Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Dave]

..... or until the wild salmon are all gone. 

alwaysfishin, do you honestly believe salmon farms raising Atlantic's will cause the extinction of Pacific salmon in BC ??
How many of Alex's blogs do you question, if any?
Not calling you out ... just asking as I want to try to understand your 'anti salmon aquaculture in BC' position.
I've spent a lot of time researching this subject, as I'm sure have you; so far I don't see any correlation between declining wild salmonid populations in BC and the salmon aquaculture industry.
Have you?

[chris gadsden]

Fish farms are just another of a long list of troubles our wild salmon stocks have been and are now facing. As in the past governments have not listened to the warnings from people that really care about preserving our fish for the future.

If more people had worked with Alex and others on her team like I have for the last couple of years they certainly would not say what they do.

She certainly would not been awarded a honorary degree from SFU for her work if it was not respected by many. http://youtu.be/tK6byowg93M

[alwaysfishn]

alwaysfishin, do you honestly believe salmon farms raising Atlantic's will cause the extinction of Pacific salmon in BC ??
How many of Alex's blogs do you question, if any?
Not calling you out ... just asking as I want to try to understand your 'anti salmon aquaculture in BC' position.
I've spent a lot of time researching this subject, as I'm sure have you; so far I don't see any correlation between declining wild salmonid populations in BC and the salmon aquaculture industry.
Have you?

Here's the problem Dave. No one knows what effect the salmon farms are having on the wild salmon. The reason no one knows is because the same people that are given the responsibility to protect wild salmon are the same people that are given the responsibility of building the open net fish farming business. The fear and suspicion is that DFO is "overlooking" the damage the fish farms bring to the environment in their efforts to expand this economic opportunity.

I'd be very happy to some day say "you were right about fish farms and I was wrong". Just because we don't see any correlation "so far" doesn't mean anything. I believe we only have one shot at getting this right! In the interim I'm not comfortable with putting my head in the sand and pretending the farms are harmless. 

By the way feel free to call me out.....  that's what a discussion forum is about.

[Every Day]

She certainly would not been awarded a honorary degree from SFU for her work if it was not respected by many. http://youtu.be/tK6byowg93M

That school is quite known to be "anti fish farming" so it doesn't surprise me that they would give it to her.
You don't need to be respected "by many" to get a honorary degree, just need to know people, and have friends within the university.
We were given examples of people given honorary degrees (even some by our school), and to be honest, if you've done something for the school or have connections within (such as she has with Rick Routledge that first off published the whole ISA thing) then you can get one. You don't need to have any training in that field at all.

By the way, since we are on the education thing and credibility... funny thing is,  Rick Routledge isn't even a scientist (in means of talking about biology, salmon, etc), his field of study is statistics and making models. Unfortunately, without proper science to back up models, they don't work. Another guy who was also a mathematician, named Krkosek, published a paper a few years back (2007) about pink salmon on the verge of extinction with Morton, and generated math models saying 80% of wild pink salmon were killed by sea lice from farms, and that 99% of the run would be gone within 2 cycles (4 years from then, which would be 2011). Truth was it was shoddy science that they were basing these numbers on (poor holding conditions of the fish, capturing weak fish in the wild along the surface, etc), and he lost a lot of credibility by means of that, but no one ever talks about it any more. When DFO was granted with the data used to compile that report, they found that the study left out much information that went against their hypothesis, up to 90% of the information was left out of the generation used to make the models! Looks like they were totally right about pinks being extinct by this year  

Cheers,
Dan

[Every Day]

The reason no one knows is because the same people that are given the responsibility to protect wild salmon are the same people that are given the responsibility of building the open net fish farming business.

As far as I know... and maybe Dave can correct me if I'm wrong...

Until very recently, DFO was provincial and fish farms were run by federal. They has nothing to do with each other, which is now why everything has switched to federal, resulting in all the cuts in officers, cuts in funding for steelhead, cuts in everything.

