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[bigblue]

The Wall Street Journal reported Tuesday that China is preparing to invest about $100 million in timber assets mainly on Vancouver Island.

The Journal said China’s government wealth fund, the China Investment Corp., is negotiating with Toronto-based Brookfield Asset Management for a 12.5 per cent stake in Island Timberlands, which owns about 254,000 hectares of forest land.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2012/11/06/china-investment-brookfield.html

Thoughts?

Wondering...
Nog

As someone who has worked in the financial industry a long time, and played the game from both the investment side and company side, I can say with confidence that a foreign financial investor holding a 12.5% stake is usually more worried about getting ripped off than trying to have any kind of meaningful influence on the company they invest in. I have seen many financial investors with 30~40% stake having little effective influence in companies they invest in and I doubt that this Chinese sovereign fund will be any different in this regard. Financial investors typically look to maximize returns over short to medium horizon and typically don't have the resources and will to be deeply involved in company operations. Due to their bureaucratic setup and government control, sovereign funds are more so than leading private equity funds and are even less effective in this regard.

[bcguy]

socially wrong but so right economically. If you work for a company, try convince your boss that he should pay higher wages when he can pay less on labour! This is the responsibility of our government if they wanted to discriminate against people who are actually willing to work a lumber job for lets just say 10 dollars an hour. Its actually a pretty common practice that farms in BC are hiring latin american workers to work their farms because no local would be willing to work a farm job for 10 dollars.

From the perspective of a business owner that wants to be competative in the global market, it's the fault of the locals who aren't willing to work for those dollars. Many of these labour jobs requires "basic" skill since the higher end jobs are not being threatened by immigrants. Personally I have hired local workers to do labour work as well as immigrants, I tend to find the locals more demanding for their pay, when they get their breaks, and just a tad lazy. The immigrants are usually just happy that they even got the job so they put in extra effort. The skill level of the local might be better but with proper coordination the work from an immigrant is equally as good. For example, there is a reason why most dry wall boarders (easy labour work)  are east indian and the finishers (requires some experience and skill) are usually local workers.

You are right..the labour workers coming from China cannot afford the soup, but a good 10 percent of China (upper class) which equals to around close to 100 million people can afford it. I guess it makes sense that some people are bitter than 10 percent are buying out all the land/resources while the other 90 percent are taking up all the jobs.

LOL you just worked your self full circle, its why the Chinese were brought in for the railroad
At best it can be described as maximizing a profit margin, and on the other end of the spectrum...its called exploitation
In our country..local market says you must pay x amount to perform a task or no one will do it, if someone brings you in to work below standards, for less money...again its called exploitation.
In the case of the local berry market, if you flood a market to the point you drive the market price down (basic supply and demand) and need to exploit imported labour to maintain any kind of a profit...who's fault is that? How many berry fields have popped up in the last 10 years?

"I have hired local workers to do labour work as well as immigrants, I tend to find the locals more demanding for their pay, when they get their breaks, and just a tad lazy. "

So what you mean is you pay minimum wage (or worse..piece work), then get upset when someone wants a break, and get their pay on time with out a hassle?
If you pay like crap, then you get workers who do the same, unless you exploit foreign workers who have an even lower standard of living, and have been treated like crap and exploited even worse in their own country, they are happy to be treated like half as much a person for less wage than the local market will bear in our country
What the true height of irony is that its not caucasions doing the exploiting this time around...So cheers LOL!!

[Ed]

LOL you just worked your self full circle, its why the Chinese were brought in for the railroad
At best it can be described as maximizing a profit margin, and on the other end of the spectrum...its called exploitation
In our country..local market says you must pay x amount to perform a task or no one will do it, if someone brings you in to work below standards, for less money...again its called exploitation.
In the case of the local berry market, if you flood a market to the point you drive the market price down (basic supply and demand) and need to exploit imported labour to maintain any kind of a profit...who's fault is that? How many berry fields have popped up in the last 10 years?

"I have hired local workers to do labour work as well as immigrants, I tend to find the locals more demanding for their pay, when they get their breaks, and just a tad lazy. "

So what you mean is you pay minimum wage (or worse..piece work), then get upset when someone wants a break, and get their pay on time with out a hassle?
If you pay like crap, then you get workers who do the same, unless you exploit foreign workers who have an even lower standard of living, and have been treated like crap and exploited even worse in their own country, they are happy to be treated like half as much a person for less wage than the local market will bear in our country
What the true height of irony is that its not caucasions doing the exploiting this time around...So cheers LOL!!

