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[dnibbles]

Pfft!, whatever Sidestep Steve. We want raw data!!!!! Of course, then they'll be accused of trying to confuse the public with nonsensical pathology reports etc.

Donkey.

[shuswapsteve]

There are some people that know how to interpret this sort of data and take a keen interest in it (I have no problem with experienced people looking at raw data), but it can be easily misinterpreted if you don't have any biological experience such as fish pathology or virology.

With more and more people online these days and taking more of an interest in environmental data I believe this type of information will slowly make its way onto the web more and more each year.

Governments have their shortcomings, but in this instance they deliver far more detail and professionalism than this activist site.

Sure..let's also have the raw data from the activists if transparency and informing the public is the goal.


Hee-haw!  

[Novabonker]

So Steve- is any or all of your income derived from fish farming? Or is there another sidestep coming? Lovely day here on the lake

[alwaysfishn]

They complied with what was requested from the commission - read the rulings..................... 

Exactly! Why didn't they provide everything? If Cohen hadn't of demanded the information they certainly wouldn't have volunteered it...  What are they hiding?

And the concept of providing "dumbed down " data because the public wouldn't know what to do with it is ridiculous. Why not provide all the raw data, as well as the dumbed down report?

The other situation which none of you pro-feedlot boys are willing to address is, why isn't disease reporting mandatory? Why is something so important as disease (the feedlots are using our ocean as their toilet after all) reported on a volunteer basis?

[dnibbles]

Exactly! Why didn't they provide everything? If Cohen hadn't of demanded the information they certainly wouldn't have volunteered it...  What are they hiding?

And the concept of providing "dumbed down " data because the public wouldn't know what to do with it is ridiculous. Why not provide all the raw data, as well as the dumbed down report?

The other situation which none of you pro-feedlot boys are willing to address is, why isn't disease reporting mandatory? Why is something so important as disease (the feedlots are using our ocean as their toilet after all) reported on a volunteer basis?

alwaysfishin- You have yet to provide us with all of your personal financial records, your birth certificate, your detailed fishing journal from the past 20 years? What are you hiding???


Oh wait, no one asked for it yet.

None of my income is derived from fish farming or feedlots. Sidestep can answer for himself, but he will probably disappoint you with his response.

[alwaysfishn]

alwaysfishin- You have yet to provide us with all of your personal financial records, your birth certificate, your detailed fishing journal from the past 20 years? What are you hiding???


Oh wait, no one asked for it yet.

None of my income is derived from fish farming or feedlots. Sidestep can answer for himself, but he will probably disappoint you with his response.

Funny......    just not relevant though. 

As shuswapsteve would say "Thanks for the entertainment"   

[absolon]

Why won't Morton provide the lab reports she says support her claims.

What is she hiding?

[Bassonator]

Why won't Morton provide the lab reports she says support her claims.

What is she hiding?

Shes hiding nothing, cause thats what the reports say nothing, Id be a little embarassed too. I mean here ive got the feds looking after fishfarms,  got that away from the provincials, your welcome. Kibenge now doesnt want to be assocaited with me, Im batting 1000....

[alwaysfishn]

Why won't Morton provide the lab reports she says support her claims.

What is she hiding?

Nice redirect.......   That's like having your doctor examining a pimple on your nose when your body is riddled with cancer.

We've allowed foreign companies to grow millions of salmon in feedlots in our oceans, yet we have limited information on how they are polluting our waters because the industry is allowed to keep their disease records secret..... versus a private citizen using private funds, trying to determine the effects of the feedlots on our wild salmon populations by testing a few salmon.

pretty hypocritical.....

[absolon]

That's like having your doctor examining a pimple on your nose when your body is riddled with cancer

........sounds like Morton's approach to saving the salmon.

Reread dnibbles post. The records aren't secret; they are filed with people who analyze and summarize them and release the summaries.

Pretty hypocritical of Morton to demand the farms produce information but refuse to do so herself.

[chris gadsden]

There are some people that know how to interpret this sort of data and take a keen interest in it (I have no problem with experienced people looking at raw data), but it can be easily misinterpreted if you don't have any biological experience such as fish pathology or virology.

With more and more people online these days and taking more of an interest in environmental data I believe this type of information will slowly make its way onto the web more and more each year.

Governments have their shortcomings, but in this instance they deliver far more detail and professionalism than this activist site.

Sure..let's also have the raw data from the activists if transparency and informing the public is the goal.


Hee-haw!  

Government controls most of this. Get a freedom of request back only to find a number of sentences blacked out.

[dnibbles]

........sounds like Morton's approach to saving the salmon.

Reread dnibbles post. The records aren't secret; they are filed with people who analyze and summarize them and release the summaries.

Pretty hypocritical of Morton to demand the farms produce information but refuse to do so herself.

BINGO!!!!
Although I'll say that I think the farms are riskier than a pimple. Maybe a small, undiagnosed lump. It's something to keep an eye on, but those already diagnosed tumours known as overfishing and habitat destruction shouldn't be ignored.

