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[absolon]

Thanks gilbey. That explains it. I'm definitely not a mason.


And here I was beginning to think that the reason Chris wouldn't answer is because he couldn't think of anything constructive that Staniford accomplished or any job he got done.

[Dave]

And here I was beginning to think that the reason Chris wouldn't answer is because he couldn't think of anything constructive that Staniford accomplished or any job he got done.

 

[chris gadsden]

I am so surprised that Abby can not locate this info, oh well he will one day, I think.

[absolon]

I bet you are Chris 

[Dave]

I am so surprised that Abby can not locate this info, oh well he will one day, I think.

Hey Chris, let's cut to the chase here …“ Abby cannot locate this info”  ... because it doesn't exist. You know it, I know it and every follower of this thread definitley knows absolon knows it.
Most times when you're confronted with questions like this your backups back you; so, calling on all you anti’s for something positive to say regarding Staniford’s efforts to save wild BC salmon.     
Let's have something he has done to further habitat restoration, curtail over harvesting, oppose or offer alternatives to IPP’s/pipeline expansions, question Northern Pacific ocean ranching, appease an ever growing human population that demands fresh salmon…. you  know,  the things that are important and will make a difference

[troutbreath]

Dave the guy's name is Don not Jesus.   You name me the next Messiah of protecting the fish the way you see it and I'm paying for manna and drinks.

[alwaysfishn]

While the court case was going on they tried to vilify Don for the fact he spoke his opinion that feedlots are like tobacco companies; killing machines that are allowed to exist. Now that the courts have dismissed their charges (read; the bullies have been put in their place) their new tact is to suggest that Don has done nothing for wild salmon....

Give it a break boys....  I don't know of any single name that has been given credit for making the public aware that tobacco is a killer and although it still exists as a product, it's ability to "push" it's product has been severely curtailed. Hopefully some day it will disappear totally.

The fight against feedlots in the ocean is similar in that the damage they are doing is not yet well known by the public. Don is just one of many that are making the public aware of the dangers of allowing these cesspools to exist in our oceans.

The tobacco/feedlot analogy is a brilliant way to get the public to understand the feedlot business. Don deserves the credit for pointing that out!

[absolon]

The problems with your thesis are manifold. The public is almost entirely unaware of Staniford and his campaign to vilify the farms; there was no media coverage of his campaign and indeed, next to no coverage of his trial. You reactionaries in the choir drank up every word but you're already predisposed to seek out and believe anyone who shares your views. The court, while it released Staniford from damages, determined both that he had maliciously defamed Mainstream and that he is not a credible source of information.

Staniford's campaign didn't save a single wild fish. It didn't influence the regulation or practices of the farms or provide any factual, credible information to improve understanding of the effects farms might have on wild stocks. It's sole purpose was to influence the opinion of the public about farms and but it never reached the audience it was seeking. It is questionable whether, even if it had, juvenile tactics such as dressing up in a condom costume or calling all farmers "poopy-heads" would have made any impression on anyone who wasn't already a true believer.

So it all comes back to the initial questions I asked Chris. What job did Staniford get done? What benefit to the wild fish did he accomplish? What real return did all of you who sent him money get for your dollars? I don't mean the emotional satisfaction you took from his juvenile antics. I mean what tangible, on the ground benefit is he responsible for?

And a corollary question.........how can you expect to accomplish your aim to shut down the farm industry if you continue to pick ineffective specimens such as Staniford as your champions?

[alwaysfishn]

The problems with your thesis are manifold. The public is almost entirely unaware of Staniford and his campaign to vilify the farms; there was no media coverage of his campaign and indeed, next to no coverage of his trial.

Com'on  Abby.......    where's some facts to support your statements. Show me some studies that have been done to prove that Don hasn't been effective in delivering his message. Without studies your arguments are sounding like someone who has eaten a lot of sour grapes. Why don't you just admit that the feedlot business gambled on this one and lost......   big time!   

[Dave]

Com'on  Abby.......    where's some facts to support your statements. Show me some studies that have been done to prove that Don hasn't been effective in delivering his message. Without studies your arguments are sounding like someone who has eaten a lot of sour grapes. Why don't you just admit that the feedlot business gambled on this one and lost......   big time!   

Seriously af, Chris, et al … don't you cringe whenever this man speaks, not knowing what silliness will come next? Can you really support, morally, verbally and financially, a man who dresses in costumes and makes a spectacle of himself and has been called an unreliable source of information?  And, perhaps secretly, don't you wish for a more creditable spokesman for your cause?  Sure, this fool is on our radar but ask your neighbour or the person beside you at the grocery checkout  - who is Don Staniford and what does he stand for?
Hope for some honest answers but don't expect them.

[alwaysfishn]

Seriously af, Chris, et al … don't you cringe whenever this man speaks, not knowing what silliness will come next? Can you really support, morally, verbally and financially, a man who dresses in costumes and makes a spectacle of himself and has been called an unreliable source of information?  And, perhaps secretly, don't you wish for a more creditable spokesman for your cause?  Sure, this fool is on our radar but ask your neighbour or the person beside you at the grocery checkout  - who is Don Staniford and what does he stand for?
Hope for some honest answers but don't expect them.

Mainstream just spent a lot of money taking a "man who dresses in costumes and makes a spectacle of himself" to court. Why didn't they just ignore him if as Abby says, no one is listening to him? To top is all off they lost the case and will have to pay some of his expenses.

Who really is the fool here and unfortunately for you feedlot boys, that reflects back on you guys. Are you aware that you are supporting a bunch of arrogant "fools" who think they can beat people into submission who dare to reveal the damage they are causing to our environment?

Think about it.

[chris gadsden]

Com'on  Abby.......    where's some facts to support your statements. Show me some studies that have been done to prove that Don hasn't been effective in delivering his message. Without studies your arguments are sounding like someone who has eaten a lot of sour grapes. Why don't you just admit that the feedlot business gambled on this one and lost......   big time!   

You will never convince Abby, Dave and a few others on this, they will try to pick everything and anything apart but without success, I in all respect, will add.

The key word in this is "awareness" that has been brought forward by Don but many do not see this. We will most likely never know what the work Alex, Don Anissa and many others has done to effect the decisions of government in giving more permits for expansions plans and fish farms safety measures on existing pens. Lets see what Cohen says at the end of the month as the fish farm concerns were bought forward by Alex and her lawyer a few months ago. Also the effect their work has on the public buying this product which to many of us is an unhealthy food source.

I know as soon as I post this the pick a part will start but I put this in simple terms because I am just a simple person who tries the best I can to save what is precious to many of us, wild salmon as well as the environment. No fancy or flowery words from me like some do, to try and make what they say is the truth.

I will stand on my record of what I try to do on many fronts the last 30 plus years, as a volunteer.

[Dave]

Honest and heartfelt answers from both of you, especially the usually silent Chris. Thanks

[chris gadsden]

Honest and heartfelt answers from both of you, especially the usually silent Chris. Thanks

You are welcome, working on 5 other projects at this time and doing some fishing, too much time spent on the computer as it is.

[chris gadsden]

http://metronews.ca/news/vancouver/404657/b-c-salmon-farm-appeals-defamation-ruling/