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Author Topic: Lethal virus from European salmon found in wild BC salmon  (Read 291533 times)

absolon

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Re: Lethal virus from European salmon found in wild BC salmon
« Reply #405 on: December 20, 2011, 11:35:00 AM »

A comparison of what Morton learned from the hearings compared to what I've learned form reading just a single day of it is quite revealing.

I would highly recommend that anyone who wants to be truly informed should read the transcript. There is considerably more involved with each of the issues than what Morton learned or what Staniford shouts at you in videos or what the media has reported.

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Bassonator

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Re: Lethal virus from European salmon found in wild BC salmon
« Reply #406 on: December 20, 2011, 12:54:07 PM »

Thanx for posting that Absolon very informative. Funny how things get respun by certain interest groups, and the media sucks it all up....
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StillAqua

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Re: Lethal virus from European salmon found in wild BC salmon
« Reply #407 on: December 20, 2011, 01:47:10 PM »

Very interesting read, thanks. Takes a while to get the French translation before they can post the public version on the Cohen website (we are a bilingual country after all).
One of the problems with Millers emerging data is it still has go through the scientific peer review process so conclusions could change. You can see a bit of it when Nyland started questioning her about her methods, her pre-amplification process, and some codon irregularities in the sequences. Tough for her to be baring her data and preliminary thoughts and scientific soul without the rigours of peer review to back it up.
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absolon

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Re: Lethal virus from European salmon found in wild BC salmon
« Reply #408 on: December 20, 2011, 03:27:59 PM »

Though I'm no expert by any stretch, Nylund's questioning stood out for me as well and I didn't think it was satisfactorily addressed. The fact that the primers were contributing to the sequences obtained and the sequencing was substituting for a positive control in calibrating the test and confirmation of identification was based on that sequencing seems to create a weak point in the logical process that requires attention.
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Easywater

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Re: Lethal virus from European salmon found in wild BC salmon
« Reply #409 on: December 20, 2011, 04:20:33 PM »

Wow, 3 pro fish farmers slapping each other on the back in victory without actually saying anything of consequence.

Here's what I got out of what I have been able to read so far:

DFO dismissed ISAv positives because the virus could not be cultured (grown in a petri dish) when it is widely accepted that ISAv cannot be cultured from wild fish samples (EG: Sockeye).

They have been sampling the livers of wild Pacific salmon (non-Atlantics) but they don't really know where ISAv lives in wild Pacific salmon so they are just guessing as to whether they are sampling the proper tissue.

It turns out that the different labs that test for ISAv use different methods - they use different "primers" (genetic information amplifiers) and test different segments of the RNA (genetic information) molecule.

One of the things that really stands out to me is the failure of the fish farm companies to supply fish to Miller for testing when push came to shove after all of them agreed to do it near the beginning of the Cohen enquiry.

What appears to be happening is that the virus can live in wild Pacific salmon (carriers / reservoirs) without any consequences - other than passing it on to Altantics which get infected with the ISA disease. The choice of using Atlantics as a farmed fish is really unfortunate.

ISAv is similar to the "flu" - it is a virus that can be passed from one fish to another through a number of possible ways.
ISA disease is carried by the virus and causes a fish's red blood cells to become damaged and they die from a lack of oxygen (anemia).

ISA info from Wikipedia: The liver and spleen may be swollen, congested or partially already dead. The circulatory system may stop working, and the blood may be contaminated with dead blood cells. Red blood cells still present often burst easily and the numbers of immature and damaged blood cells are increased.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infectious_salmon_anemia_virus
« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 04:22:20 PM by Easywater »
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absolon

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Re: Lethal virus from European salmon found in wild BC salmon
« Reply #410 on: December 20, 2011, 04:32:59 PM »

Good on you for actually taking the time to read it.
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alwaysfishn

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Re: Lethal virus from European salmon found in wild BC salmon
« Reply #411 on: December 20, 2011, 05:14:37 PM »

Wow, 3 pro fish farmers slapping each other on the back in victory without actually saying anything of consequence.

Here's what I got out of what I have been able to read so far:

DFO dismissed ISAv positives because the virus could not be cultured (grown in a petri dish) when it is widely accepted that ISAv cannot be cultured from wild fish samples (EG: Sockeye).

