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[aquapaloosa]

Context counts (and sexy graphs help)

Salmon Farm Science, May 10, 2012

We’ve had a lot of fun with Ms. Alexandra Morton’s ridiculous use of one particular graph to claim that salmon farms in BC brought about a decline in wild salmon productivity.
Without any context, her argument sounds reasonable.
But in context, it all falls apart as we showed in an earlier post and again in this post.

http://salmonfarmscience.com/2012/05/10/context-counts-and-sexy-graphs-help/

[alwaysfishn]

Context counts (and sexy graphs help)

Salmon Farm Science, May 10, 2012

We’ve had a lot of fun with Ms. Alexandra Morton’s ridiculous use of one particular graph to claim that salmon farms in BC brought about a decline in wild salmon productivity.
Without any context, her argument sounds reasonable.
But in context, it all falls apart as we showed in an earlier post and again in this post.

http://salmonfarmscience.com/2012/05/10/context-counts-and-sexy-graphs-help/

Sounds like they have a theme for another round of pointless commercials.....

[chris gadsden]

Sounds like they have a theme for another round of pointless commercials.....

Yes the TV stations just love the thousands they make from them.

[Dave]

af, Chris, your posts are losing their usual bite.  Makes me think you're tiring of defending your respective positions against salmon farming or maybe, have come to the realization they're here to stay in BC.  Time to funnel your energy into important things like overharvesting, IPP’s and pipelines    

[alwaysfishn]

af, Chris, your posts are losing their usual bite.  Makes me think you're tiring of defending your respective positions against salmon farming or maybe, have come to the realization they're here to stay in BC.  Time to funnel your energy into important things like overharvesting, IPP’s and pipelines    

Is that wishful thinking or just a pro feedlot farmer dreaming?   

[chris gadsden]

af, Chris, your posts are losing their usual bite.  Makes me think you're tiring of defending your respective positions against salmon farming or maybe, have come to the realization they're here to stay in BC.  Time to funnel your energy into important things like overharvesting, IPP’s and pipelines  

Just watch the video I filmed of Eddie again in Victoria and some changes I believe will be in the offering in a years time.

At least hopefully there will be more transparency to the whole issue than now as we all know or should know the gag law continues in so many government departments and could get worse.

[Dave]

Now Chris, you know that had nothing to do with salmon farms and I won't be losing sleep over it.  And, I thought we had an agreement on where you and I draw the line regarding on line comments 
Wonder what I would have caught if I had used a barbed hook?

Back on topic, if the NDP win the provincial election, what changes in aquaculture do you see them making?  Seems to me there would have been a much larger opportunity for aquaculture reform if AM had not pushed for federal responsibility.

[chris gadsden]

Now Chris, you know that had nothing to do with salmon farms and I won't be losing sleep over it.  And, I thought we had an agreement on where you and I draw the line regarding on line comment's
Wonder what I would have caught if I had used a barbed hook?

Back on topic, if the NDP win the provincial election, what changes in aquaculture do you see them making?  Seems to me there would have been a much larger opportunity for aquaculture reform if AM had not pushed for federal responsibility.

I will apologize for that and I will delete that part of my post but this topic is way out of line  and is in very bad taste to start with, a person can disagree with what a person says, in this case Alex but to say "fun with Alexandra Morton" is not a thing to say.

It is easy for many to sit behind a computer and say such things but Alex is working very hard on her position and is travelling the Province, in the Adams River now giving talks about the issue. You and others can disagree on what she is doing but all should show respect.

It may have come to the time that this topic on fish farms comes an end. I will talk to the moderators on this as once again this thread has deteriorated and I am guilty of that too.

[absolon]

Chris, the title here was a paraphrase of the article linked to and that article referenced having fun with Ms. Morton's claims, not fun at her expense. There has been no rudeness towards the woman either here or at the links and by putting her claims out there, she opens herself to whatever was said about those claims. The only cheap shot in this thread was the one you took against Dave.

What it really sounds like you are saying is that no-one can criticize what she says and does, that her status as tireless campaigner fighting fish farming entitles her to misrepresent information in any way that suits her cause. What you are forgetting is that for years she has been making quite nasty representations against farms and the regulating agencies. Those that do not believe in her are now standing up and combating those claims far more vigorously than they have in the past and exposing the inaccuracy and inappropriateness of her presentations. She does not have the right to misrepresent the facts and she is not immune from having her misrepresentations challenged.