When I get back to work I'll pull some "raw data" (sorry, it's not farm disease records) for you alwaysfishin. We'll see if you can even figure out what it is, let alone interpret it. Then I'll give the summary that I get paid to do. No opinion, no no slant, just number crunching, summary and analysis. IT will make a lot more sense to you when served "cooked", not raw ;-)

[shuswapsteve]

Exactly! Why didn't they provide everything? If Cohen hadn't of demanded the information they certainly wouldn't have volunteered it...  What are they hiding?

And the concept of providing "dumbed down " data because the public wouldn't know what to do with it is ridiculous. Why not provide all the raw data, as well as the dumbed down report?

The other situation which none of you pro-feedlot boys are willing to address is, why isn't disease reporting mandatory? Why is something so important as disease (the feedlots are using our ocean as their toilet after all) reported on a volunteer basis?

AF, I can see you still didn't read the rulings.  There were reasons why certain data could not be produced in a timely fashion for the inquiry as well as the aquaculture opponents' inability to provide a convincing arguement for those paper records.  Maybe you should have been there to plead their case and use your “logic”.  Secondly, you also have not read the new federal aquaculture regulations, specifically the Conditions of Licence for Finfish Aquaculture (Section 6).

I understand why you would say “dumbed down” data, but I certainly do not see it that way.  Dumbed down seems to suggest that public is smart enough and cannot possibly understand this, so it has to be filtered and spoon-fed to them.  It is not about that.  Let me clarify….Most of this type of data is not that easy to understand – not even for me.  The data from the province was compiled and summarized into reports to help people understand.  I do not believe there was intent by the authors of these reports to belittle the public or hide things.

As time goes on, this type of data is going to be more accessible to people like you.  The internet is just too much of a force now with everyone wanting to be able to access information online.  I believe the new federal aquaculture regulations will be introducing this.  It is not going to be instant as governments seem to move like glaciers sometimes with communication departments that would rather move backwards, but I think it is in the industry’s best interests in the long run in getting more public support.  Not from the hard core activists because that will never happen, but more from the people that tend to think more logically and leave emotional arguments out of the equation (sadly, this could have been you).

[alwaysfishn]

AF, I can see you still didn't read the rulings.  There were reasons why certain data could not be produced in a timely fashion for the inquiry as well as the aquaculture opponents' inability to provide a convincing arguement for those paper records.  Maybe you should have been there to plead their case and use your “logic”.  Secondly, you also have not read the new federal aquaculture regulations, specifically the Conditions of Licence for Finfish Aquaculture (Section 6).

I understand why you would say “dumbed down” data, but I certainly do not see it that way.  Dumbed down seems to suggest that public is smart enough and cannot possibly understand this, so it has to be filtered and spoon-fed to them.  It is not about that.  Let me clarify….Most of this type of data is not that easy to understand – not even for me.  The data from the province was compiled and summarized into reports to help people understand.  I do not believe there was intent by the authors of these reports to belittle the public or hide things.

As time goes on, this type of data is going to be more accessible to people like you.  The internet is just too much of a force now with everyone wanting to be able to access information online.  I believe the new federal aquaculture regulations will be introducing this.  It is not going to be instant as governments seem to move like glaciers sometimes with communication departments that would rather move backwards, but I think it is in the industry’s best interests in the long run in getting more public support.  Not from the hard core activists because that will never happen, but more from the people that tend to think more logically and leave emotional arguments out of the equation (sadly, this could have been you).

I support the principal of full disclosure irrespective of the capability of the recipient to understand it.

It's a poor reason for the feedlots to suggest that they don't want to release raw data because "no one will understand it". First off that is not true, as there are probably as smart if not smarter people in the anti-feedlot population than the pro-feedlot group. Secondly it's disrespectful of the public whose environment the feedlots are crapping in, to suggest that the raw data is "too sophisticated " for them to interpret.

We are totally capable of chewing our own food.....

[AnnieP]

I support the principal of full disclosure irrespective of the capability of the recipient to understand it.

It's a poor reason for the feedlots to suggest that they don't want to release raw data because "no one will understand it". First off that is not true, as there are probably as smart if not smarter people in the anti-feedlot population than the pro-feedlot group. Secondly it's disrespectful of the public whose environment the feedlots are crapping in, to suggest that the raw data is "too sophisticated " for them to interpret.

We are totally capable of chewing our own food.....

Great reasoning AF-Anti fish farm are smarter than pro fish farm  ? And let's see the proof ? I've seen the raw data and it is NOT understandable unless your trained to read it. Hopefully someone will show it to you and then you can quit arguing that your capable of understanding it. As for the comment it should be posted regardless if NO ONE in the public can read it anyway what is the point  It would mean nothing to them anyway and then people like you will just say your being shown a bunch of meaningless numbers. Good grief.........