They have been sampling the livers of wild Pacific salmon (non-Atlantics) but they don't really know where ISAv lives in wild Pacific salmon so they are just guessing as to whether they are sampling the proper tissue.

It turns out that the different labs that test for ISAv use different methods - they use different "primers" (genetic information amplifiers) and test different segments of the RNA (genetic information) molecule.

One of the things that really stands out to me is the failure of the fish farm companies to supply fish to Miller for testing when push came to shove after all of them agreed to do it near the beginning of the Cohen enquiry.

What appears to be happening is that the virus can live in wild Pacific salmon (carriers / reservoirs) without any consequences - other than passing it on to Altantics which get infected with the ISA disease. The choice of using Atlantics as a farmed fish is really unfortunate.

ISAv is similar to the "flu" - it is a virus that can be passed from one fish to another through a number of possible ways.
ISA disease is carried by the virus and causes a fish's red blood cells to become damaged and they die from a lack of oxygen (anemia).

ISA info from Wikipedia: The liver and spleen may be swollen, congested or partially already dead. The circulatory system may stop working, and the blood may be contaminated with dead blood cells. Red blood cells still present often burst easily and the numbers of immature and damaged blood cells are increased.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infectious_salmon_anemia_virus


Thanks Easywater. Nice way to condense it.

Your power of observation is also uncanny!   ;D  ;D  "Wow, 3 pro fish farmers slapping each other on the back in victory without actually saying anything of consequence."  .... although I'm still looking to find the evidence of any victory.....
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chris gadsden

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Re: Lethal virus from European salmon found in wild BC salmon
« Reply #412 on: December 21, 2011, 09:39:35 AM »

Please find enclosed a press update including:

 

"Salmon feedlots articles from around planet earth" (Legacy, January 2012): http://issuu.com/steelhead-salmon-society/docs/legacy112

 

"Cohen Commission: Intensive probe to test nearly 8,000 B.C. salmon for disease" (The Globe & Mail, 21st December): http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/intensive-probe-to-test-nearly-8000-bc-salmon-for-disease/article2278794/

 

"Unfit Salmon and ‘Plain Old Darwinian Selection’" (The New York Times, 21st December): http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/21/unfit-salmon-and-plain-old-darwinian-selection/

 

"Local activists join province-wide wild salmon protest: Confusion, controversy over salmon anemia virus" (Lillooet News, 21st December): http://www.lillooetnews.net/article/20111221/LILLOOET0101/312219984/-1/lillooet/local-activists-join-province-wide-wild-salmon-protest

 

"Wild Salmon advocates speak out against DFO" (Lillooet News, 21st December): http://www.lillooetnews.net/article/20111221/LILLOOET0602/312219992/-1/lillooet/wild-salmon-advocates-speak-out-against-dfo

 

"Government should not be subsidizing GE salmon" (The Times Standard, 21st December): http://www.times-standard.com/guest_opinion/ci_19591609

 

"Salmon Virus Testing Ban Suggested" (CBC, 20th December): http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2011/12/20/technology-cohen-salmon-virus.html

 

"Damien Gillis Discusses Cohen Commission and ISA Virus on CBC's Early Edition"  (The Common Sense Canadian, 20th December):

http://thecanadian.org/k2/item/1232-damien-cbc-cohen-commission-dec-19

 

"Fish Flu Found in Clayoquot Salmon: Dr. Kristi Miller finds ISA virus in Creative Salmon farms" (Friends of Clayoquot Sound, 20th December): http://hosted.verticalresponse.com/717441/8f4c07fa18/281632219/69923beea6/

 

"Scientists, lawyers spar with Canadian government: Cohen Commission hearings wrap up with unresolved scientific questions" (Intrafish, 20th December): http://www.intrafish.com/global/news/article1263666.ece

 

"Battle to Put Genetically Engineered Fish on Dinner Tables: Environmental groups concerned over dangers "frankenfish" may pose" (The Epoch Times, 20th December): http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/united-states/battle-to-put-genetically-engineered-fish-on-dinner-tables-161957.html

"Exposed: Genetically-modified salmon found to be contaminated with infectious salmon anemia" (Natural News, 19th December): http://www.naturalnews.com/034451_GM_salmon_anemia_infections.html

 

"The shores of malfeasance" (The Courier-Islander, 16th December): http://www2.canada.com/courierislander/news/opinion/story.html?id=8e0b8b0a-f3c1-4dc3-8597-a12d609af7e4

 

 

Listen online to CBC's Curt Petrovich on the ISA cover-up - audio online now! http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/Shows/1221254309/ID=2178690939

 

 

Read the leaked a transcript of Day 1 and other exhibits including ISA in Creative Salmon and AquaBounty farmed salmon - online via 'Fishyleaks'

 

More details via "Chronology of a Cover-Up in Canada: ISA in British Columbia" and "What's Cohen On?"