Indeed, there are many who think her actions have been one of the larger obstacles to actually finding a solution to the problems in our fish stocks. In spite of her attempts to present it as such, it was not the Cohen/Morton Inquiry on Fish Farms and it's purpose was not to sandbag fish farms. We would have been far better off keeping responsibility for farms at the local level and we would be far better off if much less attention was focused on her antics and much more on all the other factors that affect the stocks. The problem is not rooted in fish farms and it's well past time we moved on to deal with the real roots.

[alwaysfishn]

Chris, the title here was a paraphrase of the article linked to and that article referenced having fun with Ms. Morton's claims, not fun at her expense. There has been no rudeness towards the woman either here or at the links and by putting her claims out there, she opens herself to whatever was said about those claims. The only cheap shot in this thread was the one you took against Dave.

What it really sounds like you are saying is that no-one can criticize what she says and does, that her status as tireless campaigner fighting fish farming entitles her to misrepresent information in any way that suits her cause. What you are forgetting is that for years she has been making quite nasty representations against farms and the regulating agencies. Those that do not believe in her are now standing up and combating those claims far more vigorously than they have in the past and exposing the inaccuracy and inappropriateness of her presentations. She does not have the right to misrepresent the facts and she is not immune from having her misrepresentations challenged.

Indeed, there are many who think her actions have been one of the larger obstacles to actually finding a solution to the problems in our fish stocks. In spite of her attempts to present it as such, it was not the Cohen/Morton Inquiry on Fish Farms and it's purpose was not to sandbag fish farms. We would have been far better off keeping responsibility for farms at the local level and we would be far better off if much less attention was focused on her antics and much more on all the other factors that affect the stocks. The problem is not rooted in fish farms and it's well past time we moved on to deal with the real roots.

I hope you have some links to credible sources that can back up an outrageous claim like that. 

You would have maintained your credibility and of course further defined your bias, if you had started the sentence with "In my opinion....."   

[Burbot]

Back on topic, if the NDP win the provincial election, what changes in aquaculture do you see them making?  Seems to me there would have been a much larger opportunity for aquaculture reform if AM had not pushed for federal responsibility.

None because the courts ruled last year Fish farms are under federal jurisdiction now not provincial.

 I think personally they are harming wild salmon, just look what happened to native fish in Norway and Chile and now here. it does not take a rocket scientist to figure things out.

[Dave]

What native fish in Chile are you referring to?
Do some research on Norway as well and you will see it was the importation of a parasite native to Baltic salmon rivers, Gyrodactylus Salaris, that decimated Norwegian Salmo stocks, not salmon farming as Ms. Morton would have you believe.
No, it's not rocket science at all.

[Schenley]

I will apologize for that and I will delete that part of my post but this topic is way out of line  and is in very bad taste to start with, a person can disagree with what a person says, in this case Alex but to say "fun with Alexandra Morton" is not a thing to say.

It is easy for many to sit behind a computer and say such things but Alex is working very hard on her position and is travelling the Province, in the Adams River now giving talks about the issue. You and others can disagree on what she is doing but all should show respect.

It may have come to the time that this topic on fish farms comes an end. I will talk to the moderators on this as once again this thread has deteriorated and I am guilty of that too. Embarrassed

Chris, you have nothing to apologize for.  I got told to play nice by Rodney earlier on when I responded pointedly in what I considered a one sided mocking of what Alex is trying to do for future generations of BC anglers .  The title "fun with Alexandra Morton" is typical of a small number of fish farm apologists on this board who mock and try to discredit the messenger when they see a threat to their right to screw up our iconic  Pacific salmon.   It has NEVER been a balanced discussion IMO.   Lets see how long this post remains........

[Rodney]

I didn't tell you to do anything... lol... I don't tell participants what to do on the forum. If something doesn't belong in here, it gets removed. I said if you want more support, try more honey than vinegar because your way of going about it was not going to gain much support.

[Schenley]

Rod-- your board, you can make the rules... but there comes a time when the BS that is being fed us by the mocking, all knowing (NOT) fish farm apologists does NOT deserve a gentlemanly response.     Go back on  the board and have a close look at the spin that these guys have put on Alex Morton.  She deserves an Order of Canada, not the derision she is having dumped upon her by the likes a few here .   The tactics that the fish farm industry use to discredit anyone that disagrees with them smacks of the same tactics the tobacco industry unleashed on the public when we finally woke up that smoking is bad for living creatures (us). Oh ya-- seems to me I remember something about the the fish farm industry hiring the same spin doctors that the tobacco industry used....... just a coincidence , right???

Guess I will go  over to the knuckledraggers  board ( Gee-- I wonder where that mocking phrase came from???   Oh! It was one of the fish farm apologists on this board ) where they call this BS for what it is.