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[chris gadsden]

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/metro/urged+renew+leases+open+salmon+farms/7547659/story.html

[adriaticum]

I always wondered why those who need farmed salmon don't raise it themselves.
In BC we don't really need farmed salmon. Most of farmed raised stuff is exported anyway.
So those who need it should raise it.
It's baffling

[Dave]

I always wondered why those who need farmed salmon don't raise it themselves.
In BC we don't really need farmed salmon. Most of farmed raised stuff is exported anyway.
So those who need it should raise it.
It's baffling

Say what?  Do you mean like having chickens in the back yard??  Hey, there might be a market here, perhaps Canadian Tire will start selling back yard salmon rearing pens ...

Glad your'e back Chris, I missed posts like this.

[aquapaloosa]

I have a headache.  Does anyone have a recipe for ibuprofen so i can make some at home now.  I need it.
Also I am wondering if anyone has an extra turkey i could have for xmas dinner since mine died yesterday.  The neighbors cat got it.  Dang!!

[adriaticum]

Say what?  Do you mean like having chickens in the back yard??  Hey, there might be a market here, perhaps Canadian Tire will start selling back yard salmon rearing pens ...

Glad your'e back Chris, I missed posts like this.

No Dave.
I mean that British Columbian's have more than enough wild salmon to sustain them and supply the demand.
Majority of the wild salmon farming is done by foreign companies for export to foreign countries.
Sure we do have some in stores but we don't really need it.

It's more like me coming to your house to take a piss because I don't want to clean up mine.
Some probably wouldn't mind that because it creates jobs.

I think New Foundland would probably need those jobs more.

[aquapaloosa]

I always wondered why those who need farmed salmon don't raise it themselves.
In BC we don't really need farmed salmon. Most of farmed raised stuff is exported anyway.
So those who need it should raise it.
It's baffling

I can honestly say that over the years on these threads this is one of the most ridiculous posts I have seen. 

Having said that I am considering growing my own cycle of talapia in my yard this summer just to take a poke at the suggestion above.

[EZ_Rolling]

Actually the post makes sence ...growing fish we don't need is unnecessary

Good luck on the talapia

[aquapaloosa]

Good luck on the salmon growing in your  place!

[Dave]

No Dave.
I mean that British Columbian's have more than enough wild salmon to sustain them and supply the demand.

Sure we do   Which wild stocks do you suggest we harvest to meet this demand?  Lets say a consumer wants a fresh salmon for a family gathering tomorrow or next week or next month or even 5 months from now.  Which wild stock should be harvested so this consumer can have his salmon dinner ? Where will he purchase this salmon?

Short of denying consumers fresh fish, salmon farming is the only viable method of suppling this demand.  Get your head around it.

[troutbreath]

I can honestly say that over the years on these threads this is one of the most ridiculous posts I have seen. 

Having said that I am considering growing my own cycle of talapia in my yard this summer just to take a poke at the suggestion above.

Actually you just posted the most ridiculous comeback, to a very concise statement about why we need raise those dirty fish here. It's not like they haven't caused more problems than raising some chickens. Well if you end up with some bird flu maybe not. Maybe your onto something with the talapia in the back yard. You got my OK. Change is good.

[adriaticum]

Sure we do  Which wild stocks do you suggest we harvest to meet this demand?  Lets say a consumer wants a fresh salmon for a family gathering tomorrow or next week or next month or even 5 months from now.  Which wild stock should be harvested so this consumer can have his salmon dinner ? Where will he purchase this salmon?

Short of denying consumers fresh fish, salmon farming is the only viable method of suppling this demand.  Get your head around it.

Dave, I am not against salmon farming.
This is a ridiculous argument.
Most people eat previously frozen fish. Those who want the fresh fish, go and catch it.
In order to supply the demand, you have commercial fisheries which catch fish in nets.
Then they freeze it. Then they ship it to Safeway. Then you go to Safeway and buy the fish frozen.
We have among the largest salmon rivers in the world. Fraser, Skeena and Nass alone can surely supply this demand.

I am just saying that those who need the salmon and don't have it, should take on the fish farming. We don't need it in BC we have all the salmon we can eat.
Japan is one of the largest consumers of fish, lots go to the US too. Why don't they take these companies and invite them to put nets in waters around Japan and raise atlantic salmon. They already do have farmed tuna on large scale.

The only reason we have these salmon farms is because somebody, somewhere sold the idea and paid someone in government to sell the idea to us as an economic benefit.
The few thousand jobs gained in the fish farming industry were taken from the fishing industry.

It's not like I don't appreciate farming. It's just if you have millions of wild chickens running in the forest, why do you need to farm it if it ruins the soil around the farm.
Let those who need it, do it.

aquapaloosa, I'm not talking about individual economics here.
If you have a headache kick yourself in the keister, you will forget about the headache fast    


To summerize,
nobody wants to crap in their own back yard because it stinks.
It's easier to do it in someone else's.

[Dave]

So, was there a fish farm tenure protest staged today at CC`s office?  Kinda thought I would see Chris and af in the crowd on the 6 o'clock Global news ...but no such luck.   Was this latest media event staged by Ms. Morton, ughhhm, well, you know ... ignored by the media???   
Surely someone covered it?

[Dave]

.
We have among the largest salmon rivers in the world. Fraser, Skeena and Nass alone can surely supply this demand.