 

For background on the global spread of ISA read "ISA: Diary of Disease Disaster" and "Fish Farmageddon: The Infectious Salmon Aquacalypse" – online via:  http://www.wildsalmonfirst.org/fish-farmageddon-infectious-salmon-aquacalypse

 

 

Best fishes,

 

Don

alwaysfishn

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Re: Lethal virus from European salmon found in wild BC salmon
« Reply #413 on: December 21, 2011, 02:56:28 PM »

It's worthwhile listening to this tape: particularly from approximately the 7.5 minute point.

http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/Shows/1221254309/ID=2178690939

The fish samples that Dr Kibenge tested and found ISAV in were then confiscated by CFIA and retested. DFO and CFIA along with the government spokesmen came out and said that they found no signs of ISAV in the samples. When the CFIA scientists were questioned about the tests, they stated that they couldn't find ISAV because the samples had deteriorated to the point they were unusable. Meaning that no valid tests were actually done to be able to confirm or dispute Dr Kibenge's tests!

That's a whole different story than "There was no ISAV found!"  Then CFIA and DFO went on a campaign to search Dr Kibenge's labs to try and find something in his lab that they could point to and tell the world that his testing capability was inferior. This is the same Dr that was capable enough to discover the ISAV in the Chilean fish farms.

What a web of lies! Bottom line is, ISAV exists in BC.

 

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Dave

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Re: Lethal virus from European salmon found in wild BC salmon
« Reply #414 on: December 21, 2011, 05:00:59 PM »

Af, are you interested in the fish or just the politics of this media induced FU?  :D :D :D
Personally I think the Communication people from DFO and the PMO have failed the people who really care, like us posters, about what's happening.  The fact that DFO Science branch people were told not to comment on this stuff is just wrong as so much of this crap could have been avoided.
Yeah, this virus has been here a long time, that's always been suspected but because, and this is the important part, it has not been linked to any documented mortalities to wild salmon or farmed Atlantic salmon, it was off the radar. There was no need to test for it.  Many others virus's common to the Pacific area like IHN or IPN could have a much larger impact on wild and hatchery produced salmon but, if nothing more comes from this Cohen thing we know one recommendation surely must be more funding to study these disease issues.
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chris gadsden

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Re: Lethal virus from European salmon found in wild BC salmon
« Reply #415 on: December 21, 2011, 05:19:10 PM »

Af, are you interested in the fish or just the politics of this media induced FU?  :D :D :D
Personally I think the Communication people from DFO and the PMO have failed the people who really care, like us posters, about what's happening.  The fact that DFO Science branch people were told not to comment on this stuff is just wrong as so much of this crap could have been avoided.
Yeah, this virus has been here a long time, that's always been suspected but because, and this is the important part, it has not been linked to any documented mortalities to wild salmon or farmed Atlantic salmon, it was off the radar. There was no need to test for it.  Many others virus's common to the Pacific area like IHN or IPN could have a much larger impact on wild and hatchery produced salmon but, if nothing more comes from this Cohen thing we know one recommendation surely must be more funding to study these disease issues.
"The fact that DFO Science branch people were told not to comment on this stuff is just wrong as so much of this crap could have been avoided."

This I would say hits the nail on the head as DFO and the government tried to cover this up as they knew there was and is a problem with this ISAv. :( :'(

Dave

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Re: Lethal virus from European salmon found in wild BC salmon
« Reply #416 on: December 21, 2011, 06:12:40 PM »

Sorry Chris, what's the problem ??? Other than politicians doing a poor job I'm still waiting to what salmon mortalities are attributed to this.
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alwaysfishn

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Re: Lethal virus from European salmon found in wild BC salmon
« Reply #417 on: December 21, 2011, 06:39:49 PM »

Sorry Chris, what's the problem ??? Other than politicians doing a poor job I'm still waiting to what salmon mortalities are attributed to this.

