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[buck]

Dave, that's good news for a change. Sockeye and spring numbers are on the decline  in the lower river and appear to have peaked last week. KP mentioned most of the fish are in Chilliwack lake by the 15th of August.

[fishyfish]

Man I hope they don't open sockeye to sport fishermen on the Vedder. That would be the ultimate gong show. The perfect storm. Take the Fraser River crowd and put them on the vedder. It would be like fishing on the skytrain during rush hour.

[chris gadsden]

Dave, from what I'm hearing ( Wally Hall )they have not been successful seining in the lower river due to water levels. Dip netting has also been a bust. Some gill netting taking place on the reserve. Not sure how many fish have been taken but I"m sure we can get those figures from the on- site monitors.

Maybe I should not say it but they could get more angling for them, and not by flossing either.

[Dennis.t]

The Vedder/Chilliwack River sockeye were wiped out by overnetting and consequently closed in the late 1950's. The taxpayers of Canada have been funding the Seltzer Creek hatchery and the adjoining FN to bring back the sockeye. Now the netting starts again. Hopefully DFO has learned from their mistake and will closely monitor this fishery. Otherwise we will be caught in a vicious circle, benefiting only one group of people at the expense of the other.
The bright side? This may mean a sockey retention for the rest of us, with one single line and a barbless hook. Is this getting what you paid for?

Overnetting by whom The Chiliwack Lake run of sockeye is estimated at 200,000.The largest run in decades because nets have stayed out of the Fraser to protect early Stewart run for the last several yrs. The natives are being allowed to net 15,000 pcs after decades of not being able to net in the Vedder. Good for them.

[RA40]

at the last meeting DFO said that the run has been rebounding since 2000 , doubling each year, last year was 68,000, this year they expect 136k and counting.
They are not sure why.

[dnibbles]

at the last meeting DFO said that the run has been rebounding since 2000 , doubling each year, last year was 68,000, this year they expect 136k and counting.
They are not sure why.

This cycle year has been doubling. 68k was 4 years ago. All other years this run is waaaaaay smaller.



As of yesterday, zero fish taken in seines and dip nets. 15K will be a pipe dream at this stage of the game. I'm glad this fishery was opened this year, for a few reasons. By getting people talking about it I think it will educate for future years' shift towards terminal fisheries. I realize that many people are seeing this in the bubble of the Chilliwack system (chinook by catch, precedent for fall netting etc), but Fraser sockeye salmon management policies are based on watershed-wide allocations. I would much rather see an allocation of 15K sockeye from the Chilliwack this season than from nets hanging in the Canyon picking up Early Stuarts etc (the Early Stuart closure window is coming to an end shortly up there, but so far there's been no fishing).

Be certain that 4 years from now the local bands will be more prepared for this fishery. If implemented as a seine and dip net fishery, I don't have any serious by-catch concerns (Cultus sockeye not in river yet, red Chinook strictly a hatchery run so no conservation concern), but DFo will need to keep the reins on this to keep the lid on the multi-user group tensions that seem unavoidable on the Chilliwack.

[Bently]

This cycle year has been doubling. 68k was 4 years ago. All other years this run is waaaaaay smaller.



As of yesterday, zero fish taken in seines and dip nets. 15K will be a pipe dream at this stage of the game. I'm glad this fishery was opened this year, for a few reasons. By getting people talking about it I think it will educate for future years' shift towards terminal fisheries. I realize that many people are seeing this in the bubble of the Chilliwack system (chinook by catch, precedent for fall netting etc), but Fraser sockeye salmon management policies are based on watershed-wide allocations. I would much rather see an allocation of 15K sockeye from the Chilliwack this season than from nets hanging in the Canyon picking up Early Stuarts etc (the Early Stuart closure window is coming to an end shortly up there, but so far there's been no fishing).

Be certain that 4 years from now the local bands will be more prepared for this fishery. If implemented as a seine and dip net fishery, I don't have any serious by-catch concerns (Cultus sockeye not in river yet, red Chinook strictly a hatchery run so no conservation concern), but DFo will need to keep the reins on this to keep the lid on the multi-user group tensions that seem unavoidable on the Chilliwack.

No offense dnibbles but I think your living on a cloud if you think that there won't be any nets hanging in the canyon this year. There's nets in the Fraser above Hope "EVERY YEAR" regardless of what's going on with fish numbers etc etc.

[buck]

dnipples

Obviously saying that hatchery chinook are of no concern shows that you are not familiar with ongoing brood stock concerns. Where do you think the hatchery is getting their brood stock? There was a concern 2-3 years ago that there would not be enough brood stock and subsequently the limits hole was closed to protect staging fish. If red chinook are taken in any numbers in a seine fishery it could jeopardize future recreational fisheries. I should also mention that gill nets could be brought into the equation if seines and dip nets are not working.
Gill netting has already started at one site and who knows how many fish have been taken. I'm sure any by- catch will be released and sockeye caught will be counted by the monitors . I have no problem with natives taking fish for food or ceremonial purposes but their record of suppling catch information is dismal. By- catch releases , whats that?  The precedent for fall netting has been made about 15 years ago when first nations applied for and received permission to seine white chinook in the Chilliwack river. DFO should be very cautious opening new fisheries especially on the heaviest fished river in the province. One only has to look at the Fraser drift and seine net fisheries and the associated problems and hope that it does't come to the Vedder/Chilliwack.