[alwaysfishn]

As far as I know... and maybe Dave can correct me if I'm wrong...

Until very recently, DFO was provincial and fish farms were run by federal. They has nothing to do with each other, which is now why everything has switched to federal, resulting in all the cuts in officers, cuts in funding for steelhead, cuts in everything.

I'll correct you, but if Dave wants to he can confirm..... 

DFO has always been a federal department. Fish farms expansion was a joint responsibility with the BC provincial government from the beginning. However as a result of Morton pointing out that the oceans are a federal responsibility (like they didn't already know that), and taking it to court, the province turned over all responsibility for fish farms to DFO. Of course the province benefits as a result of the corporate and payroll taxes they collect from fish farm employees.

By the way DFO is the federal department that was also responsible for managing the east coast cod fish into extinction.....  I don't want to see them manage the west coast wild salmon in the same way!

[chris gadsden]

Please find enclosed a press update including:

 

"Deadly virus found in wild Pacific salmon: Killer virus which spreads like wildfire is causing concern among US scientists and fishermen" (Al Jazeera, 28th November): http://www.aljazeera.com/news/americas/2011/11/201111280525478433.html

 

"Chile antibiotics usage drops, but levels remain high: Country used 143 metric tons of antibiotics in 2010 -- an average of 0.34 kilo per ton of salmon" (Intrafish, 28th November): http://www.intrafish.com/global/news/article1261787.ece

 

"GE salmon approval creates growing list of 'what if' scenarios" (Western Farm Press, 28th November): http://westernfarmpress.com/government/ge-salmon-approval-creates-growing-list-what-if-scenarios

 

"Jumping salmon: A cure for sea lice?" (Seafood Source, 28th November): http://www.seafoodsource.com/newsarticledetail.aspx?id=13036

 

"Salmon farmers greatly reduce wild fish bycatch" (FIS, 28th November): http://www.fis.com/fis/worldnews/worldnews.asp?monthyear=&day=28&id=47949&l=e&special=&ndb=1%20target=

 

"Anglers condemn cash deal with fish farmers" (Scotland on Sunday, 27th November): http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday/scotland/anglers_condemn_cash_deal_with_fish_farmers_1_1987314

 

"U.S. diners still wary of farmed fish?" (Seafood Source, 27th November): http://www.seafoodsource.com/newsarticledetail.aspx?id=13029

 

"Simple evidence is that fish farms cause harm" (The Daily News, 26th November): http://www.canada.com/Simple+evidence+that+fish+farms+cause+harm/5771977/story.html

 

"ISA testing must be transparent, scientific" (The Daily News, 26th November): http://www.canada.com/testing+must+transparent+scientific/5771978/story.html

 

"Ewan Kennedy: The impacts of fish farming" (For Argyll, 26th November): http://forargyll.com/2011/11/ewan-kennedy-the-impacts-of-fish-farming/

 

"Council work to expedite setting up of fish farms" (Waikato Times, 26th November): http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/6039859/Council-work-to-expedite-setting-up-of-fish-farms

 

"Salmon analysts: Worse still to come for farmers" (Intrafish, 25th November): http://www.intrafish.com/global/news/article1261756.ece

 

"Atlantic salmon debacle being repeated in the North Pacific" (Anchorage Daily News, 25th November): http://www.adn.com/2011/11/25/2189137/atlantic-salmon-debacle-being.html

 

"Maggots Nurtured For Protein Feed Alternative" (The Fish Site, 25th November): http://www.thefishsite.com/fishnews/15983/maggots-nurtured-for-protein-feed-alternative

 

"An argument of biblical proportions" (The Courier-Islander, 25th November): http://www2.canada.com/courierislander/news/opinion/story.html?id=4e4ea5a9-feb8-4e97-8b31-1c102262b6ad

 

"Salmon face worse threat than ISA" (North Island Gazette, 25th November): http://www.northislandgazette.com/opinion/letters/134406078.html
 

