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Author Topic: Mascaucre Hoes  (Read 30901 times)

Sandhead

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Re: Mascaucre Hoes
« Reply #45 on: September 13, 2012, 10:14:20 PM »

Brutal

These individuals are so lucky they dealt with the English and French a couple hundred years ago rather than the Portuguese and Spanish....
« Last Edit: September 13, 2012, 10:17:03 PM by Sandhead »
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Fillibert

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Re: Mascaucre Hoes
« Reply #46 on: September 13, 2012, 10:27:39 PM »

Portuguese were nicer
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milo

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Re: Mascaucre Hoes
« Reply #47 on: September 14, 2012, 12:02:17 AM »

Brutal
These individuals are so lucky they dealt with the English and French a couple hundred years ago rather than the Portuguese and Spanish....

 ::)

And you are so lucky the Internet allows people to display their ignorance without revealing their true identity.
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Sandman

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Re: Mascaucre Hoes
« Reply #48 on: September 14, 2012, 12:13:10 AM »

There was a large palisaded Indian village at the mouth of the river when Captain George Vancouver sailed into the inlet in 1793, as there were on all major rivers along the coast. Back then the natives used large rock and wooden weirs to trap and harvest their salmon from the river. What you're seeing in the video is no different from a historical re-creation.

If you live in the GVRD area, don't forget to thank the Squamish Nation every time you turn on your water tap, water your lawn or wash your truck, because the Cleveland Dam that supplies all or some of that water wiped out 95% of the spawning areas in the river and destroying the native fishery on the river. The hatchery was built to replace a portion of that lost fish but you should be thankful the band hasn't called for all recreational fishing be banned from the river until they get all of their harvest...the courts would back them up.

Not "sporting"? The very idea of sport fishing, particularly catch and release, is abhorrent to most indigenous people. They aren't recreational fishermen. They catch fish and game for food, not for sport or to play with. See what your wife thinks when you borrow the Thanksgiving turkey for a quick game of turkey basketball in the driveway. You're projecting your cultural values on a different culture...you might as well try to open a sports bar in Saudi Arabia.


Thanks SA, you beat me to the punch on this one. While I understand concerns over the wild fish, particularly any steelhead, that may have gotten mixed into the coho, really the issue over the FN harvesting the coho on the Cap is a long standing one that is often misunderstood.  Your BC government built the dam that wiped out the truly "wild" fish in this river, and that hatchery that "our tax dollars" pay for was set up to mitigate the ecological and economic impact that dam had, not only for our commercial and sport fishery, but the FN one as well.   These are not sports anglers, it is comparable to a commercial harvest, and this scene is not much different that the scene on a seiner when the net dumps the fish on the deck.  The difference is that it is happen right on a river bank, right under a public bridge, and right in sight of the general public (now broadcast on You tube). 

Where was the uproar when THIS happened?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5liEGlZq5k

And over 13k sockeye were killed in this single set.  How many were endangered Cultus Lake Sockeye?  How many wild coho?  Thompson steelhead? 

No shock, no racist slurs. THIS is acceptable.  But if a  group FN youth engages in the same activity on the a river their ancestors harvested fish on for centuries (before we exterminated the run with a dam), oh for THAT people cry foul.  Hypocrites.


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samw

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Re: Mascaucre Hoes
« Reply #49 on: September 14, 2012, 12:37:44 AM »

Thanks SA, you beat me to the punch on this one. While I understand concerns over the wild fish, particularly any steelhead, that may have gotten mixed into the coho, really the issue over the FN harvesting the coho on the Cap is a long standing one that is often misunderstood.  Your BC government built the dam that wiped out the truly "wild" fish in this river, and that hatchery that "our tax dollars" pay for was set up to mitigate the ecological and economic impact that dam had, not only for our commercial and sport fishery, but the FN one as well.   These are not sports anglers, it is comparable to a commercial harvest, and this scene is not much different that the scene on a seiner when the net dumps the fish on the deck.  The difference is that it is happen right on a river bank, right under a public bridge, and right in sight of the general public (now broadcast on You tube).  

