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[alwaysfishn]

According to a recent Fisheries and Oceans study the answer is, yes. 

".......the analysis showed that RAS technology is marginally viable from a financial perspective, but that it presents a higher level of risk compared to netpen systems.  .......  As with most developing or emerging technologies, once wider uptake within the sector is achieved, capital and operating costs may be expected to decrease. Should closed-containment technologies achieve a critical mass of production, economies of scale may be expected; capital items may cost less, and increased expertise could help to reduce operating costs."    http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/aquaculture/lib-bib/nasapi-inpasa/BC-aquaculture-CB-eng.pdf

As I first read this I wondered why DFO would even bother doing a study like this if they truly believed the open net feedlots weren't harming our ocean environment. The answer I believe is obvious, even though they won't admit it, DFO knows the feedlots are dangerous and is working on a plan B.

[Dave]

So let me get this straight af …. DFO is backing something you have been whining about for ages and now you dump on them?  Is it another conspiracy??
You are becoming a joke.

[curious]

 Another recent article concerning closed containment fish farming.

 The writer asks "Would it not be more 'economical' to circumvent the expense of destruction and compensation by growing salmon in disease-free closed containment facilities. "

 How You Can Have Your Healthy Environment and Eat Farmed Salmon Too.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/sue-scott/salmon-canada_b_1734084.html  

[Bassonator]

Whats done with the efluent? Is it just dumped or treated if its treated then there goes the cost some more.

[troutbreath]

All farming efluent should be treated or used in a manner that is safe. The US has poluted their water aquafiers by not doing so. I would not touch a glass of water from the mid states. That's why they moved the feed lots to Alberta.


Good post AF

[curious]

Yes, Thanks AF,
And a poll resulting in less than 14% of respondents supporting marine-based open net pen salmon farms

 http://www.asf.ca/what-do-you-think-of-aquaculture-poll-results.html

[alwaysfishn]

So let me get this straight af …. DFO is backing something you have been whining about for ages and now you dump on them?  Is it another conspiracy??
You are becoming a joke.

Why the insults Dave? Why not add something of value to the discussion rather than just flinging insults?

When I read this study I got a few things from it....
1. Contrary to what we keep hearing from the feedlot industry, closed containment is financially viable.
2. DFO knows there are problems with open net feedlots, otherwise they wouldn't have done any feasibility studies on closed containment.

[alwaysfishn]

Yes, Thanks AF,
And a poll resulting in less than 14% of respondents supporting marine-based open net pen salmon farms

 http://www.asf.ca/what-do-you-think-of-aquaculture-poll-results.html

Thanks for posting that survey as well as the Huffington Post article, and welcome to the discussion!

As you've probably seen, the pro-feedlot crowd isn't all that friendly. When they don't have an answer to a question they act like schoolyard bullies and start throwing insults. Be prepared for it.

[dnibbles]

Why the insults Dave? Why not add something of value to the discussion rather than just flinging insults?

When I read this study I got a few things from it....
1. Contrary to what we keep hearing from the feedlot industry, closed containment is financially viable.
2. DFO knows there are problems with open net feedlots, otherwise they wouldn't have done any feasibility studies on closed containment.

I certainly don't get the same things from reading this that you did. What I see is that RAS technology can be marginally profitable, and more sensitive to factors outside the aquaculturists control (market price, exchange rate) that would then render it unprofitable.

I agree that RAS technology poses less risk to the marine environment (note I don't just say less risk. There is then the issue of effluent discharge into freshwater bodies, with a much lower dilution rate than what would be seen in the marine environment). With the economics I see in this report, it isn't an industry I would choose to put my money in right now. A 4% ROE after 3 years compared to over 50% ROE with open pens doesn't exactly scream financially viable to me (unless you propose that the industry receive significant govt subsidy).

I also don't see this report as DFO "knowing there is a problem" with open net pen technologies. What I see is a proactive approach to address a perceived issue from some parties with a balanced, quantitative analysis. No opinion, no slant, just numbers. It's called risk assessment and management. Assess the risks, both the likelihood and potential impact, and then assess options, risks that go along with options, and the potential benefits of options.