"Canadian Aquaculture Association elects new slate of officers" (Fish Farming Xpert, 24th November): http://www.fishfarmingxpert.com/index.php?page_id=76&article_id=93176

 

"Case Watch: Cohen Commission to have further hearings on new Infectious Salmon Anemia virus findings" (Suite 210, 22nd November): http://www.ngariss.com/blog/2011/11/22/case-watch-cohen-commission-to-have-further-hearings-on-new-infectious-salmon-anemia-virus-findings/

 

 

Including from Derek Spragg writing in The Daily News:

 

"Ms. Walling, I have just finished reading a book entitled, Merchants of Doubt - How a Handful of Scientists Obscured the Truth from Tobacco Smoke to Global Warming. You fit right in. I am currently reading Silent Spring, again, you fit right in and so does your fish-farming industry."

 

From Liz Fox writing in The Daily News:

 

"Cohen inquiry evidence invites suspicion of the salmon farming lobby. Standards for the importation of Atlantic salmon eggs were relaxed in 2004, ISA is apparently is not on the egg import forms or a reportable disease by salmon farms, likely because ISA is so prevalent in Atlantic Salmon that no-one can give a disease free declaration. ISA-like lesions found by a salmon farm veterinarian were apparently never reported."

 

 

Note that on 15th & 16th December there will be an ISA hearing at the Cohen Commission – details online here (more background here).   

 

 

For background on the global spread of ISA read "ISA: Diary of Disease Disaster" and "Fish Farmageddon: The Infectious Salmon Aquacalypse" – online via:  http://www.wildsalmonfirst.org/fish-farmageddon-infectious-salmon-aquacalypse

 

Read the official reports from the Canadian Food Inspection Agency on the second case of ISA in coho salmon in the Fraser River - online here

 

Read the report from the OIE Reference Laboratory on the positive samples in Fraser River chinook and chum – online here

 

Read the first official report of the European strain of ISA in sockeye salmon in Rivers Inlet on the Central Coast - online here

 

Read the Norwegian laboratory report on the 6th and 7th positive tests for ISA in Fraser River coho and sockeye – online here

 

More details via "Chronology of a Cover-Up in Canada: ISA in British Columbia"

 

 

Best fishes,

 

Don

[chris gadsden]

Salmon virus is not the problem that some claim
  By Mary Ellen Walling, The Daily News November 23, 2011   Re: 'Ottawa failing to act as required on ISA problem' (Your Letters, Nov. 22)

It's unfortunate that Ruby Berry at the Georgia Strait Alliance hasn't updated her information on the work that the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and the Canadian Food Inspection Agency are doing to follow up on two inconclusive tests for ISA in British Columbia widely publicized by Simon Fraser University.

Contrary to what she says, significant follow-up testing has taken place showing that these samples were in fact, negative for ISA. Further testing was done on other samples as well, all proving negative. Some samples collected as part of the follow up investigation were too degraded to be tested - but many were not, and the testing has shown that those initial results were in fact, false.

The Canadian Food Inspection Agency, along with the DFO is now, as a result, also reviewing sampling programs to ensure that their monitoring is robust and accurate.

Our farmers are continuing their sampling program as well - a program that has tested nearly 5,000 fish, and found no ISA in British Columbia salmon farms.

Mary Ellen Walling Executive Director B.C. Salmon Farmers Association

Simple evidence is that fish farms cause harm
  By Derek Spragg, The Daily News November 26, 2011   Re: 'Salmon virus is not the problem that some claim' (Daily News, Nov. 23)

I am responding to the letter from Mary-Ellen Walling.

Ms. Walling, I have just finished reading a book entitled, Merchants of Doubt - How a Handful of Scientists Obscured the Truth from Tobacco Smoke to Global Warming. You fit right in. I am currently reading Silent Spring, again, you fit right in and so does your fish-farming industry.