I'm not sure how you created a relationship between Chinese being brought in to build the rail road and them working the mining/lumber jobs in BC today.

1. Chinese that were brought in those days, were treated like slaves and was provided a bare minimium for the work that they were performing. Also safety for these workers were probably one of the lowest priorities for these companies. That is exploitation.
2. People brought in from Africa to do slave work in the Americas was also an example of exploitation.
3.  In Canada, there is no law that states that specific jobs will pay x amount to perform. There is however a minimum wage that prevents employers from paying an amount under that requirement.

In the case of the local berry market, where prices are pushed downward due to an increase in supply, that might not be the best for the local farmers but as a consumer i am not complaining about paying lower prices. Actually if you had any idea, these imported labours from South/Central America or Asia are not being exploited because they are still being paid according to our laws. Sounds to me like someone is bitter about more competition.

"So what you mean is you pay minimum wage (or worse..piece work), then get upset when someone wants a break, and get their pay on time with out a hassle?
If you pay like crap, then you get workers who do the same, unless you exploit foreign workers who have an even lower standard of living, and have been treated like crap and exploited even worse in their own country, they are happy to be treated like half as much a person for less wage than the local market will bear in our country
What the true height of irony is that its not caucasions doing the exploiting this time around...So cheers LOL!! "

Before you get too ahead of yourself with assumptions, I pay approx 50 dollars an hour to framers and close to 100 an hour for plumbing (unless offcoarse there is a set contract prior). So yes I do have a problem when people are being paid 50 dollars an hour and spend a part of that hour walking around smoking/chatting/or out for a walk. For the same job, I could hire a foreign worker that is willing to do it for 20 -25 dollars an hour, yet they will work harder and be a little more appreciative about getting the job. I'm sure not every "western" labourer are slackers but i've seen a lot. Just to point things out that there is no set price that says a framer has to be paid 50 dollars and a plumber has to be paid 100 dollars an hour.

"What the true height of irony is that its not hte caucasions doing the exploiting this time around... so cheers LOL!!"

Way to state the obvious.. I dont think you'd have 100 million dollars of cash to pay when you are being exploited?? But it's good that you find it funny because whether you like it or not China is going to buy the mines + lumber here and hire workers that are willing to work for 10 dollars an hour (minimum) wage!! I'm sure if local workers would work for that much they would be hired over the foreigners but it's too bad the locals are too spoiled by unions and other labour organizations and feel that they should get paid more. If your job was a garbage man, i would say your salary should be minimum wage but somehow City of Vancouver pays 20 dollars an hour for that job!   There is something in the indian culture called, Karma. I guess what comes around goes around!! You exploit others... and now you end up with no job! LOL!  

[pintoNL]

As an immigrant myself (excuse any language mistakes, I have only been in the country for 10 months) it is heartwarming to see that in general Canadians offer fair wages to anyone that wants to do the job.

When looking at what Ed is saying that it is okay that people are being brought in that are willing to work for the bare minimum, there is a certain point that economically makes sense. However it is unfair, and it doenst matter which way you put it, to let workers who have to live in in Canada and who have to build a future over here (lets say buy a home) compete with temp workers that are set to return to their home country. So yes by bringing temporary people in the country, they will do the work for less because after the work is done they go back to their third world country and live relatively well with the money they saved up. For a Canadian it doesn't work.. 

The second thing, and Im guessing Ed is more Chinese than Canadian, is the acceptance of 90% being poor and 10% percent being rich. This is also how China got big in the first place. By letting legions of people (children included) work in horrible circumstances to let a small percentage of the population get rich. Western countries refused to adopt this horrible way of dealing with its people, so the companies who don't care about human rights went to China to maximize profit.. 

This is exactly what developed countries are trying to avoid or reduce. Wealth for everyone without suffering or exploitation of a group of people (normally working class or immigrants) is the goal.

So yes, in the end if a country wants to buy up an industry and wants to reduce the standard of living for the locals due to unfair competition it is a bad cause and should be stopped..

Edd will probably disagree, but then again you cant really blame him

[Ed]

As an immigrant myself (excuse any language mistakes, I have only been in the country for 10 months) it is heartwarming to see that in general Canadians offer fair wages to anyone that wants to do the job.