[Stratocaster]

While I have no problem with First Nations partaking in "Traditional" Fisheries i.e. Chilliwack Lake Sockeye.  I do have a problem with FN openings on Hatchery White Springs (and the associated mortalities on Coho and Cultus Sockeye).  White springs on the Vedder have never been a traditional species but were transplated for the sake of the recreational fishery funded by taxpayers and the rec. sector. 

[Bassonator]

It's really sad to see/hear about all this happening. I am only 21 and it seems like the salmon are already practically extinct. Imagine all these problems in 20 years from now? Even with all the rules being implemented you know how many boats with nets I have seen plowing up and down the Fraser out near Annacis island as I am fishing from shore? They even come up these little areas where there is 300m log walls built along side the banks. Me and my friend were getting really upset because some douche comes in to this logged off area with a huge net behind his boat and plows up and down the channel. This was 3-4 weeks ago. It is no wonder salmon are going extinct. It's nice to hear there are some returning numbers in some of the runs but aren't these numbers pennies compared to 200 years ago? I can only dream of the Sockeye runs 200 years ago.

And we as sporties are helping things??

[Dave]

I wish they made it law so that no one could commercially fish wild salmon, instead if they want fish they could farm the salmon and that is it.

I could learn to like you AaronWilde

[anorden]

While I have no problem with First Nations partaking in "Traditional" Fisheries i.e. Chilliwack Lake Sockeye.  I do have a problem with FN openings on Hatchery White Springs (and the associated mortalities on Coho and Cultus Sockeye).  White springs on the Vedder have never been a traditional species but were transplated for the sake of the recreational fishery funded by taxpayers and the rec. sector. 

In legal terms it does not matter if the population is transplanted or otherwise artificially boosted. The law says FN have a traditional right to harvest - but does not go on to specify exactly what species or strain. I say law, actually it was only really the Sparrow case that determined the traditional right to harvest. All the subsequent cases have just referenced the Sparrow case rather than re-proven traditional rights.

Hunters have been complaining for ages about FN hunting transplanted elk in the Sunshine Coast / Squamish / Pitt River areas under their traditional harvest rights banner. And getting nowhere.

[fishbandit66]

In legal terms it does not matter if the population is transplanted or otherwise artificially boosted. The law says FN have a traditional right to harvest - but does not go on to specify exactly what species or strain. I say law, actually it was only really the Sparrow case that determined the traditional right to harvest. All the subsequent cases have just referenced the Sparrow case rather than re-proven traditional rights.

How much would it cost to hire some good lawyers to straighten this out and establish exactly what the right is. It seems to me this right is never challenged by "settlers" or law enforcement really they are all to scared of being branded as racialist

[Copper Koski]

I no canna speak to this.  Though a pirate I may be, I have no time or favour for a poacher.  I do my part by not buying poached nerka, and tell my crew and mates to do the same.  If there be no market, there be nowhere to sale your ill gotten booty.  Now, I does have a wee story for ya, me hearty and I hope it does show the errors in your ways.  Yarrrgh, two summers ago, a mealy mouthed man (who I later learned to be a mutinous swab) and I were fishing for Transmontanus at the mouth of the Bedford Channel.  The Kwantlen were drifting for Nerkas near by, we in the slack and they in the flow.  The sun was high in the sky and the bite was off.  There we was, minding our business when a Kwantlen boat done pulled along side and fired a full volley of two fresh nerkas on to our decks!  The squaw on the Kwantlen boat said to us: "My elder said I need to share our bounty with you."  And she did! Two fine silvery nerkas, full of fresh roe for transmontanus bait and Nerka Flesh for our supper!  Lo! We hadda good feast that night me hearty! Yarrgh, fresh Nerka on cedar planks! But the point be that these were good people, sharing their bounty with us.  Aye they could covet all the Nerkas in the river, but nay! Share and share alike!  A good jester from fine peoples with plenty to be proud of! 

So when you be broad brushing all them peoples as poachers, ya best be knowing that it be but a few rotten apples in the barrel.  I point more to them preying on the white man's greed rather than their own!  Aye aye!

Well said. I had a similar experience myself.  I have never had a probem with the native fishery on the lower fraser. They are usually the guys cheering you on when fighting a sturgeon or sharing their catch. I cant say the same about the comercial guys though ...

[Bently]

Well said. I had a similar experience myself.  I have never had a probem with the native fishery on the lower fraser. They are usually the guys cheering you on when fighting a sturgeon or sharing their catch. I cant say the same about the comercial guys though ...

What ?? You don't think that the Natives hold commercial licenses too !! There's a hell of a lot of Native commercial boats my friend, in almost every fishery there is on this coast.

They get their food fishery and then the next day the rest of the commercial fleet fishes and who's fishing then too, that's right, all the natives that are licensed vessels for that area.

Funny thing is , is that when they go to offload they usually have twice as much as the Non Native vessels. Simply put ,they sell their "FOOD FISH" along with the commercially caught fish to get the big payday, it's been happening like that for YEARS and YEARS!!!

Seen it far too many times up in the Straits, native boats heading for cambell River with a jag on when all the other boats are at best "average" Don't tell me that their all better fishermen than the "white guy", some definitely are but it's pretty easy to look like a highliner when you rob a creek with your seine the night before the opening.