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Author Topic: Mascaucre Hoes  (Read 28469 times)

Dr. Backlash

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Re: Mascaucre Hoes
« Reply #60 on: September 14, 2012, 08:26:58 PM »

Sandman - another voice of reason
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hookR

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fishyfish

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Re: Mascaucre Hoes
« Reply #62 on: September 14, 2012, 08:59:31 PM »

Today's Indians should be thankful that Captain George didn't kill all of them . He no doubt could of and as  others have hinted if it were another person, or organization would of.  


That was 1793 for gods sake. 1793. 219 Years ago. I feel for THOSE poor Indians. But it is 2012. In this day and age it is called reverse discrimination. Reverse discrimination is a term referring to discrimination against members of a dominant or MAJORITY group, in this case non Indian,  or in favor of members of a minority or historically disadvantaged group. Identical treatment may sometimes act to preserve inequality rather than eliminate it.

I can understand the Indians wanting to preserve their way of life. I am jealous as hell.  I just don't get it though. If I had of fought to maintain the way of life "we" had  in the 70's I would have been called a racist. It would be great to have affordable housing, smaller class sizes in school, lots of trees and beautiful wilderness. I would love to go back to the few people we had on the rivers with abundant fish. The few rules we had to deal with limits, gear etc. The fishing was amazing.  The reality of the situation is times change. The world evolved. Immigration occurred. Over population has happened. And I or we have had to deal with it. Looking at it now I guess I should of acted like the Indians. Preserved my way of life. Stayed entitled.  

Maybe the time is now to actually do something as small as it may be. That area below that bridge. Is it designated Indian only land? I know we will have very different ideas whether it is or not. Are non Indian allowed on that piece of river? If we are I would be willing to go in there with a group and remove those weirs. Will anybody join me?
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fishyfish

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Re: Mascaucre Hoes
« Reply #63 on: September 14, 2012, 09:00:43 PM »

Does anybody have a copy of that video? I really wanted a copy. Damn missed it by a few hours.
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chronic_topdawg

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Re: Mascaucre Hoes
« Reply #64 on: September 14, 2012, 09:00:55 PM »

Wow that killed  a day of drama, guess they got tired of seein the comments on the video.  Some were good :o
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samw

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Re: Mascaucre Hoes
« Reply #65 on: September 15, 2012, 12:37:56 AM »

Seriously?  We've taken practically 100% of their land.  In BC, only .4% of the land are First Nations Reserves (technically and legally, reservation land is still owned by the federal govt).  In exchange they have a few rights including some fishing rights.  Talk about one sided.  There is no need to even talk about discrimination (reverse or not).  When I saw the video, I see a bunch of people having a good time harvesting fish, doing what's within their rights, and not hurting other people.  Just let them have the fish.  The rain will come and the bulk of the run will make it up to the hatchery.  Both sides will get their fish.

http://www.canada.com/business/Should+First+Nations+reserve+have+property+rights+Here+primer/7054647/story.html

« Last Edit: September 15, 2012, 12:48:46 AM by samw »
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DanJohn

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Re: Mascaucre Hoes
« Reply #66 on: September 15, 2012, 12:53:44 AM »

Seriously?  We've taken practically 100% of their land.  In BC, only .4% of the land are First Nations Reserves (technically and legally, reservation land is still owned by the federal govt).  In exchange they have a few rights including some fishing rights.  Talk about one sided.  There is no need to even talk about discrimination (reverse or not).  When I saw the video, I see a bunch of people having a good time harvesting fish, doing what's within their rights, and not hurting other people.  Just let them have the fish.

http://www.canada.com/business/Should+First+Nations+reserve+have+property+rights+Here+primer/7054647/story.html



So far, from what I have seen in this thread, the thread on FLYBC, the Comments on the video, it is purely a case of people whining in order to whine. Rodney brought up the only valid argument, that they appeared to be offing the fish so quickly, mis-id'ing the fish was possible. Aside from that, people have whined about the rights of the natives, whether they acted like jackasses or not, and whether they should or should not be allowed to use weirs and net the fish. Oh also, I read about someone complaining because they killed the fish. KILLED THE FISH! These people were not fishing, they are not supposed to handle the fish with care to C&R them, it was a harvest. There was excitment due to the amount of fish. It was not tactful and graceful, but nothing done was wrong. Well, the stomping of fish is kind of disrespectful, but that falls under jackassery imo. You have fishyfish talking about taking the weirs down, and some people making threats. It really baffles my mind that people are that up in arms, over natives taking hatchery fish. If they were wild, and actually screwing over the run of fish, I could see it. But they are hatchery fish. They were PUT there, TO TAKE. Because sporties cant get those fish, everyone freaks out.

