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[troutbreath]

Get your say in if you use those roads.



http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/mof/nrra/

[JPW]

Interesting.  I wonder what this will mean for ripping up an access road on a dirt bike to get to a remote lake?

[alwaysfishn]

I think it's mostly about defining who is responsible for maintaining the roads, therefore a clearer definition of who is liable.

I don't think it's a matter of trying to limit access to remote lakes, etc. It's a concern for who is liable if something goes wrong....

[JPW]

I think it's mostly about defining who is responsible for maintaining the roads, therefore a clearer definition of who is liable.

I don't think it's a matter of trying to limit access to remote lakes, etc. It's a concern for who is liable if something goes wrong....

Definitely a case of C.Y.A.  Over the last couple of years there have been a number of changes for dirt biking that have resulted in having to carry proof of ownership and general liability insurance for your bike if you want to ride on forestry roads on crown land.  It's promoted as helping to identify stolen bikes, which it will, but it's more about liabilities imho.  As usual, it's a case of a few yahoos abusing the access roads making it more expensive for everyone else.

[skaha]

--Government will be responsible for determining if and when a road will be deactivated. That decision will be primarily based on risk to the environment and the existence of a party willing to mitigate that risk.

--good luck with that.... government is very risk adverse... so roads going to lakes with no lodge owner or recreation site.. good luck keeping it open.
--the easiest way to reduce liability will be and I am sure the first option will be to close the road to anyone except the party paying for it.
--roads need maintenance... currently industrial forest roads given similar allowance yet we have all experienced the different interpretations by companies as to what maintenance is.
--can you say TOLL on road request by maintainer to mitigate maintenance costs.

--company not going to log on road for a month... I can see the road being closed until they decide they are going to log thus reducing maintenance and risk.

[JPW]

--Government will be responsible for determining if and when a road will be deactivated. That decision will be primarily based on risk to the environment and the existence of a party willing to mitigate that risk.

--good luck with that.... government is very risk adverse... so roads going to lakes with no lodge owner or recreation site.. good luck keeping it open.
--the easiest way to reduce liability will be and I am sure the first option will be to close the road to anyone except the party paying for it.
--roads need maintenance... currently industrial forest roads given similar allowance yet we have all experienced the different interpretations by companies as to what maintenance is.
--can you say TOLL on road request by maintainer to mitigate maintenance costs.

--company not going to log on road for a month... I can see the road being closed until they decide they are going to log thus reducing maintenance and risk.

Good points Skaha. You're thinking along the same lines as I am. I can see losing a lot of access if this goes through and recreational users interests arent effectively represented.

[skaha]

--Can you say Spring Closure... forget fishing ice off except to lakes on public roads.
--Here is the excuse... we do not have enough staff to effectively police all roads so we will close all roads during break up... well in many cases that is April till June in the interior..
--Some lakes are open to fishing at ice off other lakes closed by regulation till May 1st..

--Don't believe me? Think about the application of the fire regs... wettest year ever yet with just a few weeks of dry weather... campfire ban... now I agree lower elevation areas dried out quickly and have no problem with a legitimate closure but higher elevation areas... such as the CPU connector temps were near zero over night... why no exemption for higher elevation?... well excuse... we don't have staff available to access the situation and (staff will be very risk adverse to granting exemption) thus everything closed...

--Just like fishing regs... the recreational user will be the one shut out.... often during closures industrial operations are allowed to continue.. as they can self asses risk... again excuse will be not enough staff to monitor public use so area will be shut down.

--You coastal guys are likely used to and have heard of the many fights to keep public access to forest company TFL's.. In the interior we have been spoiled to some extent with fairly unrestricted access to industrial use roads.

[skaha]

--Not just picking on Forest companies.. how about resort owner who may be deemed responsible for road... oh gee whizz.. I can't afford to maintain the road for public use so I'm only going to let my guests use the road.. any time there is an excuse to close the road.. These roads will essentially become private no matter what the regulation says.

--Example (not really the same but example only).. private road into Catherdal lk park... for a fee we will pick you up and bring you to the lodge but being a good corporate citizen the road is officially open to the public if you want to hike up it... but you cannot drive a vehicle on it..
--You will see much more of this type of restriction if lodge owners are forced to take primary responsibility for the road... I'm not saying all resort owners want this... I'd say many are very concerned about having to take on this responsibility. They will need insurance and will become very risk adverse to allowing public use thus will close the road at every opportunity. I don't blame them!

[Sandy]

not only to limit access for the Public. the Mining Association of BC has also pushed for this legislation to hinder or deny the small time or independent prospecters access. In some cases, some of those roads will be deemed to property of or for the sole use of Mega mining/forestry inc. even though they were once Forest access roads paid for by our tax money. as is the case in the NWT and Nun of it. Areas patroled by Private security? What was once a private road regulated within a mining forestry lease can now be regulated over a wider area.......

most other roads have to be decomissioned and made impassible IE: side roads made to access a particular project or cut ,drill site , exploration camp. Often unless done properly this just caused other problems with drainage etc.

Problem is simply, Liability. Do you police all roads blacktop or gravel? how do you police them? Do you simply post a sign saying use at your own peril?

Active industrial roads on crown land are also considered work sites and therefore industry can control access via Worksafe regs.or the mining Act.

[alwaysfishn]

Why couldn't they just post "Use at your own peril" on all these roads and allow the public to use them rather than decommissioning them or putting up gates?  There are all kinds of examples where the public uses various resources "at their own peril". Like ski hills, hiking trails, for that matter anywhere in the outdoors.

[skaha]

Why couldn't they just post "Use at your own peril" on all these roads and allow the public to use them rather than decommissioning them or putting up gates?  There are all kinds of examples where the public uses various resources "at their own peril". Like ski hills, hiking trails, for that matter anywhere in the outdoors.

--they could but they haven't when given the opportunity and they won't if not directed to do so. Liability is an excuse... government is trying to pawn it off on industry and industry will use the same liability excuse to deny public access to their advantage.
--hiking, x/country ski trials with tenure often post public portions of trails as private for use of members only.. or we are so scared a snag may fall on a ski trail we need a permit to log two tree lengths on either side of the centre of the trail... etc.

--come across a blocked culvert or tree across the road, most well meaning sorts would clear the culvert or move the tree... no way... must notify the company as you cannot do unauthorized maintenance...Expected company response... we cant get to it right away.. close the road immediately... maybe event try to give you a fine for trying to help!