See that's the problem Dave........   You want to see a whole lot of dead fish before you are willing admit there is a problem. It will be too late when you have a lot of dead fish!

What I don't think you understand is the longer this issue is undefined, the more the activists will bring this issue to the public, which will hurt the salmon farmer's sales. Morton has figured this out and I doubt she will be backing off any time soon. The politicians have made the issue worse by lying to us and attempting a cover-up. They have lost the public's trust!
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chris gadsden

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Re: Lethal virus from European salmon found in wild BC salmon
« Reply #418 on: December 21, 2011, 07:12:00 PM »

Please find enclosed a press update including:

 

"Commerce vs Wild Salmon" (Alexandra Morton, 20th December): http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/alexandra_morton/2011/12/the-re-opening-of-the-cohen-inquiry-on-isa-virus-provided-an-opportunity-to-see-past-the-pr-machine-that-protects-salmon-farm.html

 

"Getting facts straight on fish farming risk in B.C" (Alberni Valley Times, 20th December): http://www2.canada.com/albernivalleytimes/story.html?id=28fac580-b41f-4f17-86f1-b7aea8608fae

 

"Fish protest pays visit to MP's office" (Chilliwack Times, 20th December): http://www.chilliwacktimes.com/news/Fish+protest+pays+visit+office/5886042/story.html

 

"Cohen Aquaculture Daily – December 19, 2011" (Watershed Watch, 20th December): http://www.watershed-watch.org/2011/12/cohen-aquaculture-daily-december-19-2011/

"Hardest work still to come as Cohen hearings conclude" (The Globe & Mail, 20th December): http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/bc-politics/hardest-work-still-to-come-as-cohen-hearings-conclude/article2277224/?utm_medium=Feeds%3A%20RSS%2FAtom&utm_source=Home&utm_content=2277224

 

"Salmon disease is caused by many factors: Nofima" (FIS, 20th December): http://www.fis.com/fis/worldnews/worldnews.asp?monthyear=&day=20&id=48613&l=e&special=&ndb=1%20target=

 

"U.S. smoked fish crackdown hits hard: Recalls skyrocket as FDA increases investigations into smoked salmon companies" (Intrafish, 20th December): http://www.intrafish.com/global/news/article1263281.ece

 

"‘High levels’ of Listeria trigger UK salmon recall" (Food Production Daily, 19th December): http://www.foodproductiondaily.com/Quality-Safety/High-levels-of-Listeria-trigger-UK-salmon-recall

 

"Damien Gillis on the salmon inquiry" (CBC Early Edition, 19th December): http://www.cbc.ca/earlyedition/past-episodes/2011/12/19/lillooet-flood-beauty-nights-salmon-inquiry-missing-womens-inquiry-political-panel-kim-jong-il-go-pu/

 

"Critics say email shows salmon inspectors' bias" (Surrey North Delta Leader, 19th December): http://www.surreyleader.com/news/135887038.html

 

"SALMONGATE: ‘Joe’ at the Canadian Food Inspection Agency says: “It is clear that we are turning the PR tide to our favour… and we will win the war, also.”" (The Salmon Guy, 19th December): http://www.salmonguy.org/?p=4717

 

"Responsible approach to GM fish is to assume escape: Committee hearing" (Food Navigator, 19th December): http://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/Regulation/Responsible-approach-to-GM-fish-is-to-assume-escape-Committee-hearing

 

"Speed up the process is salmon farmers' Christmas wish" (Campbell River Mirror, 19th December): http://www.bclocalnews.com/business/135884028.html

 

"BC Salmon Farmers mark one-year anniversary of Pacific Aquaculture Regulations" (BC Salmon Farmers Association, 19th December): http://salmonfarmers.org/bc-salmon-farmers-mark-one-year-anniversary-pacific-aquaculture-regulations

 

"It’s a small science world" (Salmon Farm Science, 19th December): http://salmonfarmscience.com/2011/12/19/its-a-small-science-world/

 

"High-speed evolution: Study shows salmon can change their genes in a single generation" (The Daily Mail, 19th December): http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2076275/High-speed-evolution-Study-shows-salmon-change-genes-single-generation.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

 

"Aquaculture could help feed rising world demand for protein: Fish farming needs fewer resources than raising livestock and can be more environmentally sound than open-water fishing" (Christian Science Monitor, 19th December): http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Making-a-difference/Change-Agent/2011/1219/Aquaculture-could-help-feed-rising-world-demand-for-protein

