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[Dave]

For the number of years that stocking has occurred simple statistics would say that there are no true wild fish left in the river.

I don't argue that statement.
Of course hatchery fish spawn (they are the ones with a missing adipose btw )
And yeah, I do believe if 2 hatchery fish spawn in the wild their offspring will behave as wild fish.  If they don't they will die, just as some pure wild (but you aren't sure they exist?) would.  Survival of the fittest and which fish is missed by the merganser.

[Sandy]

I don't argue that statement.
Of course hatchery fish spawn (they are the ones with a missing adipose btw )
And yeah, I do believe if 2 hatchery fish spawn in the wild their offspring will behave as wild fish.  If they don't they will die, just as some pure wild (but you aren't sure they exist?) would.  Survival of the fittest and which fish is missed by the merganser.

kinda like; how long does it take to be considered a local.

 Then there is the issues with residualisation or a wild male doing the dirty with a hatchery fish. In my question I was meaning is there a section of river above the hatchery that was left to nature-ish?
Do some Hatchery fish by-pass the hatchery and head on up river to spawn?

Dave has hatchery stock been transplanted above foley creek ?

my questions are in no way meant to cause argument just simple education and polite debate.

BTW Dave ,watching sheep doing he wild thing is a way warmer or there is also cable TV, but what ever does it for you, but glad you share the knowledge gained.

[Dave]

BTW Dave ,watching sheep doing he wild thing is a way warmer or there is also cable TV, but what ever does it for you, but glad you share the knowledge gained.

Sorry Sandy, I'm not into sheep but have made a life I love from fish.
Hatchery parr are released below the Vedder Crossing bridge. This release strategy does a reasonably good job of keeping "wild" and hatchery marked fish apart while rearing. In the perfect world for steelhead that existed about 200 years ago, we wouldn't be discussing this but this 2012.
The C-V is an hour away from 2M people. Considering that, and the fact this system still functions as well as it does, speaks well of something … perhaps the closed to angling area, and it's protective environment for the fish that make it that far; most definitely the wise decision to use only adipose intact fish for hatchery broodstock … but I think what keeps adipose intact fish returning to this, the most heavily fished steelhead river in BC, is the off channel habitat available in the upper river along with the ongoing nutrient replacement program administered by the BCCF.

[blaydRnr]

Next question....would the hatchery accept these so called mis-clipped/deformed adipose steelhead into their brood stock program on the basis that they still have their fin partially intact? because according to some CO's they are adamant about them being considered wild.

Just thought I would take it to a different angle of approach.

[Dave]

Next question....would the hatchery accept these so called mis-clipped/deformed adipose steelhead into their brood stock program on the basis that they still have their fin partially intact? because according to some CO's they are adamant about them being considered wild.

Just thought I would take it to a different angle of approach.

Give them a call at 604-858-7227 and ask.

[alwaysfishn]

Next question....would the hatchery accept these so called mis-clipped/deformed adipose steelhead into their brood stock program on the basis that they still have their fin partially intact? because according to some CO's they are adamant about them being considered wild.

Just thought I would take it to a different angle of approach.

I believe a miss-clip is classified as "half wild" so it wouldn't qualify for the "all wild" hatchery brood program.....     

[typhoon]

What the hatchery does with its brood stock really has nothing to do with this discussion.
I would hope that they filter the unclipped fish that they use - i.e. a deformed fish would not be used even if it successfully reached the river.
Thus it is perfectly valid for them to filter a misclip even if it is considered "wild" for angler retention purposes.

What we should take from this is that the hatchery should be more careful in clipping so we don't have this problem.
Perhaps all of us could volunteer to help in this process. I'm certainly willing.

[blaydRnr]

What the hatchery does with its brood stock really has nothing to do with this discussion.
 

well considering the Vedder/Chilliwack is open to retention of hatchery marked fish, it has everything to do with them because it all starts with them...if it was a non retention fishery then this whole discussion would all be irrelevant...wouldn't it?

[blaydRnr]

What we should take from this is that the hatchery should be more careful in clipping so we don't have this problem.
Perhaps all of us could volunteer to help in this process. I'm certainly willing.

I agree to an extent, but because they rely on much needed volunteer work, i would be hard pressed to criticize nor magnify the flaws in their methods. I would rather see an adaptation of the Adipose Recognition Program which is now in place in some States.

[Sandy]

Sorry Sandy, I'm not into sheep but have made a life I love from fish.
Hatchery parr are released below the Vedder Crossing bridge. This release strategy does a reasonably good job of keeping "wild" and hatchery marked fish apart while rearing. In the perfect world for steelhead that existed about 200 years ago, we wouldn't be discussing this but this 2012.
The C-V is an hour away from 2M people. Considering that, and the fact this system still functions as well as it does, speaks well of something … perhaps the closed to angling area, and it's protective environment for the fish that make it that far; most definitely the wise decision to use only adipose intact fish for hatchery broodstock … but I think what keeps adipose intact fish returning to this, the most heavily fished steelhead river in BC, is the off channel habitat available in the upper river along with the ongoing nutrient replacement program administered by the BCCF.

agin Dave , very much appreciated. And I get it!

[Sandy]

I agree to an extent, but because they rely on much needed volunteer work, i would be hard pressed to criticize nor magnify the flaws in their methods. I would rather see an adaptation of the Adipose Recognition Program which is now in place in some States.

were there perhaps an inordinate amount of miss-clipped parr released in past cycles, or are the numbers "parr" for the course? Sorry  

[typhoon]

I agree to an extent, but because they rely on much needed volunteer work, i would be hard pressed to criticize nor magnify the flaws in their methods. I would rather see an adaptation of the Adipose Recognition Program which is now in place in some States.

Can you provide some more information on the Adipose Recognition Program?
BC could consider adopting an already working policy.
My web search came up empty.

[blaydRnr]

racking my brains out trying to remember which fishery website i came across with this specific program, but here's another discussion forum that mentions and posts the chart (which some are debating). the chart itself is legit because i've come across it many times before and i believe it's origins were from the ODFW booklet from the 1980's.

http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=114552

[typhoon]

racking my brains out trying to remember which fishery website i came across with this specific program, but here's another discussion forum that mentions and posts the chart (which some are debating). the chart itself is legit because i've come across it many times before and i believe it's origins were from the ODFW booklet from the 1980's.

http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=114552

It pretty much mirrors this thread. I think we have agreed that a fish like Rod's is a misclip but that even in Oregon you could still be cited for it as a wild fish.
Here is the chart for those not clicking through:


Note that only (A) is considered legal in Oregon.

[blaydRnr]

With that you are absolutely correct. I do believe at one point our Regulation Booklet also had this chart as a guideline for identifying a hatchery marked fish (using diagram A as the norm). I remember as a young teen seeing something like this in the late 70's / early 80's. Maybe someone who was as an adult at that time can recall.

Thanks for posting the chart...for some stupid reason i couldn't post it through the reply page...this is the reason I don't post photos under the Report Section.