No.   To meet todays demand for salmon would mean fishing those stocks to extinction.

[shuswapsteve]

Farmed salmon has grown to dominate British Columbia’s provincial salmon harvest. From 2005 to 2009, the landed value of farmed salmon in British Columbia ranged from about $320 million to $410 million annually. In comparison, over the same period, the landed value of all wild salmon (including sockeye) ranged from about $20 million to $60 million annually. In 2010, however, the landed value of sockeye alone was $91.3 million. Reports on the number of jobs associated with the BC finfish aquaculture industry vary, depending on whether the jobs counted are direct or indirect, part-time or full-time, or year-round or seasonal. A 2009 PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP report prepared for the province found that salmon farming in British Columbia provides an estimated 6,000 direct and indirect jobs.  In 2010, DFO released a study entitled Socio-Economic Impact of Aquaculture in Canada, which reported similar numbers. It indicated that, in 2007, the aquaculture industry generated about 6,000 full-time-equivalent (FTE) jobs in British Columbia, which included 2,220 FTEs in direct activities, 2,330 FTEs in indirect jobs, and 1,410 FTEs in induced activities, totaling $223.3 million in labour income. – quote from Justice Bruce Cohen’s Final Report: The Uncertain Future of Fraser River Sockeye, Volume 1, Chapter 8, Salmon Farm Management, page 378.

Most of what is produced here is exported to markets like the US.  It is also true that countries like the US and Japan are involved in aquaculture (more than just finfish) which grows every year.  In fact, the US wants to get even more involved in aquaculture (well…salmon ranching actually is already, but we just like turn our backs and plug our ears and think they are wild fish).  However, just because the people of this province might not need it in the quantities being produced or someone else wants it more does not necessarily mean that there is not a reason to raise it here and export it or that there are not people here that depend on the economic benefits of those exports.  Aquaculture is BC’s largest agricultural export and likely the most regulated.  This province, this country exports many things and those exports support employment here whether you agree with a certain industry or not.  Many communities on Vancouver Island once depended on the forest industry for economic benefit; however, those dollars have quickly dried up and many have turned to other industries like aquaculture.  

I mean that British Columbian's have more than enough wild salmon to sustain them and supply the demand.

Really?  Other than a few CUs (Conservation Units), the majority of Fraser River Sockeye are in the red zone.  Some we know very little about (i.e. Taseko) due to limitations in enumeration methods.  Ask a commercial fisherman here how busy he/she has been in the last 10 years.  2010 was an exceptional year for them in regards to Sockeye, but other than that it has been pretty lean.  I am not exactly sure if things are that much better in Alaska in regards to actual wild fish harvest.  In Alaska in 2010, of the 158 million salmon that were commercially harvested, 77 million were identified as ocean ranched if you look at Alaska Department of Fish and Game website.  Luckily, Fraser Sockeye has a very rich data set when compared to other Pacific Salmon species.  Unfortunately, species such as Chinook and Coho are in much worse shape having even more data gaps.  So much so that Cohen even recommended that funding be allocated for other salmon species that share the Fraser with Sockeye.

If you look at research from Dr. Peterman and Dr. Dorner (mentioned in the Cohen Final Report) you will see that most Fraser River, non-Fraser River Sockeye stocks in Canada and the US have shown a decrease in productivity – starting in the late 80s.  Additionally, if you read Cohen’s findings you will notice that we need to do a better job at assessing Fraser River Sockeye outmigrants.  There are obvious gaps in our knowledge on mortality rates during downstream migration.  Other than Chilko and Cultus we do not know much about the health status of many Fraser Sockeye in their nursery lakes.  The department used to do many more lake stock assessments, but that has fallen off the table over the years.  Cohen recognized this and made a recommendation calling for a doubling of these assessments including annual monitoring programs to estimate fall fry populations.  Given this and the status of many Fraser Sockeye CUs, I am not sure how you can say that we have more than enough wild salmon to sustain us and supply demand.  I argue that our mixed-stock fishery mentality does not compliment sustainable commercial fisheries very well – not just here but also other places in the world.  If someone wants to go fishing and catch their own fish and not eat farmed fish or grow them in their own yard then that’s fine also.

[adriaticum]

shuswapsteve,
Yes indeed.
Our population is only 4.5 million people in BC and there is enough wild salmon to keep us happy for a long time.
The problem is well, we can't support our Facebook friends, and friends of our friends. And friends of their friends.
Yes, sure, the farmed salmon is the majority of consumed salmon today. But if we were more careful 100 years ago we wouldn't have raped this resource and we would have an abundance of fish in every river.

Granted, global warming does have an effect on overall ocean productivity and survival.

The lumber industry didn't dry up.
It was moved when collapse became inevitable. It was butchered because someone saw and thought that we could supply the whole world with lumber.
So we raped and pillaged our resources and didn't give a rat's a.s about the future.

The lumber industry didn't collapse because suddenly the trees couldn't grow anymore. Or we ran out of soil.
It collapsed because we over-harversted and then some companies moved to where the labour is cheaper.
Same jazz happened with the cod fishery in New Foundland. I mean, have we not learned anything from this?!
I guess not.

I am not saying we can supply the World demand for salmon but
if Americans and Japanese need the fish, let them raise it.
Japan is 12 times the size of Vancouver Island and 170 times the population. They have a huge demand.

Like I said.
Read my summary bit...