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[Ed]

There are a few large differences between killing salmon for roe and fining sharks.
1. Sharks can live up to a 100 years, the salmon are returning to die
2. Most of these salmon are put there though hatchery programs.  One of the largest objections to fining is the unsustainability of it, otherwise it wouldn't now be banned at official banquets in China.
3. There is no comparison to "slit and releasing" a salmon to fining a shark.  The salmon is not going to live a tenth as long as the shark, and chances are any "roe" fishermen that would do such a thing are going to bonk and bleed their fish before taking the roe. If they do release it back into the river instead of taking it home at least the nutrients are being returned to the river, which is the point of a lot of the hatchery programs, like the white spring stockings done to most lower mainland rivers.
4. We also have regulations in place to punish anyone wasting their salmon catch, or being cruel to animals, so if you see someone doing it- report them if you feel it's so hypocritical.  We have laws to deal with this behavior, and that's the biggest objection to fining.  I'm sure if salmon fishing was as barbaric as you describe there would be a group out there trying to stop it.

The point of banning the soup is that there are many unregulated countries fining sharks, and one of the ways to put pressure on them to stop is by banning it's sale and removing the market.  Same thing that was done with rhino horn, elephant tusks, black bear gall bladders etc etc.  I have no problem with someone killing a bear, so long as they use it, not just to harvest an organ for a "delicacy" or some homeopathic form of Viagra.

We're a predatory species at the top of the food chain, if someone wants to kill an animal, I have no objection so long as it's done in a sustainable way in harmony with the environment, that properly uses the animal.  I don't agree with whaling either, but I understand the native historical and cultural significance to hunting them.  I would hope that as society evolves we look at some of these cultural practices and refine our behaviours, and realize we don't need to hunt whales to honor our ancestors, any more than we need to impale someone as a form of capital punishment, or fin sharks to add a chewy crunchy element to soup.

Fining should be banned, but if you want to fish sharks, fill your boots, so long as you at least use the entire animal, and kill it humanely.  It's not the killing of sharks that's the issue, it's killing them in an unsustainable practice, inhumanely that's the problem. Fining is the result of the the low economic value of the rest of the fish.  Unfortunately since some people/countries can't play nice, we have to resort to bans to force change that would not happen otherwise.

It isn't western arrogance or sinophobia, it's an evolved sense of ethics and it's not restricted to western society.

I'm pretty sure finning doesn't even make top 20 in the list of human activities that impact the environment. The reason why this ban is not going to happen is because out of so many environmental issues that we have, Shark Finning is least of their concern. If we are talking about cruelty, the Danish and Japanese slaughter the dolphins. If we talk about impacts on the environment, extracting oil from oil shale or deforestation (forests being sold to China), or even the infamous north atlantic cod fisheries that crashed are/were all bigger issues that impacted Canada. Another big reason why this ban will not happen is because as long as China and other fellow asian countries do not impose the ban, the total consumption of Shark Fin wont be going down much. Most of the illegal fishing is done by the people who live in poverty around the world therefore their education or concerns over the environment is minimal.

In regards to not consuming the Shark, if you do some research i believe they contain high levels of heavy metals. Consuming the whole fish might be hazardous considering how high sharks are in the oceanic food chain. And considering Shark Fin is a imported good, it should be regulated by our federal government and not municaplities because clearly they dont have the authority or power to do so.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/12/01/toronto-shark-fin-ban-invalid.html

[Rodney]

If we are talking about cruelty, the Danish and Japanese slaughter the dolphins.

Yo, get your facts straight. It has already been addressed.

http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=29275.0

[liketofish]

Now that the judge has thrown out the case in Toronto, they may have to hire body guard to protect the judge. Poor guy. He is dealing with the animal rights fanatics who have a big, big part to do with this push to target the Chinese and their soup. This is the same group who circulated the idea saying that the 20,000 people who perished in the Japanese tsunami is karma for shark harvest. He may have death threats coming his way big time now. They have done the damage to the Inuit people and their culture with their propaganda machines of the mass media. You want to side with these fanatics? Be my guest. I would rather this whole movement done via UN or any international authorities with established scientific studies to regulate the industry with official quota for shark fishing nations, much like whaling. They can advise subsistence fishermen to do finning more humanely. But personally, this cruelty aspect of the fishing should not be used to ban the soup. Cruelty is cruelty, doesn't matter how many years an animal or fish has to live. Are you going to justify each piece of meat/fish you eat that the victim of your bite is a dying animal? If not, why?  I don't want to be a hypocriate, hiding behind agents of slaughtering houses or fishing boats as if the meat I consume do not come with sufferings of those living things which have to die so I can eat to live. I accept it is just the law of nature, the cycle of life. You either accept that or don't even try to bite the next piece of meat. Predation by killing, directly or indirectly, is cruelty. Don't be a hypocrite and pretend that your full stomach does not come from result of cruety and that you are not part of the problem of cruelty to animals. Under such argument, you pretty much should hang up the rods for good.  Welcome to the club of the vegetarian.