Where was the uproar when THIS happened?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5liEGlZq5k

And over 13k sockeye were killed in this single set.  How many were endangered Cultus Lake Sockeye?  How many wild coho?  Thompson steelhead?  

No shock, no racist slurs. THIS is acceptable.  But if a  group FN youth engages in the same activity on the a river their ancestors harvested fish on for centuries (before we exterminated the run with a dam), oh for THAT people cry foul.  Hypocrites.




Agreed.  

With no rain in the forecast for the foreseeable future, won't they pretty much wipe out the whole run this year?

Fic, the bulk of the run is stacking up at the mouth.  So I don't think this will decimate the run.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2012, 12:41:27 AM by samw »
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DanJohn

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Re: Mascaucre Hoes
« Reply #50 on: September 14, 2012, 12:55:58 AM »

Thanks SA, you beat me to the punch on this one. While I understand concerns over the wild fish, particularly any steelhead, that may have gotten mixed into the coho, really the issue over the FN harvesting the coho on the Cap is a long standing one that is often misunderstood.  Your BC government built the dam that wiped out the truly "wild" fish in this river, and that hatchery that "our tax dollars" pay for was set up to mitigate the ecological and economic impact that dam had, not only for our commercial and sport fishery, but the FN one as well.   These are not sports anglers, it is comparable to a commercial harvest, and this scene is not much different that the scene on a seiner when the net dumps the fish on the deck.  The difference is that it is happen right on a river bank, right under a public bridge, and right in sight of the general public (now broadcast on You tube). 

Where was the uproar when THIS happened?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5liEGlZq5k

And over 13k sockeye were killed in this single set.  How many were endangered Cultus Lake Sockeye?  How many wild coho?  Thompson steelhead? 

No shock, no racist slurs. THIS is acceptable.  But if a  group FN youth engages in the same activity on the a river their ancestors harvested fish on for centuries (before we exterminated the run with a dam), oh for THAT people cry foul.  Hypocrites.




Sick. And I dont mean wrong, I mean, "Yodas gonna feel this one!" sick.
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Fillibert

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Re: Mascaucre Hoes
« Reply #51 on: September 14, 2012, 01:03:24 AM »

White people might have destroyed some fisheries to have running water and electricity so now we have limits and regulations on fishing. So since native fish were taken away from natives they get no limits. So why da hell do they get to use white man's water and electricity? There is no way that the locals would have that kind of infrastructure if it wasn't brought from Europe. They were thousands of years behind in tech when whities got here. So choose, either get native rights or live like everyone else.
Really don't mean to offend anyone but as someone whose parents have gone through immigration, having to rebuild their lives by working hard I do get upset when people who were born in this wonderful nation of Canada with every right imaginable and more still need and ask extra consideration.

PS commercial fisheries pay for licences and still follow rules.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2012, 01:09:42 AM by Fillibert »
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dennyman

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Re: Mascaucre Hoes
« Reply #52 on: September 14, 2012, 01:33:19 AM »

By posting this video on youtube what was the point?  Was it to educate people about how natives fish on the Capilano River in the Fall of 2012. If so I have to say the video was a complete failure. If I was one of the elders for this tribe, I would say to take the video down. All you have to do is take a look at the racist and threatening comments that have been made about this video to see what I am talking about. Not arguing that Natives have a right to harvest the Coho in the river, but there is a right and wrong way to go about doing things. They could have harvested the fish in a manner without all the loud boasting, hollering and whooping, and the use of the fishing nets.  Like it or not, we all share the land and should strive to get along and be good neighbors to one another. Videos like this do nothing but stir the pot about native fishing rights in this province.
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Stratocaster

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Re: Mascaucre Hoes
« Reply #53 on: September 14, 2012, 05:20:29 AM »

Thanks SA, you beat me to the punch on this one. While I understand concerns over the wild fish, particularly any steelhead, that may have gotten mixed into the coho, really the issue over the FN harvesting the coho on the Cap is a long standing one that is often misunderstood.  Your BC government built the dam that wiped out the truly "wild" fish in this river, and that hatchery that "our tax dollars" pay for was set up to mitigate the ecological and economic impact that dam had, not only for our commercial and sport fishery, but the FN one as well.   These are not sports anglers, it is comparable to a commercial harvest, and this scene is not much different that the scene on a seiner when the net dumps the fish on the deck.  The difference is that it is happen right on a river bank, right under a public bridge, and right in sight of the general public (now



I'm not opposed to them getting fish.  my point was that they get them anyways!  There's no need to block off the river thus basically shutting out a user group.