When looking at what Ed is saying that it is okay that people are being brought in that are willing to work for the bare minimum, there is a certain point that economically makes sense. However it is unfair, and it doenst matter which way you put it, to let workers who have to live in in Canada and who have to build a future over here (lets say buy a home) compete with temp workers that are set to return to their home country. So yes by bringing temporary people in the country, they will do the work for less because after the work is done they go back to their third world country and live relatively well with the money they saved up. For a Canadian it doesn't work..  

The second thing, and Im guessing Ed is more Chinese than Canadian, is the acceptance of 90% being poor and 10% percent being rich. This is also how China got big in the first place. By letting legions of people (children included) work in horrible circumstances to let a small percentage of the population get rich. Western countries refused to adopt this horrible way of dealing with its people, so the companies who don't care about human rights went to China to maximize profit..  

This is exactly what developed countries are trying to avoid or reduce. Wealth for everyone without suffering or exploitation of a group of people (normally working class or immigrants) is the goal.

So yes, in the end if a country wants to buy up an industry and wants to reduce the standard of living for the locals due to unfair competition it is a bad cause and should be stopped..

Edd will probably disagree, but then again you cant really blame him

I agree with you that China's economy developed due to the "cheap" labour that is available there. It is also because of the simple rules of supply and demand. In a country where there is no minimum wage, there are so many workers available to work at a much lower rate. Often you would see 4-5 sales person working at a store in Chin vs 1-2 people working at a store in Canada with a higher wage but since companies have to pay minimum wage they hire less to cut costs. With China having 1.3 billiong people it is a little tougher to manage than Canada with approx 30 million people. If China implimented a minimum wage, there will be a drastic shift in available jobs because companies want to stay competative. I'm pretty sure a job is better than no job. Nobody in this world is perfect and that applies to the government as well. China is plagued with overpopulation but compared to countries like India where there 29.8 % living below the poverty line and with about a literacy rate of 61% (CIA World Factbook), China isn't too bad with a 92.2 percent literacy rate and 13.4 percent below the poverty line. I compare the two countries because Peoples Republic of China was created in 1949 and India got their independence around 1947 or so.

Developed countries avoid or reduce the exploitation of a group of people because they have already done their share of exploitatoins to get to where they are today. Europe strived during the colonization period where they pretty much looted the valuables from other countries (check out the British Museum) as well as exploiting other countries (trading opium to China, British East India Company, and etc). Now that they need to rely on themselves, look at the European economy now, Greece, Italy, Spain, and etc are some of the countries that are being bailed out or about to go bankrupt. In the USA (another developed country), they shipped slaves in from Africa to do all the hard work paying them barely anything. Even after slavery was ended, i'm sure African Americans were not being paid the same salary for the same job compared to a caucasian. Canada was a little less involved in the slave trade but Chinese people were sent here to help build the rail roads at a bare minimal and were treated like slaves.

Secondly, you guessed wrong I've been in Canada for over 20+ years and is a Canadian citizen but with Chinese decent. Even though I grew up here, i maintained my chinese values over the years that it is important to work hard. My family did not immigrate to Canada expecting a free ride. With most people working 8-10 hour shifts a day, we worked 12-16 hours a day to make up for the language barrier we had when we first immigrated. But hey! it was definetly worth it considering the lifestyle i am living today! As a general contractor, I hire people based on the amount of skill they provide to the job. I pay labourers that clean up and pick up garbage 16-20 dollars an hour as compared to a framer 50 dollars an hour. If I really looked hard i'm sure I could get someone to pick up the garbage for 10 dollars an hour but I like to have loyalty to my guys. The point is, if you go to school and get more skills, you are worth 50 dollars an hour. Coming to Canada isn't an excuse for people to become lazy and end up collecting money from the government. There are far too many people that come to Canada with the mindset of having a easier life, as well as people illegally immigrating here with fake statuses. Therefore if you lived in Canada over the years and now have to compete against workers that barely had any education for low skill jobs, then honestly it was your own fault that you didn't take advantage of being a Canadian. Trust me, immigrant workers from third world countries probably had a tougher life than people living in Canada (not everybody gets to go to school in third world countries vs Canadians). If you just came here as an immigrant, instead of feeling bitter about other immigrants getting work at a minimum wage, you should feel grateful to be in this country period!