As far as the barbaric argument that Chinese have to eat the whole sharks and not just the edible part or else risk mercury poisoning, I like to point out the fact that as a culture, Chinese are known to eat most animal parts, the head, the guts, the ears, the fins, the tails, even the egss & sperms , even the blood, of animals they kill for food. The only part they don't eat is the 'cupcakes' in the guts. LOL!  If you say they should risk DEATH to eat the whole shark before you think their killing of the shark is justified, then should they ask you to just risk STOMACH upset to consume all the undesirable parts of animals you eat, so that the killing of the animals for your appetite is justified? Next time you shop for your steak, make sure you also buy all the other parts Chinese eat so that you are not a hypocrite. No? Why not???  

[cutthroat22]

 Next time you shop for your steak, make sure you also buy all the other parts Chinese eat so that you are not a hypocrite. No? Why not???  

The hypocrites eat hot dogs 

[adriaticum]

I eat vegetarians!

[Ed]

Yo, get your facts straight. It has already been addressed.

http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=29275.0

yo

http://www.protecttheocean.com/denmark-continues-dolphin-slaughter-warning-graphic-images/

[Rodney]

Again, do some more research before believing everything you read on the net. Instead of wasting time to feed the troll, here it is again.

http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=29275.msg279674#msg279674

"The Faroe Islands have been a self-governing country within the Danish Realm since 1948."

[Ed]

Now that the judge has thrown out the case in Toronto, they may have to hire body guard to protect the judge. Poor guy. He is dealing with the animal rights fanatics who have a big, big part to do with this push to target the Chinese and their soup. This is the same group who circulated the idea saying that the 20,000 people who perished in the Japanese tsunami is karma for shark harvest. He may have death threats coming his way big time now. They have done the damage to the Inuit people and their culture with their propaganda machines of the mass media. You want to side with these fanatics? Be my guest. I would rather this whole movement done via CN or any international authorities with established scientific studies to regulate the industry with official quota for shark fishing nations, much like whaling. They can advise subsistence fishermen to do finning more humanely. But personally, this cruelty aspect of the fishing should not be used to ban the soup. Cruelty is cruelty, doesn't matter how many years an animal or fish has to live. Are you going to justify each piece of meat/fish you eat that the victim of your bite is a dying animal? If not, why?  I don't want to be a hypocriate, hiding behind agents of slaughtering houses or fishing boats as if the meat I consume do not come with sufferings of those living things which have to die so I can eat to live. I accept it is just the law of nature, the cycle of life. You either accept that or don't even try to bite the next piece of meat. Predation by killing, directly or indirectly, is cruelty. Don't be a hypocrite and pretend that your full stomach does not come from result of cruety and that you are not part of the problem of cruelty to animals. Under such argument, you pretty much should hang up the rods for good.  Welcome to the club of the vegetarian.

As far as the barbaric argument that Chinese have to eat the whole sharks and not just the edible part or else risk mercury poisoning, I like to point out the fact that as a culture, Chinese are known to eat most animal parts, the head, the guts, the ears, the fins, the tails, even the egss & sperms , even the blood, of animals they kill for food. The only part they don't eat is the 'cupcakes' in the guts. LOL!  If you say they should risk DEATH to eat the whole shark before you think their killing of the shark is justified, then should they ask you to just risk STOMACH upset to consume all the undesirable parts of animals you eat, so that the killing of the animals for your appetite is justified? Next time you shop for your steak, make sure you also buy all the other parts Chinese eat so that you are not a hypocrite. No? Why not???  