I am not a fisherman, biologist or scientist but I can read. I have been following the wild versus farmed debate for more than 10 years now and have spent some days at the Cohen Commission as well.

Because I am an ordinary Joe and not one of the so-called "experts," I have to rely on anecdotal evidence. The evidence I see is simple. Anywhere (in the world) fish-farms are put in the ocean the wild fish suffer. When the farms are removed, wild fish return.

Sadly you do the world a great disservice with your continual support for this industry - which, incidentally, cries out to be put on land. But at the moment all I see is money at any cost and profit over people.

Derek Spragg

Vancouver

[chris gadsden]

The 2 D's please check this out.

http://www.superheroes4salmon.org/blog/canadian-cover-infectious-salmon-virus-leaked-report-reveals-over-100-positive-isa-cases-farmed

[Every Day]

As said no one knows much about any virus'. New ones are always being discovered. This could be a case, as no salmon tested from what I have read were showing any signs of symptoms of ISA. One asymptomatic strain has already been discovered, why must this be "the deadly European one brought by farmed salmon" and not a new species that has always been native to BC and was never tested for because it shows no symptoms and there has never been a need (until someone was trying to pin something on farms).

“These results lead us to conclude that an asymptomatic form of ISA occurs among some species of wild Pacific salmon in the north Pacific.”
Right out of the paper.

Who is to say that our pacific salmon haven't always had a strain of ISA that they have become adapted to, one that is asymptomatic. Why is it automatically assumed that the farmed salmon brought it over? If it was the European strain, it most definitely should have killed those farmed Atlantic's, but it didn't making me believe it isn't the same strain and probably wasn't brought over by them.

What's even more interesting is the fact all 64 Cultus Sockeye were infected. I wonder if anyone has ever tested for ISA within the lake, possibly for a new strain native to here (Maybe something to look into). It would make sense if all the fish are infected, kind of like a biological marker (maybe test other fish spp in the lake as well). It also seems to me that they must be resilient to it, as stocks have started to come back rather than decline.

Personally, there is way too much to worry about already in this world. I'm not gonna rip my hair out over this one like so many people are, when there is still no solid evidence and no confirmed symptomatic reports.

Cheers,
Dan

[holmes]

so yer gonna wait till something goes wrong to rip your hair out?, when there are no fish? i would rather have no hair now and have fish in the future personally... ..holmes*

[Dave]

Very interesting indeed.  Dollars to doughnuts this story will unfold a bit over the next little while.  ED, I like your thoughts on Cultus sockeye.   If this is real (I respect Simon Jones way too much to buy this, as currently presented) and was data collected in 2004 it would have been me doing the viral analysis sampling from these captive brood fish but we were testing for IHNV, not ISAV.
Guaranteed, if this reported strain of ISAV was a form lethal to onchorhynchus species, the Cultus sockeye hatchery program and probably a few other salmon hatcheries nearby would have ended that day.

[StillAqua]

After reading the so called "leaked" report and Jones and Kibenge's comments, and what the Norwegian Nyland said about the samples he looked at, it appears two different labs could get two different results using the RT-PCR tests on the same samples. Sounds like they need to figure out exactly what it is all these labs think they are measuring!

It would be interesting if they found out that non-disease causing ISA is natural to Pacific salmon and other non-salmon species in our waters that could act as a natural reservoir for infecting farmed Atlantics with ISA strains. That would make all salmon farming too risky on our coast because the wild fish could infect and wipe out the Atlantic salmon industry if a disease forming strain subsequently evolved in the fish farms from a wild salmon ISA virus. Perhaps the wild salmon will take matters into their own fins!

[alwaysfishn]

All your speculation about ISA is a red herring.......   the real story here is in the headline of the report Chris posted ! "Canadian Cover-Up on Infectious Salmon Virus - Leaked report reveals over 100 positive ISA cases in farmed and wild salmon"

Obviously ISA has been present for a while. The denials by DFO and the fish farms is criminal, when they obviously were aware of these tests!