[bcguy]

I agree with you that China's economy developed due to the "cheap" labour that is available there. It is also because of the simple rules of supply and demand. In a country where there is no minimum wage, there are so many workers available to work at a much lower rate. Often you would see 4-5 sales person working at a store in Chin vs 1-2 people working at a store in Canada with a higher wage but since companies have to pay minimum wage they hire less to cut costs. With China having 1.3 billiong people it is a little tougher to manage than Canada with approx 30 million people. If China implimented a minimum wage, there will be a drastic shift in available jobs because companies want to stay competative. I'm pretty sure a job is better than no job. Nobody in this world is perfect and that applies to the government as well. China is plagued with overpopulation but compared to countries like India where there 29.8 % living below the poverty line and with about a literacy rate of 61% (CIA World Factbook), China isn't too bad with a 92.2 percent literacy rate and 13.4 percent below the poverty line. I compare the two countries because Peoples Republic of China was created in 1949 and India got their independence around 1947 or so.

Developed countries avoid or reduce the exploitation of a group of people because they have already done their share of exploitatoins to get to where they are today. Europe strived during the colonization period where they pretty much looted the valuables from other countries (check out the British Museum) as well as exploiting other countries (trading opium to China, British East India Company, and etc). Now that they need to rely on themselves, look at the European economy now, Greece, Italy, Spain, and etc are some of the countries that are being bailed out or about to go bankrupt. In the USA (another developed country), they shipped slaves in from Africa to do all the hard work paying them barely anything. Even after slavery was ended, i'm sure African Americans were not being paid the same salary for the same job compared to a caucasian. Canada was a little less involved in the slave trade but Chinese people were sent here to help build the rail roads at a bare minimal and were treated like slaves.

Secondly, you guessed wrong I've been in Canada for over 20+ years and is a Canadian citizen but with Chinese decent. Even though I grew up here, i maintained my chinese values over the years that it is important to work hard. My family did not immigrate to Canada expecting a free ride. With most people working 8-10 hour shifts a day, we worked 12-16 hours a day to make up for the language barrier we had when we first immigrated. But hey! it was definetly worth it considering the lifestyle i am living today! As a general contractor, I hire people based on the amount of skill they provide to the job. I pay labourers that clean up and pick up garbage 16-20 dollars an hour as compared to a framer 50 dollars an hour. If I really looked hard i'm sure I could get someone to pick up the garbage for 10 dollars an hour but I like to have loyalty to my guys. The point is, if you go to school and get more skills, you are worth 50 dollars an hour. Coming to Canada isn't an excuse for people to become lazy and end up collecting money from the government. There are far too many people that come to Canada with the mindset of having a easier life, as well as people illegally immigrating here with fake statuses. Therefore if you lived in Canada over the years and now have to compete against workers that barely had any education for low skill jobs, then honestly it was your own fault that you didn't take advantage of being a Canadian. Trust me, immigrant workers from third world countries probably had a tougher life than people living in Canada (not everybody gets to go to school in third world countries vs Canadians). If you just came here as an immigrant, instead of feeling bitter about other immigrants getting work at a minimum wage, you should feel grateful to be in this country period!

"If China implemented a minimum wage, there will be a drastic shift in available jobs because companies want to stay competitive". - No its called exploitation, pure and simple,
and theres nothing worse than your own country exploiting you.
If China was made to operate as the rest of the free world, they would release their dollar, instead of under valuing and peggin it to the US dollar it to maintain an artificial value, and drive their economy artificially high
If they allowed their currency to be bought and sold like the rest of the world then we would really see a free market. But there is no push from the IMF to see this through because so many people are raping this countries resources (read labour) that there is no push to see this through, and so the Chinese people continue to suffer, treated like slaves in their own country .
I truly believe if a Canadian company wants to import goods from another nation, that that all Canadian rules as far as human/workers rights, environmental standards, and wages, health and safety should be the same as what is required as Canadian standards.


"I pay approx 50 dollars an hour to framers and plumbers close to 100 an hour " Uhhuh, I think what you mean to say is you pay a subtrade company to supply this skilled labour.
If I take my car to a mechanic, yes the charge out rate is 100 bux/ hr, but I guarantee thats not what the mechanic makes.
I know of know of no framer making 50.00/hr, so stop telling half truths.
The beef here is a miner IS a skilled position, so bringing in cut rate slave labour to enhance your profit margin, all the while utilizing our healthcare and WCB benefits is just wrong, why do you think there is such a back lash, I am not alone in my thinking.

