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[IronNoggin]

Call to Action

On October 22, 2012 join and support people from across Canada in BC’s Capital in defending our coast from tar sands tankers and pipelines. Then, on October 24th, in communities across BC let’s show BC’s unbroken wall of opposition by linking arms at our MLA offices.

http://defendourcoast.ca/

[arimaBOATER]

The safety record for transporting oil surely should be graded with a letter "F" as in failing grade.

Too many pipeline breaks & a lot of big tanker spills have happened worldwide.
PNW waters & shores will never be the same if a major spill happens.

Has Alaskan waters ever recovered ? Valdez spill.
Will the Gulf of Mexico ever be the same ? after the BP pipe break.

$$$$ seems to rule nearly every decision by the BIG BOYS so my guess the pipeline will go ahead & tankers going across the Pacific.

[RainbowMan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il5GYFEDJfk

For those who have access to Netflix, watch the documentary 'BigFix' about the BP spill in the gulf of Mexico. With the Valdez spill in Alaska and all the lessons learned from the previous spills who can guarantee that this pipeline is 100% safe for AB and BC? What pisses me off is that some of the local radio stations are broadcasting "Infomercials" about how environmentally safe the Norther Pipeline technology is and how "all the BC residents will benefit from this project" A FAT LIE FROM THE BIG OIL COMPANIES SUPPORTED BY CORRUPT POLITICIANS 

[ByteMe]

Regardless of the political bantering going on,it will go through eventually.There is wayyyyyy too much money at stake for the feds,not to push it through one way or another.As protests mount in Northern B.C,you will see one hand on demonstration sign, and the other hand behind their back with palms open,everyone wants a piece of the pie,and they will  eventually sweeten the pot for all concerned,be a sad day for our coast when it happens

[Matt]

Regardless of the political bantering going on,it will go through eventually.There is wayyyyyy too much money at stake for the feds,not to push it through one way or another.As protests mount in Northern B.C,you will see one hand on demonstration sign, and the other hand behind their back with palms open,everyone wants a piece of the pie,and they will  eventually sweeten the pot for all concerned,be a sad day for our coast when it happens

Conservative senator BC's former energy minister/ advocate for pipeline, Richard Neufield disagrees with you, have a read here.  I would have guessed Enbridge had a chance back at the start of the year, but public opposition is huge now.  I think the chance is pretty small that the pipeline will be built now.

  http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/Energy+advocate+doubts+Enbridge+ability+Northern+Gateway+pipeline+built/7360165/story.html



OTTAWA — One of Canada’s most outspoken champions of the oil and gas industry has doubts whether Enbridge will ever build a pipeline to the B.C. coast — even if the $6-billion project gets federal approval.

Former B.C. energy minister Richard Neufeld, now a Conservative senator, said he strongly supports the construction of pipelines to the B.C. coast so Canada can ship Alberta’s diluted bitumen crude to booming Asian markets.

But he said Enbridge has so badly mismanaged the $6-billion project that he questions whether the Calgary company has the public credibility to proceed with the megaproject even if the National Energy Board approves the application next year.

“I don’t know whether Enbridge has actually screwed up bad enough that even if it was okayed, whether let’s say the NEB says, ‘Hey, this plan looks good, we can go ahead,’ that Enbridge would be able to actually build that pipeline,” he told The Vancouver Sun.

“I just think Enbridge has left such a sour taste in most peoples’ mouths.”

Neufeld also said he supports B.C. Premier Christy Clark’s demand to get a bigger share of cash for B.C. from the project before approving it.

He supports Premier Alison Redford’s position that B.C. has no right to claim a share of Alberta’s royalties, but said Victoria should have no trouble using its taxing authority to raise money from the project.

He questioned, however, Clark’s apparent hard line against the Alberta government and the oilpatch, in particular her veiled threat in Calgary last week to withhold electric power needed to operate the pipeline and Kitimat terminal in B.C.

“Those kind of things shouldn’t be said. You just don’t do that,” he said, adding that former premier Gordon Campbell spent years trying to build a close relationship between Alberta and B.C.

“This is kind of tearing it apart and I don’t think it’s good … I don’t know the reasoning behind that but if I’d been there (in the B.C. cabinet) it’s something I would have talked against.”