 

"Salmon Wars: Cohen & Attack of the PR Flacks" (Pacific Free Press, 18th December): http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1-/10469-salmon-wars-cohen-a-attack-of-the-pr-flacks.html

 

"Fish Flu Found in Clayoquot Salmon: ISA Virus Creative Salmon Farms" (Friends of Clayoquot Sound, 16th December): www.focs.ca

 

"Begich Chairs Hearing on Genetically Engineered Salmon" (Alaska Public, 16th December): http://www.alaskapublic.org/2011/12/16/begich-chairs-hearing-on-genetically-engineered-salmon/

 

"Australia grows as roe supplier in Chile" (Fish Farming Xpert, 16th December): http://www.fishfarmingxpert.com/index.php?page_id=76&article_id=93412

 

"An academic pissing match" (Salmon Farm Science, 16th December): http://salmonfarmscience.com/2011/12/16/an-academic-pissing-match/

 

"If they’re not detecting ISA, what are they detecting?" (Salmon Farm Science, 9th December): http://salmonfarmscience.com/2011/12/09/if-theyre-not-detecting-isa-what-are-they-detecting/

 

 

Includes from today's Chilliwack Times:

 

"A spokesperson for Mainstream Canada, the second largest producer of farmed salmon in B.C., said there is no proof ISA is in B.C. and even those scientists debating the presence of the virus agree it's not killing the fish.  "This could be some totally different virus, which has been in the Pacific Ocean as long as the salmon have been here," communications officer Grant Warkentin told the Times. "There's no hard evidence to suggest there really is a virus, and certainly not to conclude that it must be coming from salmon farms and killing wild salmon."

 

And from a letter in today's Alberni Valley Times from Richard Robinson:

 

"How embarrassing for James Costello, sustainability officer, Mainstream Canada Tofino, to have two blatant piece of lies and propaganda published at the exact same time as the Cohen Commission contradicts his ludicrous claims by finding a concerted effort of the Harper government, the DFO and salmon farm industry lobbyists to hide the fact that the imported ISA virus is in fact widespread on the B.C. coast.  The laughter and ridicule he would be faced with if he continues with this current career choice I would guess would be forevermore unbearable....Good luck, Mr. Costello. I hear Afghanistan and Iraq are both looking for new Ministers of Information, perhaps you could send them your resumé. You seem quite qualified."

 

From the Surrey North Delta Leader reporting on the Cohen Commission:

 

"Joseph Beres wrote to CFIA colleagues Nov. 9 to praise their "very successful performance" in briefing the media on their findings refuting the independent tests.  "It is clear that we are turning the PR tide to our favour," Beres said in the email. "One battle is won, now we have to nail the surveillance piece, and we will win the war also."  Dr. Kim Klotins, the acting national manager of disease control contingency planning at the CFIA, said staff can get "a little bit exuberant" in internal emails.  "I really can't speak to what he was thinking," she said under cross-examination."

 

And from Alexandra Morton in her blog today:

 

"We heard again and again that trade partners with the Norwegian salmon farming companies in BC were notified and kept informed about the ISA virus tests, but there was NEVER any mention of informing First Nations and other Canadians. Salmon farmers were in attendance at meetings on this virus, but not First Nations, commercial fishing organizations, NGOs or anyone else!"

 

 

Read the leaked a transcript of Day 1 and other exhibits including ISA in Creative Salmon and AquaBounty farmed salmon - online via 'Fishyleaks'

 

More details via "Chronology of a Cover-Up in Canada: ISA in British Columbia" and "What's Cohen On?"

 

For background on the global spread of ISA read "ISA: Diary of Disease Disaster" and "Fish Farmageddon: The Infectious Salmon Aquacalypse" – online via:  http://www.wildsalmonfirst.org/fish-farmageddon-infectious-salmon-aquacalypse

 

 

Best fishes,

 

Don

Easywater

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Re: Lethal virus from European salmon found in wild BC salmon
« Reply #419 on: December 22, 2011, 02:31:34 PM »

A good article written in plain English: http://thecanadian.org//k2/item/1222-kristi-miller-cohen-commission-salmon-virus

Keep in mind that ISA appears to only affect Atlantic salmon and ISAv does not appear to be harmful to native Pacific salmon or humans.
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