Stop raw log exportation, and the exportation of all non-value added resources and the undercutting of skilled labour wages, there is no excuse for this current round of exploitation.

[skaha]

-- "I truly believe if a Canadian company wants to import goods from another nation, that that all Canadian rules as far as human/workers rights, environmental standards, and wages, health and safety should be the same as what is required as Canadian standards."

--That's just what China is asking for in the free trade agreement they just cant trust Canada labour laws or left leaning unions.... they have such a good system in China they want to ensure their workers are treated the same way in Canada... ie same wages and benefits they would get in China and nothing less for all products being shipped to China. 

[Ed]

"If China implemented a minimum wage, there will be a drastic shift in available jobs because companies want to stay competitive". - No its called exploitation, pure and simple,
and theres nothing worse than your own country exploiting you.
If China was made to operate as the rest of the free world, they would release their dollar, instead of under valuing and peggin it to the US dollar it to maintain an artificial value, and drive their economy artificially high
If they allowed their currency to be bought and sold like the rest of the world then we would really see a free market. But there is no push from the IMF to see this through because so many people are raping this countries resources (read labour) that there is no push to see this through, and so the Chinese people continue to suffer, treated like slaves in their own country .
I truly believe if a Canadian company wants to import goods from another nation, that that all Canadian rules as far as human/workers rights, environmental standards, and wages, health and safety should be the same as what is required as Canadian standards.


"I pay approx 50 dollars an hour to framers and plumbers close to 100 an hour " Uhhuh, I think what you mean to say is you pay a subtrade company to supply this skilled labour.
If I take my car to a mechanic, yes the charge out rate is 100 bux/ hr, but I guarantee thats not what the mechanic makes.
I know of know of no framer making 50.00/hr, so stop telling half truths.
The beef here is a miner IS a skilled position, so bringing in cut rate slave labour to enhance your profit margin, all the while utilizing our healthcare and WCB benefits is just wrong, why do you think there is such a back lash, I am not alone in my thinking.

Stop raw log exportation, and the exportation of all non-value added resources and the undercutting of skilled labour wages, there is no excuse for this current round of exploitation.

I dont think China pegging the dollar was to lower its value vs the US dollar. Any introductory Economics course would explain that lower currency value = higher exports. If the Chinese dollar was worth more it would be more expensive for countries to trade with them and hurt their trade. Also why should they operate like the rest of the world? It is pretty clear the country that has the "power" makes the rules because nobody is forcing anybody to trade with China. Actually if it was free market in Canada, then technically there should be little or no government interventions when China makes a bid on a piece of land or resources.

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/freemarket.asp#axzz2D1ILLate

It's true that a lot of people are suffering in China still but at least things are improving. Having such a high population has it's pros and cons but at least with a growing economy the opportunities are out there. Its not exploitations when you have only n amount of jobs and there are close to 800,000,000 people available to work. Canada can't even provide everybody a job with a 30 million total population.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2095rank.html?countryName=China&countryCode=ch&regionCode=eas&rank=1#ch

Percentage wise there are a lot more poor people than the rich but 10 percent (upper class) of China  is over 100,000,000 people. This is why a good portion of the high end real estate in Vancouver is owned by new chinese immigrants. It's hard to be judgemental towards the Chinese government's method on how to govern a country when our government isn't the best either. Last time i checked China is one of the 5 perminent countries on the UN security council while we didn't even make the cut.

http://dougsaunders.net/2010/10/canada-united-nations-security-council-harper/


I'm not sure where you live but framers in the lower mainland Vancouver, Richmond, West Vancouver, North Vancouver, and etc charge $50 dollars an hour. If you work under someone then obviously that person would make a portion of the 50. Also framers in "bigger" cities tend to build more complicated houses which requires skills that cannot be replaced with cheaper chinese labour. Bow windows, barrelled ceilings, hand-cut roofs are all details that again require skills/experience. This is mainly because most of the housing in China are formed with concrete and not wood frame so they aren't as familiar.
  Mining is labour intensive job and requires experience, it is not considered a "skilled position" as to a Geotech Engineer or a doctor. Most people that get doctor degrees in Asia are not even recognoized in Canada. This applies to engineering as well. Mining jobs are accepted from other countries and in the case of mining there are some workers (China) that are more experienced and qualified that are willing to work for less than the Canadian counter part. Even with the backlashes like the shark fin cause, it wont be doing much.....