An Enbridge spokesman rejected Neufeld’s assertion that the company failed to adequately consult British Columbians and especially First Nations.

“Our work on Northern Gateway has included the most extensive consultation process ever undertaken for a Canadian pipeline project: over 2,500 meetings, 123 open houses, 150 presentations, and 64 workshops,” Todd Nogier said in an email interview.

“In total, we’ve consulted directly with more than 17,000 people. That far exceeds anything required by the regulator.”

Neufeld, 67, was former B.C. premier Gordon Campbell’s energy minister from 2001 until shortly after his appointment to the Senate in December 2008.

He has long called for a robust Canadian energy industry and for years promoted oil and gas exploration off the B.C. coast — an option Neufeld acknowledges isn’t viable due to political opposition combined with vast shale gas reserves that are now being exploited in B.C.

Neufeld said he instigated after his 2008 appointment a major Senate committee study, released this summer, that described Canada’s energy industry as “critical” to Canada’s well-being. Last week, he was elected chairman of the committee that produced that report, the Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources.

And he’ll go to the barricades to defend the Alberta and federal government position that the oilsands industry needs access to B.C.’s ports to diversify its markets away from the U.S., which is growing increasingly self-sufficient in oil and gas.

He said advances in tanker safety, combined with the importance of taxes from the energy industry to fund social programs, are compelling arguments to support pipeline construction.

“I have oil pipelines that I live beside (in Fort St. John), and who’s benefiting? Those in (Greater Vancouver) who want to drive their cars all the time. Or those on the coast those who want to do some fishing. How often have you seen them doing that with oars?”

But Neufeld said Enbridge didn’t adequately recognize that B.C. is far different from Alberta when it began consultations on its proposed 1,177-kilometre twin pipelines from the Edmonton area to Kitimat.

“I don’t think Enbridge first off understood where they were going with that pipeline,” he said, citing the pipeline’s route through the mountains and “pristine” forested areas, and over or under important salmon-bearing rivers and streams.

“In Alberta, it’s a little bit different to build a pipeline. In fact, a whole bunch different,” said Neufeld, who was born in Lethbridge.

“The whole province, they’ve got thousands and thousands of miles of pipeline. I doubt there’s anyone who’s born and raised in Alberta who hasn’t had an experience with a pipeline.

“It’s a little different when you head into northwestern British Columbia, which has only seen one pipeline,” he said, referring to what he called the relatively “small” Pacific Northern Gas Ltd. pipeline gas pipeline.

He said the company, which on its website under “Benefits for British Columbians” promises 3,000 construction jobs and 560 long-term jobs, isn’t being straight with the public.

“I’ve had briefings (with Enbridge), they talk about all the jobs and the economic activity in B.C. And I said, ‘Look, I’ve been in the oilpatch and the world long enough to know that that pipeline will be built in a hurry, and that means people come from all over the place. Don’t tell me all of those jobs will involves British Columbians. It just won’t happen.

“So let’s be honest with those numbers. Let’s tell the people what is truthful.”

He also said the company didn’t do enough to win support from British Columbians in remote regions along the route, and especially First Nations.

“They haven’t done their consultation correctly -- not that you can win over all the First Nations, I know that. But if you work with the ones that want to work and move forward, you can usually get somewhere with them.”

And he said the company raised many eyebrows in July when it announced $500 million in new safety measures after the release of a U.S. regulator’s devastating report on the 2010 Kalamazoo River pipeline rupture. Enbridge personnel, the U.S. Transportation Agency said, behaved like the Keystone Kops before, during and after the disaster.

“Where the hell did you start from in the first place? Did you start at the basement with the lowest safety factors, and then you can add another $500 million? Why didn’t you start there to start with, if that was the best, because that’s what people are demanding.”

Enbridge’s Nogier said the company has already proven it is listening to British Columbians, and said the commitment of up to $500 million in new safety measures should be viewed more positively.

“We felt we already had an industry-leading project in terms of safety and these enhancements were intended to make the project even safer,” he wrote.

“Northern Gateway is continually evolving, based on input from the communities and interested parties, and this announcement is an example of doing what we can to address concerns.”

