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[Rodney]

Thank you Rod I am fully aware of the post count and I also know that a majority of people who dont subscribe, become a troll after there 50 posts. I subscribed because your site is based on ethical fishing and teaching new anglers too fish not harvest because going fishing is my anti-deppresant and coming home with a fish is a bonus in my books. In the last year, ive heard alot more about this site from new anglers on the flow, I looked into your site and supported your cause. Ethical , legal fishing.

Thanks. Regarding those who attempt to reach 50 posts just to see the reports, we are usually pretty good at picking them out. Either their post count is reset or their account is deleted when that happens.

[zabber]

What this study has determined is the short term mortality of fish that have been caught and kept in condition that is a bit different to what they would endure in reality.

It seems that there are generally slower pockets of water along the river that fish can hold in in order to regain their strength after release. If most fish are released in "vigorous condition" I don't imagine that they will have a problem finding these pockets of water, if they even need them. Will a lip piercing and 1-2 minute "battle" really sap them of the energy they need to make it to their spawning ground? Maybe; I don't know enough about fish to make an educated guess, though I imagine it won't have much of an impact on many.

What these results demonstrate is that mortality is relatively low within the first 24 hours after these fish are caught and kept in waters with minimal current. Does it demonstrate that released fish can successfully reach their spawning ground once released? Furthermore, how does water temperature affect the mortality? These still need to be determined.

Fortunately they radio tagged some fish and when this data becomes available we will have some insight into the former. As for water temperature; the study was conducted from Aug 9 - 26. I imagine the Fraser was about as warm as it gets at that time of year, so this should strengthen whatever the findings may be. The slides mention something about a water temp data logger, though no temp measurements are provided in the slide deck. I'm sure the water temp of the Fraser fluctuates from year to year, but I imagine it's at it's warmest in the summer months (July - August), and has historically varied by a few degrees, on average.

The Freshwater Fisheries Society of BC has recently completely a three-year catch and release mortality study on stocked trout in lakes. The study determined that the average mortality, after fish are kept and observed for a week, is 11% and increases significantly when water temperature is above 13C.

This is exactly why I asked about the mortality data on p. 23. It is framed as a "comparison" but are apples being compared to apples? Why is plug cut herring fishing for chinook so much more deadly than bottom bouncing for sockeye? Is it because sockeye are hardier? Is it because the data obtained for the chinook was done so differently (i.e. is that data for radio tagged chinook)?

While the Fraser River salmon catch and release study has concluded that the mortality to be relatively low, anglers should not take that information and partake this fishery as a catch and release fishery. Whether you're flossing, or barfishing, you should consider to stop fishing once they have retained their quota of fish. ... Is it good that participants decide to retain two sockeye salmon then continue fishing by releasing more sockeye salmon until a chinook salmon is retained? Will fish released actually make it to their spawning ground and still manage to reproduce successfully? Time will tell. In the end, this is the resource for you to enjoy and protect for future enjoyment. We can continue questioning whether fish migrating in highly stressful condition should be caught and released, or we can play safe and not ending up asking a familiar age old question - "Why didn't they think of that?"

I hear ya, and this is certainly something that I've thought about while bottom bouncing, but -- on the flip side -- how many times do we think something is common sense, only to have it shown to be "an old wives tale" at a later time. Personally, I'm still on the fence about bb'ing, as I've heard compelling arguments from both the pro and the no camps. I'm glad some groups have decided to tackle this issue in a scientific manner so that at least we can have some insight into important questions. 'Til then, I will likely to continue to participate in this fishery once or twice a year, which may mean CnRing sox until I've bagged a chinook and pink or a couple of hours have gone by and I start to feel bad about interfering with fish migration. Then again, I may toss out a spin-n'-glo and a few cold ones instead, after taking my limit.

[liketofish]

Well just back from spending the weekend with friends and relatives up in Hope and catching a few sockeye (safely released) and bonking a few springs. Could'nt of asked for a better weekend as we left on Friday at noon so we had lots of time to recreate, get our fill of the sun and bounce up some Big Boy's, which we did.

Brought two home myself, a 15 and a 21lber, both red's and saw tons caught by friends. Sorry I could'nt hook up with you liketofish. I used your e-mail (it didn't work) to see if you wanted to join us as I could of showed you a spot a hell of a lot better than the Scale Bar. My sister drops us off and picks us up as soon as we phone her so we have to walk very little. We never had to go in the water once. Oh well, maybe next time liketofish if you're around and interested.

Not going to make this into a very detailed report but we did have a great time, everyone was extremely sociable as everyone always is there and we saw lot's of fish caught and kept. Deep frying some red spring as I type, or at least the wife is. Hey, I caught it and filleted it.

 Good Fishing All !!!

Congrats Athezone. Any time you can mingle with friends and families and have good fishing too, it is a memorable time. Sorry I missed your invitation as I have not checked the thread recently. Love to find somewhere else besides Scales which is easier for my aging body and I hate fishing with waders in summer.  