This really blew my mind to see so much BS. I dont know about anyone else, but some of the responses here, and most on the video comments section disgusted me a hell of a lot more than the video itself.
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Sandman

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Re: Mascaucre Hoes
« Reply #67 on: September 15, 2012, 10:34:43 AM »

Today's Indians should be thankful that Captain George didn't kill all of them . He no doubt could of and as  others have hinted if it were another person, or organization would of.  

Really?  He could have?  With the all but 153 men he left England with, some of whom undoubtedly died along the way and those still alive would have been in rough shape after 3 years at sea given the deplorable conditions on those ships?  No, more likely George was thankful those 50 odd natives paddling out to his ships came bearing gifts of smoked salmon and not weapons.  Thankful that their more numerous population (the native population of Howe Sound before contact is estimated to be in the tens of thousands before small pox wiped out 1/3 of their population in 1770) had a prophecy that the coming of a strange group of people would precipitate a calamity to follow and chose to offer gifts to these newcomers to try to avoid the calamity.  They could have just as easily decided to chase them off or even destroy them to avoid the prophetic calamity, but George was thankful they did not.  In fact there would not be a Canada today, if the First Nations across the country had not been so welcoming of these small groups of Europeans, and so willing to share their land with them.  The first explorers owed their lives to the good will of the natives that showed them how to survive the harsh winters, showed them what local plants were safe to eat, and provided them with food to replenish their stores for the return journey.  Those First Nations had no idea of millions of greedy people waiting back home to come and take advantage of their hospitality, to steal everything they had, and then to whine and complain that they want to save a few of their "entitlements" in an attempt to preserve their cultural identity in their own land now dominated by a culture not their own in a country of which they had no say in its creation.

That was 1793 for gods sake. 1793. 219 Years ago. I feel for THOSE poor Indians. But it is 2012. In this day and age it is called reverse discrimination. Reverse discrimination is a term referring to discrimination against members of a dominant or MAJORITY group, in this case non Indian,  or in favor of members of a minority or historically disadvantaged group. Identical treatment may sometimes act to preserve inequality rather than eliminate it.

The problem here is that YOU are not being discriminated against in order to preserve their right to fish.  You have lost nothing to preserve their right.  Reverse discrimination applies when I give a FN applicant a job that you wanted when you were more qualified just because she is FN.  But you lost nothing to allow them to fish, no more than you are discriminated against to give a commercial fisherman the right to catch salmon with a net when you are only allowed the use of a hook and line.  You still have your own rights, they are just not the same as theirs.  The problem you have is understanding that our Country was created on a fundamental injustice and we a still trying to figure out how to come to a place where we (FN and Canadians) can both exist in the same place.  Forcing them to accept that they are Canadians just like us (however brilliant that seems to us) would be no different than the Chinese marching in here and telling you that you must accept that you are now Chinese just like them.

I can understand the Indians wanting to preserve their way of life. I am jealous as hell.  I just don't get it though. If I had of fought to maintain the way of life "we" had  in the 70's I would have been called a racist. It would be great to have affordable housing, smaller class sizes in school, lots of trees and beautiful wilderness. I would love to go back to the few people we had on the rivers with abundant fish. The few rules we had to deal with limits, gear etc. The fishing was amazing.  The reality of the situation is times change. The world evolved. Immigration occurred. Over population has happened. And I or we have had to deal with it. Looking at it now I guess I should of acted like the Indians. Preserved my way of life. Stayed entitled. 

Yes!  You should have! and it is not too late!  Write letters to your government! To the Newspapers! To anyone who will listen! Demand affordable housing!  Demand smaller class sizes!  Fight to protect the few remaining trees and wilderness areas left!  Preserve your way of life!  Do NOT roll over!  You ARE entitled!