He said First Nations and Metis groups will get almost $1 billion in total benefits over the life of the project, with roughly 60 per cent of the First Nations population along the Alberta-B.C. route having taken an equity stake in the pipeline.

[silver ghost]

I will be there providing training and support to those facing arrest.

Anyone else going to observe and/or participate?

[paddy]

And I am sure everyone attending will be driving a car to get to the protest.

[Matt]

And I am sure everyone attending will be driving a car to get to the protest.

You cynicism misses the mark entirely.  You're implying that this protest takes issue with oil as an energy source, but you'd be wrong. 

We oppose Enbridge building the Northern Gateway pipeline based on Enbridge's exceptionally sub-par safety record, the terrain/watersheds through which the pipeline is to be built and the condition of the passage to open ocean that exacerbates the risk of a tanker spill once it reaches the coastline. 

[paddy]

No Matt.  I didn't.  Enbridge does not have the best record.  I agree.  But since the Keystone XL pipeline is dead for now, where should we sell our oil? 

Have you lived in Kitimat?  I have spent some time there, and had family there once.  Imagine if we had tried to build Alcan now?  The Kemano power plant now?  Not a chance with today's bleeding hearts. 

I dont belive for a second that any executive of Enbridge wants an oil spill.  They have children too.  And just remember one thing, Enbridge is owned by shareholder, including pension funds. 

I am an oil and gas CEO, and damned if I dont do my best to make sure that we do the best not to impact the environment.  Today I fished the Cap after work.  We oil and gas people dont hate the environment.

My point here is that Canada needs the exports and the corresponding revenues.  So many people just jump on bandwagons and say NO.

ps I was fishing the Kane Valley a few weeks ago and drove across the Kinder Morgan pipeline.  Twinning that is not a big deal.  Nr is the increased shipping through our precious waters here in Vancouver.

[bcguy]

This issue is so wrong on so many levels.
The environmental concerns are very valid, and need to be addressed before any any thing else happens
The feds have done their best to gut the any protection with the omnibus bill (a whole other issue there)
There is absolutely no national energy plan in place or in the works.
We have not set out any sort of any domestic price protection, selling off our resources at rock bottom prices and taxing the cupcakes out of the population of Canada to re coupe revenue. Have a look at the price of gas in any other serious oil producing nation. There are no domestic ownership policies in place with some of the largest shares of the patch owned by anything other than Canadian interests and growing worse with every announcement.
The Canadian Foreign Investment Promotion and Protection Agreement (FIPA) has profound implications for Canadian labour law, environmental regulations and democratic standards. If enacted by Nov. 1, the trade promotion deal will give unprecedented powers to China's state owned enterprises (SOEs) that are now investing billions in Canada's natural resources. I could go on and on, but it sickens me to see our nations leaders turning into traitorous sellouts pushing unfettered and unregulated growth and pillaging our natural resources.
ENOUGH, it just angers me to see the EPIC mismanagement of some our most valuable resources. Raw logs...sure send them out...unrefined petroleum come and get it!! Mining...HELL bring in your own workers...come and get it!!!!Bring on the higher prices, the environmental disasters, and lower wages!!!

PROUD TO BE A CANADIAN TODAY!!!!
But that's just my opinion...

[paddy]

BC Guy -wanna know my biggest problem running an oil and gas company?  I cant find manpower.  Yet I see young people everyday in downtown Vancouver who would rather beg for money than put in a hard day's work.

Chinese ownership?  Blame the Union pensions who own the bigger oil and gas companies.

Damn! I hope I don't get skunked again on the Cap tomorrow.  I sure have way to much energy on my hands to be typing here!

[Matt]

No Matt.  I didn't.  Enbridge does not have the best record.  I agree.  But since the Keystone XL pipeline is dead for now, where should we sell our oil?  

Have you lived in Kitimat?  I have spent some time there, and had family there once.  Imagine if we had tried to build Alcan now?  The Kemano power plant now?  Not a chance with today's bleeding hearts.  

I dont belive for a second that any executive of Enbridge wants an oil spill.  They have children too.  And just remember one thing, Enbridge is owned by shareholder, including pension funds.  