I have updated my email in the profile. So hopefully we can connect for some future trips. I live minutes from Port Mann Bridge in Port Coquitlam and can pick up anyone from Surrey & Langley close to H1 to share gas or alternate driving .

[Bassonator]

Love the justification for BBing..."being with friends"

[Dennis.t]

Love the justification for BBing..."being with friends"

I like your avatar. Ah friends being with friends. 

[oolichan2]

Love the justification for BBing..."being with friends"

No doubt, you'd think life didn't exist before BB.

On another thread one of the guys reasons for snagging was quality Sashimi - he claims the only way to get good sashimi is to snag sockeye. Nice try.

The end result of all these guys flossing springs will be a total river closure for springs. As Rod has pointed out, fisheries manages to escapement and BB is simply too effective. Once the number is hit, river gets closed. It's pretty easy to see where all this ends, in either a short season where everyone bounces to get their fish over a two week period or a total closure.

Just a few years back the river used to open for springs in June but BB is so effective that we didn't get a full opening until August this year. I hope all you BB fiends understand where this is all headed. I'm glad you're having fun snagging springs, enjoy it while you can 'cause it ain't going to last.

[chris gadsden]

No doubt, you'd think life didn't exist before BB.

On another thread one of the guys reasons for snagging was quality Sashimi - he claims the only way to get good sashimi is to snag sockeye. Nice try.

The end result of all these guys flossing springs will be a total river closure for springs. As Rod has pointed out, fisheries manages to escapement and BB is simply too effective. Once the number is hit, river gets closed. It's pretty easy to see where all this ends, in either a short season where everyone bounces to get their fish over a two week period or a total closure.

Just a few years back the river used to open for springs in June but BB is so effective that we didn't get a full opening until August this year. I hope all you BB fiends understand where this is all headed. I'm glad you're having fun snagging springs, enjoy it while you can 'cause it ain't going to last.

Yes, you have explained this as it is and by the way we used to open in May and now we keep slipping backwards because of this. Tough for us that take our fish by making them take our offering.

[Bassonator]

And thats why we have the meat fishery we have today.

[chris gadsden]

And thats why we have the meat fishery we have today.

Yes.

[Athezone]

Congrats Athezone. Any time you can mingle with friends and families and have good fishing too, it is a memorable time. Sorry I missed your invitation as I have not checked the thread recently. Love to find somewhere else besides Scales which is easier for my aging body and I hate fishing with waders in summer.  

I have updated my email in the profile. So hopefully we can connect for some future trips. I live minutes from Port Mann Bridge in Port Coquitlam and can pick up anyone from Surrey & Langley close to H1 to share gas or alternate driving .

I will be in touch liketofish and yeh, I don't care to wear wader's in the summer heat either. Luckily for us I've never had to wear them at this spot and you won't have to neither. I live in New West and have 2 vehicles so's getting around is fairly easy. I think you'll like this new spot 10 times better than the scale bar.

I stopped taking the long walk into that place 16 years ago and now, only go to a couple special spots, one of which I'll show you.

And as for the people complaining about bb'ing saying that it will shut down the river quicker : That may be the case but do you really think with the high water this year you would of bar fished in June, and some other fellow even mentioned May, that made me laugh. Yup, blame it all on the bb'ers and in the meantime I'll be laughing with friends and drinking a frosty. See Yah !!!!

[Bassonator]

I for one dont bar fish and in case you missed it I havent fished for salmon since 2009 the reason why..peeps like you.So enjoy your frosty and friends and thnx for those youtube meatfishery highlites every year.

[LP89CG]

So I have been reading a lot of this thread and I have a few things to say in regards to some of the "point of views"

Some people have NO CLUE what they are doing when it comes to fishing. Fishing is one of those activities where you now have to pretty much be taught or guided into the sport.

I was taught to bottom bounce, invested in bb'ing gear and thats almost the full extent of my salmon fishing. A lot of people view it as negative and I can understand why. But maybe some people are too intimidated, or dont know enough to try other techniques. I would probably have better luck making a fly rod into a spear and spear fishing than to even try casting, picking a fly, etc.

Last year I tried float fishing the vedder in the fall. I watched how to videos and read articles but that only goes so far. As a younger guy it gets intimidating going into a shop and pretty much asking/saying "hey, i have no clue what im doing, what gear to use, what method to fish with said gear." and that is why I go out, bottom bounce, " snag, floss, whatever" my salmon and eat em up.

Also having invested in bb gear I am strapped for funds for other gear. I would love to learn how to fish a centerpin, float fish properly, fly fish... etc.


So before everyone just thrashes the sh** out of bottom bouncing be a sport do something about it. Offer to teach, post videos, post things that you've found helpful. I know there is this huge secrecy thing with fishing, but I swear that wont help anything.