Maybe the time is now to actually do something as small as it may be. That area below that bridge. Is it designated Indian only land? I know we will have very different ideas whether it is or not. Are non Indian allowed on that piece of river? If we are I would be willing to go in there with a group and remove those weirs. Will anybody join me?

Yes that land is on their Reserve, the small scrap of land your government set aside for them to live if they wanted to maintain their status as an "Indian".  Non natives are allowed on that piece of river only with permission of the band.  The weir is, of course, in the middle of the river which is not technically native land, but you would need to cross native land to get to it to vandalize it.  I would hope that no one else would join you, but good luck as I am sure the native lads would defend it vigorously.
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Bandit420

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Re: Mascaucre Hoes
« Reply #68 on: September 15, 2012, 03:39:16 PM »

Ya good luck with taking those weirs out, the FN will make short work of anyone who trys and they should.
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rickjames_2

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Re: Mascaucre Hoes
« Reply #69 on: September 15, 2012, 04:06:49 PM »

Ya good luck with taking those weirs out, the FN will make short work of anyone who trys and they should.

Slightly ridiculous to suggest that violence(or whatever you intend by "short work") is a good course of action for anyone to take in this situation.

Not necessarily taking a side here but it just seems a bit off to support a violent response by either side. Neither side would be right in that case.
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nickredway

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Re: Mascaucre Hoes
« Reply #70 on: September 15, 2012, 06:39:34 PM »

What are you guys whining about? The river has been unfishable for legit fishers at like 0 feet for the last couple of months. If you think that the weirs are limiting your fishing opportunities then you are out to lunch. Keep your powder dry and wait for it to rain.
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Pac NW

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Re: Mascaucre Hoes
« Reply #71 on: September 15, 2012, 08:13:02 PM »

Are FN's only allowed to capture fish like this in the part of the Cap that runs through the reserve or can they snag or net fish anywhere in the Cap?
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TrophyHunter

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Re: Mascaucre Hoes
« Reply #72 on: September 15, 2012, 09:11:24 PM »

....
« Last Edit: September 16, 2012, 10:50:36 PM by TrophyHunter »
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Sandman

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Re: Mascaucre Hoes
« Reply #73 on: September 16, 2012, 09:47:31 PM »

You can argue native rights until you are blue in the face but it doesn't matter !!! These fish are being illegally sold out of the back of pickup trucks, not used for food and ceremony. The hatchery coho are there to supply fishing opportunities for everybody, not to be penned in a weir and sold illegally.

Really?  You know this for a fact do you? All these fish were sold out of a pickup truck? None were eaten by these or any other natives?  None were used for ceremonial purposes?  Is that a fact? Or are you making another blatant generalization because you saw a native selling fish before?  I saw a guy beat his dog, so you must beat your dog too, eh?  Poor animal.  The SPCA should take it away from you to save it.  Do you see how ridiculous that sounds? People of every race break the law.  Any native selling salmon out of a pickup truck is stealing from the band.  No different than a sporty knowingly bonking a wild fish.  Doesn't mean all sporties should have the licenses taken away.

The hatchery coho are there to supply fishing opportunities for everybody,

Yes, the hatchery coho are there to supply fishing opportunities for everybody, and the sporties and commercial guys out in the chuck already had their crack at them, now it is the native's turn.

not to be penned in a weir

And by what right do you have to determine how they catch their salmon?  These are not recreational fishermen, and their ancestors used weirs since time immemorial.  Yeah, yeah, yeah, they did not use metal shopping carts, but then your grandpa did not use graphite rods and flourocarbon leaders either.

and sold illegally.

Again, you have not shown any evidence that in this case this is anything but racist slander.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2012, 10:02:12 PM by Sandman »
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Drewhill

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Re: Mascaucre Hoes
« Reply #74 on: September 16, 2012, 09:59:54 PM »

Can't really blame the FN for fishing like that. They are allowed to do it. If people have a problem with it they need to get mad at the government for allowing it. And lets face it, we all say it's brutal and bad but if we were allowed to do it I'm sure there'd be weirs all over the cap. Look at how many people snag fish at dog leg and cable pool that aren't FN.
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