I am an oil and gas CEO, and damned if I dont do my best to make sure that we do the best not to impact the environment.  Today I fished the Cap after work.  We oil and gas people dont hate the environment.

My point here is that Canada needs the exports and the corresponding revenues.  So many people just jump on bandwagons and say NO.

ps I was fishing the Kane Valley a few weeks ago and drove across the Kinder Morgan pipeline.  Twinning that is not a big deal.  Nr is the increased shipping through our precious waters here in Vancouver.

A Canadian Energy Research Institute report estimates BC would receive $9/person/year or $0.02 per day in revenue.  No rational mind can argue the price of two McDonalds cheese burgers per YEAR is sufficient to jeopardize our watersheds and coastline.

Here's why I got my numbers from http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/388039--bc-far-behind-ab-ont-in-enbridge-tax-revenue-report  We have to take this estimate to be true, as it also is stated on Enbridge's own pro-Northern Gateway website.

[adriaticum]

BC Guy -wanna know my biggest problem running an oil and gas company?  I cant find manpower.  Yet I see young people everyday in downtown Vancouver who would rather beg for money than put in a hard day's work.

Chinese ownership?  Blame the Union pensions who own the bigger oil and gas companies.

Damn! I hope I don't get skunked again on the Cap tomorrow.  I sure have way to much energy on my hands to be typing here!

I know your pain but to me the main problem is the dealing with spills. We all know that in the oil  & gas business spills are going to happen. It's like in the dairy business. Milk is going to be spilled somewhere.
Enbridge has a shitty record on oil spills. Yes it's true that Oil & Gas executives have childern and families. But anyone who doesn't live in the affected area doesn't really care as much what happens to the area. So I may say I love nature and care about the environment, but the deforestation of Haiti for example, doesn't affect me much.
They have cut all of their forest for coal and have nowhere to grow food and have wood for construction, or heating. They have ruined their environment because they didn't get it. Now they suffer and are poor. I am not going to waste my time telling them that they can't go on like that. They made their bed and will sleep in it.

What I would like to see from oil companies is documentation and demonstration that they can clean up the oil spills quickly and effectively.
I would like them to make a video and spill oil on an area and show how they clean it up. Lets see the recovery process and how long it takes for the area to fully recover.
Salmon are absolutely more vital to our environment than any other animal to most other environments. They bring food and are the engine of progress.
Damaging a salmon stream would take a lot more time to repair than other ocean fish.
The guys along other Enbridge pipelines would never agree to have it now that the oil has spilled. But now it's too late.
So PR campaigns, townhall meetings don't mean a thing.
Talk is cheap.

I am not against oil and gas exploration in general, I am just against this particular company in this particular area.
Also why can't we refine this oil for our consumption and reduce our dependence on foreign imports.
Because deals are in place that align pockets with money and are hard to break.

[Matt]

I dont belive for a second that any executive of Enbridge wants an oil spill.  They have children too.

When the BP oil rig spilled 4,900,000 barrels of oil into the Gulf, BP CEO Toney Hayward went yachting with his son.  

What happens to kids in Hartley Bay where the community lives off the sea and the entire culture is dependant on the health of the local environment?   I'm sure its as glaringly obvious to you as it is to me that children of Enbridge exec's are NOT a demographic that will suffer much from a spill, its equally obvious that children of coastal communities such as Hartley Bay will.

Tony Hayward goes yatching:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jun/19/bp-ceo-attends-yacht-race/?page=all

Hartley Bay:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartley_Bay,_British_Columbia

[ByteMe]

When the BP oil rig spilled 4,900,000 barrels of oil into the Gulf, BP CEO Toney Hayward went yachting with his son.  

What happens to kids in Hartley Bay where the community lives off the sea and the entire culture is dependant on the health of the local environment?  Its glaringly obvious that children of children of Enbridge exec's are a demographic that will suffer much from a spill, its equally obvious that children of coastal communities such as Hartley Bay will.

Tony Hayward goes yatching:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jun/19/bp-ceo-attends-yacht-race/?page=all

Hartley Bay:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartley_Bay,_British_Columbia

AMEN