[Dennis.t]

I will be in touch liketofish and yeh, I don't care to wear wader's in the summer heat either. Luckily for us I've never had to wear them at this spot and you won't have to neither. I live in New West and have 2 vehicles so's getting around is fairly easy. I think you'll like this new spot 10 times better than the scale bar.

I stopped taking the long walk into that place 16 years ago and now, only go to a couple special spots, one of which I'll show you.

And as for the people complaining about bb'ing saying that it will shut down the river quicker : That may be the case but do you really think with the high water this year you would of bar fished in June, and some other fellow even mentioned May, that made me laugh. Yup, blame it all on the bb'ers and in the meantime I'll be laughing with friends and drinking a frosty. See Yah !!!!

Mmm.You are really showing your ignorance on this one.Im betting your a young fella with limited fishing experience. You bet we were fishing springs in May,long before BB was even a thought.

[Stratocaster]

So I have been reading a lot of this thread and I have a few things to say in regards to some of the "point of views"

Some people have NO CLUE what they are doing when it comes to fishing. Fishing is one of those activities where you now have to pretty much be taught or guided into the sport.

I was taught to bottom bounce, invested in bb'ing gear and thats almost the full extent of my salmon fishing. A lot of people view it as negative and I can understand why. But maybe some people are too intimidated, or dont know enough to try other techniques. I would probably have better luck making a fly rod into a spear and spear fishing than to even try casting, picking a fly, etc.

Last year I tried float fishing the vedder in the fall. I watched how to videos and read articles but that only goes so far. As a younger guy it gets intimidating going into a shop and pretty much asking/saying "hey, i have no clue what im doing, what gear to use, what method to fish with said gear." and that is why I go out, bottom bounce, " snag, floss, whatever" my salmon and eat em up.

Also having invested in bb gear I am strapped for funds for other gear. I would love to learn how to fish a centerpin, float fish properly, fly fish... etc.


So before everyone just thrashes the sh** out of bottom bouncing be a sport do something about it. Offer to teach, post videos, post things that you've found helpful. I know there is this huge secrecy thing with fishing, but I swear that wont help anything.

Therein lies the problem.  There are alot like you who are introduced to fishing on the Fraser flossing sockeye and since that's all they know, take it to other rivers.  I cringe when I see people using 50 lb braid, 4/0 hooks on the Vedder.

To me its a copout to say that you are too intimidated to go into a shop and ask how to float fish properly.  How do you think I learned?  This was long before there was even an internet or how to videos.  I went to Berry's, told them that I wanted to float fish for Coho and they hooked me up with decent roe, the proper sized hooks and line.  I went straight to the river and invested alot of time watching other people floatfishing (who were successful) I was not too afraid to ask questions.  I took home two coho the first time out and never looked back.  25 years later I'm still learning something new every year.  New spots, new way of preparing bait or new fly patterns.  It never stops.  That's what makes sportsfishing so fun.  I'm not bragging or anything, but now I am at the point where my buddies and I can go to almost any run on the Vedder and more likely than not outfish everyone else there.  We have so much confidence in the bait we are using, where we are fishing etc.. and all of it is SELF TAUGHT.  

I don't know, it seems the generation nowadays expect things to be handed to them.  

[LP89CG]

Therein lies the problem.  There are alot like you who are introduced to fishing on the Fraser flossing sockeye and since that's all they know, take it to other rivers.  I cringe when I see people using 50 lb braid, 4/0 hooks on the Vedder.

To me its a copout to say that you are too intimidated to go into a shop and ask how to float fish properly.  How do you think I learned?  This was long before there was even an internet or how to videos.  I went to Berry's, told them that I wanted to float fish for Coho and they hooked me up with decent roe, the proper sized hooks and line.  I went straight to the river and invested alot of time watching other people floatfishing (who were successful) I was not too afraid to ask questions.  I took home two coho the first time out and never looked back.  25 years later I'm still learning something new every year.  New spots, new way of preparing bait or new fly patterns.  It never stops.  That's what makes sportsfishing so fun.  I'm not bragging or anything, but now I am at the point where my buddies and I can go to almost any run on the Vedder and more likely than not outfish everyone else there.  We have so much confidence in the bait we are using, where we are fishing etc.. and all of it is SELF TAUGHT. 

I don't know, it seems the generation nowadays expect things to be handed to them. 

I don't expect everything to be handed to me. Some people dont have the luxury of walking in to a shop and dropping whatever amount of money on a set up. As I stated I learned to bb. I was given a spare set up to use before I got my own. Huge advantage. my point is it seems like the there is a lot of pissing and moaning about bouncing yet not a lot of people desire to lend a hand and encourage a camaraderie directed at fixing the problem.

Its easy to sit behind a computer or even behind your rod on the river and make comments, put bouncers down but what have you (not personally you whom im quoting) done to better things at the end of the day.