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1291856--b-c-court-says-unions-can-see-work-permits-for-chinese-miners

Actually what you truly believe in is the exact opposite of what is actually happening. China is the top exporting country and makes a good portion of all the goods in the world, do you honestly think Canada can impose "regulations" on country they import from???     China on the other hand has the power to make rules to make sure they get what they want.....this isnt the mid 1950s anymore....

[alwaysfishn]

"If China implemented a minimum wage, there will be a drastic shift in available jobs because companies want to stay competitive". - No its called exploitation, pure and simple,
and theres nothing worse than your own country exploiting you.
If China was made to operate as the rest of the free world, they would release their dollar, instead of under valuing and peggin it to the US dollar it to maintain an artificial value, and drive their economy artificially high
If they allowed their currency to be bought and sold like the rest of the world then we would really see a free market. But there is no push from the IMF to see this through because so many people are raping this countries resources (read labour) that there is no push to see this through, and so the Chinese people continue to suffer, treated like slaves in their own country .
I truly believe if a Canadian company wants to import goods from another nation, that that all Canadian rules as far as human/workers rights, environmental standards, and wages, health and safety should be the same as what is required as Canadian standards.


"I pay approx 50 dollars an hour to framers and plumbers close to 100 an hour " Uhhuh, I think what you mean to say is you pay a subtrade company to supply this skilled labour.
If I take my car to a mechanic, yes the charge out rate is 100 bux/ hr, but I guarantee thats not what the mechanic makes.
I know of know of no framer making 50.00/hr, so stop telling half truths.
The beef here is a miner IS a skilled position, so bringing in cut rate slave labour to enhance your profit margin, all the while utilizing our healthcare and WCB benefits is just wrong, why do you think there is such a back lash, I am not alone in my thinking.

Stop raw log exportation, and the exportation of all non-value added resources and the undercutting of skilled labour wages, there is no excuse for this current round of exploitation.

Every country has what you suggest is "exploitation". This happens because there are more workers than there are jobs so the power is with the employer. Even in North America there are levels of "exploitation" in the market place when the unemployment rate drops to below 5%.

Imagine what would happen with the oil workers in Alberta if the price of oil dropped dramatically and much of the industry shut down. You would have people who had been earning $40/hour happy to earn $10 an hour just to have an income. On a different level is exactly what is happening in China. Their economy is growing however there are so many people that are looking for better paying jobs and are thrilled to be making $10 per day rather than the $1 per day they normally may be earning.

I also don't think you are recognizing the relevance of a wage in China compared to their cost of living. Rather than looking at what they earn per hour you need to look at the purchasing power of their dollar versus ours.

[Ed]

Every country has what you suggest is "exploitation". This happens because there are more workers than there are jobs so the power is with the employer. Even in North America there are levels of "exploitation" in the market place when the unemployment rate drops to below 5%.

Imagine what would happen with the oil workers in Alberta if the price of oil dropped dramatically and much of the industry shut down. You would have people who had been earning $40/hour happy to earn $10 an hour just to have an income. On a different level is exactly what is happening in China. Their economy is growing however there are so many people that are looking for better paying jobs and are thrilled to be making $10 per day rather than the $1 per day they normally may be earning.

I also don't think you are recognizing the relevance of a wage in China compared to their cost of living. Rather than looking at what they earn per hour you need to look at the purchasing power of their dollar versus ours.

Totally agree that you need to take a look at the purchasing power of their dollar. In China you can get a meal for under a dollar Canadian, where as in Canada if you want to get fast food it will cost almost 10 dollars for a combo. Making 10 dollar a day is a little extreme, but i'm sure when the miners come to Canada, the minimum wage willl still be in place. I dont think any miners in China will be making close to $60 RMB an hour + a much safer working environment in Canada. For these workers they will actually be happy to have a job where as a lot of the current oil rig/mining workers are often depressed in those working conditions and end up using drugs.

[StillAqua]

I dont think any miners in China will be making close to $60 RMB an hour + a much safer working environment in Canada. For these workers they will actually be happy to have a job where as a lot of the current oil rig/mining workers are often depressed in those working conditions and end up using drugs.