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paddy

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Re: Mascaucre Hoes
« Reply #54 on: September 14, 2012, 08:29:42 AM »

Those fish are for sale on the reserve.  Having grown up in West Vancouver, we would always buy our fish from the band.  I don't anymore though.

Sure it is their right, but then why do we subsidize them?  That band is one of the richest in Canada.  They own Park Royal for pete's sake!
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cutthroat22

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Re: Mascaucre Hoes
« Reply #55 on: September 14, 2012, 08:35:45 AM »

They own Park Royal for pete's sake!

No they don't lol.  They lease the southern portion of the mall (on their land) to a large corporation.
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paddy

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Re: Mascaucre Hoes
« Reply #56 on: September 14, 2012, 08:48:01 AM »

cutthroat

yes they do.

And they are planning on putting highrises right on Ambleside beach.

Just look at the new development where the hotel used to be.

This is a very rich band, and they make millions from lease payments from Park Royal.

And I say good for them.  But the greed from selling fish at the side of the road just goes too far.
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cutthroat22

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Re: Mascaucre Hoes
« Reply #57 on: September 14, 2012, 09:15:31 AM »

cutthroat

yes they do.

And they are planning on putting highrises right on Ambleside beach.

Just look at the new development where the hotel used to be.

This is a very rich band, and they make millions from lease payments from Park Royal.

And I say good for them.  But the greed from selling fish at the side of the road just goes too far.


No they don't.  I am quite familiar with the owners of Park Royal.

http://www.leasingatparkroyal.com/about-us
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Sandhead

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Re: Mascaucre Hoes
« Reply #58 on: September 14, 2012, 03:50:20 PM »

::)

And you are so lucky the Internet allows people to display their ignorance without revealing their true identity.

What I was trying to convene was that they are lucky that they benefit from the government of this country. In many places the "first people" dont have those rights...
I don't hide my beliefs behind the anonymity of the internet. I voice the same opinion in person.

I dislike a system where certain individuals have more rights than others based on hereditary rights rather than merit.
It's people that support a society that  rewards  hereditary rights that are ignorant
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Sandman

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Re: Mascaucre Hoes
« Reply #59 on: September 14, 2012, 07:54:46 PM »


These individuals are so lucky they dealt with the English and French a couple hundred years ago rather than the Portuguese and Spanish....

You know you are right, they ARE lucky they dealt with the English and French rather than the Spanish.  They are also lucky that the French and British and later the British and Americans were in such stiff competition against each other, and that the British (who ultimately claimed sovereignty over their land) wanted to make sure the First Nations people supported them and did not side with their enemies when push came to shove.  However lucky they were, their rights to live here and to hunt and fish in the land of their ancestors was recognized by your own sovereign, and therefore you have to live with that.  Until they sign a treaty, you are living in land that was promised to them as their "hunting grounds" and until such time, you should be thankful that you are dealing with them, and not with a people that truly believes they "own" Park Royal, or you would not be fishing there at all, weirs or no weirs.  Furthermore, you have as many "hereditary rights" as any First Nations person does.  Our Constitution grants you numerous rights based on you simply having being born a Canadian.  Your arguments to assimilate them into Canadian culture to make them "equal" is the same arguments the Americans made when invading Canada in 1812.  While you may think it is for their own good and in their best interests, it is THEIR right to choose how and when they join Canada as "equals."  Since you are unable to give them back their land, and they must remain on a reservation, the size and location of which your own government determined, then your government is obligated to provide the services they promised to provide until such time as they agree to join Canadian Society.  While we were able to repell the American invasion in 1812 (with considerable help from the British regulars), and were not forced to live on reservations until we agreed to join American Society, The First Nations were not so lucky.  I am sure they would love you to treat them as "equals" and let them have their country back, but since you are not willing to do that, we must try to find a way to bring them into our society, but it will be on their own terms, not ours.
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