And the Chinese also think that Japanese involvment in the second world war killing 30 million chinese could have had something to do with the tsunami! Totally agree with your post, there are way too many treehugging fanatics that are preaching all these issues because they are comfortable living in Canada and doesn't understand that the rest of the world is actually pretty poor. This is what happens when people have too much time on their hands! Speaking of Shark Fin, a client of mine took me out for dinner 41st and Granville... some delicious tiger shark fin! I definetley feel the mercury!  

[Ed]

Again, do some more research before believing everything you read on the net. Instead of wasting time to feed the troll, here it is again.

http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=29275.msg279674#msg279674

Pretty sure they still belong to Denmark.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faroe_Island

But I get what you mean though, it's like Taiwan and China. Taiwan governs themselves but they are actually China.

[Rodney]

No, not really. You don't get what I mean.

[Ed]

Great Job New Westminster! Enough time spent on banning Shark fin from......................................................1 restaurant.

http://www.newwestnewsleader.com/news/182090211.html

[troutbreath]

Ed the part about it being "detrimental to the ecosystem" is probably more valid than someones desire to eat the soup. As you say the rest of the world may be poor but lets not make them poorer because of bad practices. The Chinese may well find themselves in a vast industrial wasteland in their effort to make some money. Where nothing grows. And with a population like they have that could end up grim. You just got to way things out for whats good down the road.

[Ed]

Ed the part about it being "detrimental to the ecosystem" is probably more valid than someones desire to eat the soup. As you say the rest of the world may be poor but lets not make them poorer because of bad practices. The Chinese may well find themselves in a vast industrial wasteland in their effort to make some money. Where nothing grows. And with a population like they have that could end up grim. You just got to way things out for whats good down the road.

Yes, i agree but shark fin is a relatively "minor" issue compared to all of the other human practices that impact the environment. What i'm trying to point out is that if they dont ban Shark fin globally, a mere ban in Europe or North America will almost have 0 impact on saving the sharks. The demand for Shark Fin in Asia alone is enough to feed all the suppliers, at most Shark Fin might even become cheaper and more affordable in the poor country (which will be worse off for the environment) if the demand in North America is gone due to banning. The fact that China ended up with a 1.3 billion population is already a little bit late for them to turn around, their main concern is the economy and not the environment. I'm sure in most countries even in the developed world, it is the same or else Canada and USA would not have left the Kyoto Protocol due to them not meeting their targets.

I dont get how finning will make them poorer other than maybe ruining the environment for their future generation. Then again if they dont feed their families, there wont be any future generations for these fishermen.

Last time I checked the news Turkey was setting up Patriot Missiles in their border to counter Syria.... i think that issue might have been put above Shark Finning.

[adriaticum]

Ed,
Traditional Chinese medicine is full of "voodoo" and shark fin soup is just another voodoo magic thing from that bag of tricks.
Chinese demand for voodoo pills has brought many animals to near extinction.
Unfortunately people in poor countries would do anything to supply that demand.
But even in China the people are becoming aware of the shark fin soup joke.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SAkq6lsnoE

[Ed]

Ed,
Traditional Chinese medicine is full of "voodoo" and shark fin soup is just another voodoo magic thing from that bag of tricks.
Chinese demand for voodoo pills has brought many animals to near extinction.
Unfortunately people in poor countries would do anything to supply that demand.
But even in China the people are becoming aware of the shark fin soup joke.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SAkq6lsnoE

Yes, Gordon Ramsey's definetely has tons of credibility in environmental science! You must be really edcuated too! ALL of chinese medicine must be voodoo right, considering China has a history of around 5000 years.

"Chinese demand for voodoo pills has brought many animals to near extinction" I wonder which animals you are referring to? Yes, many animals have become endangered but I'm not sure where you studied or got your information from but last time I check it's usually pollution, deforestation, and other activites that impact their habitat that causes animals to be nearly extinct.

http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/animals/stories/infographic-top-20-countries-with-most-endangered-species

I'm sure a lot of people in China cannot afford Shark Fin or else the Sharks would be in real danger! Like I said in my previous posts, good chance there wont be a ban of Shark Fin.

You are right at one thing though, people in poor countries would do anything to make a living including happily taking jobs in the BC mining industry for minimum wage! Hopefully more of these people are given the opportunity to work for a better life in Canada  in other industries as well. This way less people will want to be shark fishermen because it honestly isn't that great of a career!