The fact is the same people that have been given the responsibility to protect wild salmon are the same people that are responsible for building the open net fish farming business   .......and we are supposed to trust them to look after the wild salmon??

[chris gadsden]

Please find enclosed a press update including:

 
"Deadly Salmon-Virus Tests Kept Secret for Years by Canada, Leaked Documents Say" (Seattle Weekly, 30th November): http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/2011/11/deadly_salmon_virus_tests_kept.php

 

"Cantwell irked by unpublished salmon virus study" (The Associated Press/Seattle Times, 30th November): http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2016895088_apwasalmonvirus.html

 

"Canada kept detection of salmon virus secret" (The Seattle Times/Boston Herald/Miami Herald/Sacramento Bee/The Olympian/Vancouver Sun, 30th November): http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2016890291_salmonvirus30m.html

 

"Canadian scientists spar over presence of salmon virus off B.C. coast" (The Canadian Free Press/Global News/CBC/Brandon Sun/Winnipeg Free Press, 30th November): http://www.globalnews.ca/canadian+scientists+spar+over+presence+of+salmon+virus+off+bc+coast/6442532112/story.html

 

"A 'smoking salmon' report: Was deadly fish virus detected years ago?" (Seattle Post-Intelligencer, 29th November): http://www.seattlepi.com/local/connelly/article/A-smoking-salmon-report-Was-deadly-fish-virus-2309866.php

 

"Fish farms fined for pesticide compliance violations" (The Chronicle Herald, 29th November): http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/37708-fish-farms-fined-pesticide-compliance-violations

 

"700,000 salmon may be on the run" (Aftenposten, 29th November): http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/700000-laks-kan-vre-p-rmmen-6709912.html

 

"Hundreds of thousands of salmon may be on the run" (NRK, 29th November): http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/nrk_trondelag/1.7895984?mid=53

 

"How to stop sea lice? Make salmon jump" (Futurity, 29th November): http://www.futurity.org/science-technology/how-to-stop-sea-lice-make-salmon-jump/

 

"China's first salmon farm could affect market for Alaska seafood" (Alaska Dispatch, 29th November): http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/chinas-first-salmon-farm-could-affect-market-alaska-seafood

 

"AgriMarine on track for growth" (Intrafish, 29th November): http://www.intrafish.com/global/news/article1261943.ece

 

"A salmon revolution?: Craft-raised salmon makes believers out of California distributor and chefs" (Intrafish, 29th November): http://www.intrafish.com/global/news/article1261944.ece

 

"Fish farms cut workforce: Marine Harvest cites global meat glut for Campbell River cutbacks" (The Times Colonist, 28th November): http://www.timescolonist.com/business/Fish+farms+workforce/5780562/story.html

 

 

Note that on 15th & 16th December there will be an ISA hearing at the Cohen Commission – details online here (more background here).   

 

 

Read the leaked Canadian Government report detailing over 100 positive tests for ISA in farmed Atlantic and wild Pacific salmon – online via 'Fishyleaks'

 

For background on the global spread of ISA read "ISA: Diary of Disease Disaster" and "Fish Farmageddon: The Infectious Salmon Aquacalypse" – online via:  http://www.wildsalmonfirst.org/fish-farmageddon-infectious-salmon-aquacalypse

 

Read the official reports from the Canadian Food Inspection Agency on the second case of ISA in coho salmon in the Fraser River - online here

 

Read the report from the OIE Reference Laboratory on the positive samples in Fraser River chinook and chum – online here

 

Read the first official report of the European strain of ISA in sockeye salmon in Rivers Inlet on the Central Coast - online here

 

Read the Norwegian laboratory report on the 6th and 7th positive tests for ISA in Fraser River coho and sockeye – online here

 

More details via "Chronology of a Cover-Up in Canada: ISA in British Columbia"

 

 

Best fishes,

 

Don