As the representative of Alaska fishermen who rely exclusively on the health of wild fish, I am appalled by the near-silence of the Canadian agencies responsible to protect them. I've reserved comment in hopes that they would send some signal to the public, and West Coast fishermen in particular, that Canada is proactively engaged with a "fish first" attitude.

On Friday Oct. 21 - more than a week after ISA was detected in B.C. salmon - Canadian officials issued a press release devoid of any sense of urgency. They announced they will run more tests, wait several weeks for results, and only then, if additional testing reveals ISA, stakeholders will be convened to, "identify and take appropriate next steps." Really?!

It's sound practice to verify a diagnostic result, particularly one with significant ramifications. What seems beyond the pale is the decision to wait weeks before convening the experts to develop a plan of action. In fact, it's incredible there wasn't a contingency plan in place long before the first farmed fish was placed in an ocean net pen.

At minimum, you'd think the B.C. government would try to reassure us, by pointing to the experts they immediately pulled together to brainstorm how to evaluate the extent of the problem and methods to contain and control it. Instead, in his opening response to questions from the B.C. Legislature, Minister of Agriculture and Lands Don McRae quipped, "Well, we've got another example of spinning media headlines and fearmongering from the Opposition." Not exactly reassuring.

Dr. Frederick Kibenge, who diagnosed ISA in British Columbia, has both studied and diagnosed ISA outbreaks; he runs an ISA specialty lab. How strange that fisheries officials play down the findings of this respected scientist instead of fasttracking an investigation.

We've also read statements that minimize the threat to Pacific salmon. Yet Dr. Kibenge isolated ISA in Pacific coho salmon at a Chilean farm, where large numbers of coho died from the disease. Dr. James Winton, fish health section chief of the U.S. Geological Survey's Western Fisheries Research Center, has conducted much of the research on the topic. Winton has described last week's ISA finding as a "disease emergency" with "global implications."

Canadian officials need to explain to the public precisely what they are doing to monitor and enforce biological safeguards on the fish-farm industry. Canada and the U.S. have a responsibility to protect the wild public resources they hold in trust for us all.

I have no desire to strike fear into the hearts of the public or the fishermen I represent. However, we need transparency and assurance that appropriate steps are underway. If the Canadian government has information to quell our concerns, we have not yet heard it. If they have an effective plan of action, we have not yet seen it. How do fisheries professionals in Canada and along the West Coast intend to safeguard wild fish and fishing communities from the introduction of foreign disease strains now, and into the future? We're listening.

Dale Kelley is executive director of the Alaska Trollers Association.

© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun
« Last Edit: October 31, 2011, 03:31:21 PM by troutbreath »
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another SLICE of dirty fish perhaps?

StillAqua

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Re: Lethal virus from European salmon found in wild BC salmon
« Reply #73 on: October 31, 2011, 12:43:21 PM »

why is it so hard to have those samples tested, with witnesses tested at differant labs? Does Government have the right to muzzle any lab from reporting back to it's client? this confuses me.
They are doing it...it just takes time to follow proper viral protocols and verification tests. Some of us are waiting to see what unfolds. http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/anima/aqua/disemala/anaemia/20111021inde.shtml
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StillAqua

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Re: Lethal virus from European salmon found in wild BC salmon
« Reply #74 on: October 31, 2011, 12:48:21 PM »

This is the New York Times not the National Enquirer! The Times has a reputation to maintain and would not publish a story like this without being certain of the facts. To suggest that Morton could have successfully manipulated a story like this and gotten one of the largest papers in the world to publish it is just laughable.

There are no "facts" in the NY Times story AF. "In documents released Friday, an adult coho salmon supplied by salmon advocates to a prominent laboratory showed signs of carrying the disease." The "diagnosis" was not the results of a lab test, it was a opinion by her and her crew who have no qualifications to make any fish disease diagnosis.
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