Once again, for the record (since we seem to have to provide disclaimers every post lest we be labelled a pro-feedlot shareholder, incompetent angler and non-report posting web lurker): I do not work in the feedlot industry, I derive zero income from the fish farm industry, I own several fly rods, level winds, centerpins, and spinning reels which I can cast without tangling, I tie my own flies, I catch and release, I have read Haig-Brown, I fish less now than I used to (working with fish every day seems to have driven me to spend more time in the mountains than on  the rivers), I still spend 50+ days a year on the water, I gave up posting internet fishing reports when I was 19 and realized how pointless they are, and I've been around the fishing sites long enough to be bored of the majority of the other repetitive topics that continue to come up, hence the focus on this relatively new one.  Not sure if this legitimizes my postings, but since these attributes have been called into question in previous posts (by those who are getting bullied lol), I figure I will be proactive as well.

[absolon]

The report also contains the following proviso:

However, these findings still need to be assessed—and their assumptions validated—in a real-life scenario.

The second link to the ASF article on closed containment rearing would imply that their exercise has been successful. The reality is that they have only this year completed their first harvest, production statistics and financial results unspecified, and the second crop, targeted to be 22 tonnes total over 24+ months, will be funded by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation.

This same Foundation also subsidizes the Silver Springs RAS facility in Washington state, the most successful operation to date, to the tune of about $500,000 per year. That operation produces fish in the 2-4 lb range, 1/2 to 1/4 the size preferred by the markets.

The RAS system currently being setup on the North Island, based on a technical report produced for the BC government, has been funded with $800,000 of government money but is not yet operating.

To date, despite numerous attempts, there is no proven viable stand alone closed containment production rearing system for salmon.

[alwaysfishn]

Once again, for the record (since we seem to have to provide disclaimers every post lest we be labelled a pro-feedlot shareholder, incompetent angler and non-report posting web lurker): I do not work in the feedlot industry, I derive zero income from the fish farm industry, I own several fly rods, level winds, centerpins, and spinning reels which I can cast without tangling, I tie my own flies, I catch and release, I have read Haig-Brown, I fish less now than I used to (working with fish every day seems to have driven me to spend more time in the mountains than on  the rivers), I still spend 50+ days a year on the water, I gave up posting internet fishing reports when I was 19 and realized how pointless they are, and I've been around the fishing sites long enough to be bored of the majority of the other repetitive topics that continue to come up, hence the focus on this relatively new one.  Not sure if this legitimizes my postings, but since these attributes have been called into question in previous posts (by those who are getting bullied lol), I figure I will be proactive as well.

That's excellent! Why don't you put that in your profile, then you won't have to keep retyping it after each post.....     I find your posts generally informative and somewhat balanced. The fact you can cast a spinning reel without birds nesting it, also ups your rating in my books.

[alwaysfishn]

The report also contains the following proviso:

However, these findings still need to be assessed—and their assumptions validated—in a real-life scenario.

The second link to the ASF article on closed containment rearing would imply that their exercise has been successful. The reality is that they have only this year completed their first harvest, production statistics and financial results unspecified, and the second crop, targeted to be 22 tonnes total over 24+ months, will be funded by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation.

This same Foundation also subsidizes the Silver Springs RAS facility in Washington state, the most successful operation to date, to the tune of about $500,000 per year. That operation produces fish in the 2-4 lb range, 1/2 to 1/4 the size preferred by the markets.

The RAS system currently being setup on the North Island, based on a technical report produced for the BC government, has been funded with $800,000 of government money but is not yet operating.

To date, despite numerous attempts, there is no proven viable stand alone closed containment production rearing system for salmon.

Yesterday, Apple became the largest corporation by market capitalization in the history of mankind.....  They have become successful by being innovative while building product that is more expensive than the competition. Even though many people don't own an apple product, few people have anything negative to say about their products. Steve Jobs was famous for driving the organization to build product that the consumers want, not the cheapest product they could build.

Closed containment systems are not being used because we allow these foreign corporations to use our oceans as corporate cesspools...  basically for free. If somebody in government had the guts to put a stop to this, the feedlots would have to become innovative. As innovation happens and is adopted, costs come down. With an approval rating for open feedlots of less than 15% they have huge opportunities to gain market approval. 

[Bassonator]

Just a heads up Jobs was no angel, he stole most of Apples ideas, thats why I wont buy Apple.

[Bently]

Just a heads up Jobs was no angel, he stole most of Apples ideas, thats why I wont buy Apple.

Hahaha, but you'll buy sockeye off an Indian at your back yard fence, hahahahaha !!!!!

Your hilarious, I love it

[alwaysfishn]

Just a heads up Jobs was no angel, he stole most of Apples ideas, thats why I wont buy Apple.

Then for your situation think about what would have happened if Henry Ford would have said "To date, despite numerous attempts, there is no proven viable automobile."  I guess we'd still be driving horses and carriages......