That's very insulting to Canadian oil and mining workers and Canadians in general. Any time you put a large bunch of men together in one place with money and time on their hands, there will be drug and alcohol use (even turn of the century Chinese railway gangs and their opium). But to characterize Canadian workers as depressed drug users compared to "grateful" foreign Chinese workers taking their jobs is beyond ridiculous.

[alwaysfishn]

That's very insulting to Canadian oil and mining workers and Canadians in general. Any time you put a large bunch of men together in one place with money and time on their hands, there will be drug and alcohol use (even turn of the century Chinese railway gangs and their opium). But to characterize Canadian workers as depressed drug users compared to "grateful" foreign Chinese workers taking their jobs is beyond ridiculous.

But you have to admit that it does happen, even if it is only on a small scale.

[Ed]

That's very insulting to Canadian oil and mining workers and Canadians in general. Any time you put a large bunch of men together in one place with money and time on their hands, there will be drug and alcohol use (even turn of the century Chinese railway gangs and their opium). But to characterize Canadian workers as depressed drug users compared to "grateful" foreign Chinese workers taking their jobs is beyond ridiculous.

Speaking of opium, China should thank the British for the fair trade they provided by giving China opium for silk, resources, and etc. I wonder what would happen today if Afghanistan was trading opium to Canada for lumber. It's very insulting to Canadian oil and mine workers but sadly its the truth. Im sure there are people who aren't abusing drugs and alcohol but it's a fact that a good portion do. I'm sure if those miners/oil rig workers are making 10 dollars an hour like the Chinese miners, there wont be extra cash on their hands to spend on drugs. Problem solved!

Also it is not true that if you place a bunch of men together with money and time on their hands there will be drugs and alcohol use. There are many cases where a bunch of men can just work with the main goal of supporting their family. Drugs/alcohol use are often connected to bad husbands/fathers. In the chinese railway worker's case, opium was often provided as a way of payment for their labour. That is an example of what you call "exploitation". Getting workers hooked on drugs and using the drug as a method to keep them working.

 Ask any Canadian if they would be happy to work in Northern BC and make $10 dollars an hour, then go ask a immigrant Chinese miner how they feel about making $10 dollars an hour. These miners from China are grateful that Canada is allowing them an opportunity to work here because the conditions here are a lot better than in China. Therefore it is not very ridiculous.

[brownmancheng]

Speaking of opium, China should thank the British for the fair trade they provided by giving China opium for silk, resources, and etc. I wonder what would happen today if Afghanistan was trading opium to Canada for lumber. It's very insulting to Canadian oil and mine workers but sadly its the truth. Im sure there are people who aren't abusing drugs and alcohol but it's a fact that a good portion do. I'm sure if those miners/oil rig workers are making 10 dollars an hour like the Chinese miners, there wont be extra cash on their hands to spend on drugs. Problem solved!

Also it is not true that if you place a bunch of men together with money and time on their hands there will be drugs and alcohol use. There are many cases where a bunch of men can just work with the main goal of supporting their family. Drugs/alcohol use are often connected to bad husbands/fathers. In the chinese railway worker's case, opium was often provided as a way of payment for their labour. That is an example of what you call "exploitation". Getting workers hooked on drugs and using the drug as a method to keep them working.

 Ask any Canadian if they would be happy to work in Northern BC and make $10 dollars an hour, then go ask a immigrant Chinese miner how they feel about making $10 dollars an hour. These miners from China are grateful that Canada is allowing them an opportunity to work here because the conditions here are a lot better than in China. Therefore it is not very ridiculous.

Ed, what do you do for a living?
Because there are drug users in every group/industry be it labour financial or anything even immigrants.
Your comments are not only presumptuous, they are offensive. Please stop generalizing any group (ethnic, class, etc)
If you knew what it means to be a true Canadian you would understand this is the reason many "Chinese minerS" or any other immigrants come to Canada. To not be judged by there class or ethnic backgrounds.

Here, in Canada everybody is set as equal under the law.

And just so we are clear, immigrants are paid the same in the oil Nd gas industry as Canadians. 

[StillAqua]

In the chinese railway worker's case, opium was often provided as a way of payment for their labour. That is an example of what you call "exploitation". Getting workers hooked on drugs and using the drug as a method to keep them working.

Actually, it was the local Chinese who imported the raw opium for processing in their opium factories here in BC that supplied the opium to the parlors, the community and the railway crews. It's well documented because it was legal and they paid licence fees to the BC government. The Chinese have never had a problem exploiting their own citizens and apparently they still don't.