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[alwaysfishn]

I will consider this when you can provide just one specific example in BC of a stock/species/run/year that has seen the declines such as those I identify above, in which the causatory agent can be directly identified as aquaculture. Just one example, that's it. Should be easy enough, hey?

Perhaps you could use your connections to get the feedlots to release their disease records so they could be correlated with historical return records. While the circumstantial evidence showing that sea lice and disease amplification is part of the feedlot effect, (which is the reason why we oppose feedlots) providing you with statistical science is a little difficult.

[dnibbles]

Perhaps you could use your connections to get the feedlots to release their disease records so they could be correlated with historical return records. While the circumstantial evidence showing that sea lice and disease amplification is part of the feedlot effect, (which is the reason why we oppose feedlots) providing you with statistical science is a little difficult.

Sorry, even if I had connection in the feedlot business (which I don') I wouldn't be making your argument by doing your research for you.

 I take that as a no, you can't provide an example. Ok, good discussion, I'm out.

[blaydRnr]

Ok, this is getting a little bit non-sensical on both sides. Harvest levels are definitely not set based on "guess work".
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/mplans/2012/smon/smon-sc-cs-2012-eng.pdf

UNfortunately, salmon are tough to accurately count when they're swimming in the ocean, so "mis calculation" as you call it does occur. If it occurs in the wrong direction and harvest rates weren't conservative enough, you end up with over harvest (i.e. higher than intended). In a productive freshwater and marine environment this may not be a problem; when it's not, you can get collapses.

High exploitation rates are not the only thing that have been proven to cause declines in abundance. Impacts on freshwater habitat, increasing water temperatures, hydroelectricity projects have also been shown to directly impact salmon stocks. Aquaculture has been suspected of causing serious harm, but not proven yet (as per Cohen).

fair enough..."guess work" seems a bit derogatory as a description...it was an attempt to describe statistically the discrepancy of fish counting and it's correlation to harvest forecasting.

it's also true there are many other factors that affect the migratory cycle of salmon, habitat destruction being a great example as you pointed out that would be more viable as a platform of protest.

[blaydRnr]

Perhaps you could use your connections to get the feedlots to release their disease records so they could be correlated with historical return records. While the circumstantial evidence showing that sea lice and disease amplification is part of the feedlot effect, (which is the reason why we oppose feedlots) providing you with statistical science is a little difficult.

with all do respect, every sample specimen that were presented by the anti feedlot protesters were specifically hand picked...unless i missed something, i don't recall them ever doing a random selection of items collected from any given source other than what they were specifically looking for.

for their case studies, i would ask:

how many sources? how many tainted samples per unit of numbered specimen? how random were the studies? what were their true percentage points based on source location? dates? point of origin?...etc.

how can you constantly ask for specific examples when you yourself can only come up with so called 'circumstantial evidence'?... that's hardly enough basis to take such a hard stance on something that has not been proven or unproven...seems you're equally convinced on your views/beliefs as a result of media mongering and the effects of fear propaganda.

[aquapaloosa]

Like I have always said "hand picked seines and hand pick data".

[chris gadsden]

Like I have always said "hand picked seines and hand pick data".

A number of you post how great the industry is but how do you explain things like this? Does not seem to great to me.



Gill disease to cost salmon farmers £30mSteven Vass
Deputy Business Editor, Sunday Herald.Saturday 19 January 2013 GRIEG Seafood, one of Scotland's big five salmon farmers, has lost one-third of its latest harvest to amoebic gill disease (AGD), the ailment that is set to cost the industry more than £30 million in lost revenue.

GRIEG Seafood, one of Scotland's big five salmon farmers, has lost one-third of its latest harvest to amoebic gill disease (AGD), the ailment that is set to cost the industry more than £30 million in lost revenue.
Custom byline text: Steven vass
Grieg owns 31 farms on the Shetland Islands and employs 180 local people.

It confirmed in its latest trading update that 2400 tonnes of salmon with a market value of some £8m died between October and December of last year.

Contextual targeting label: Block list

Like many farmed salmon in Scotland, the fish had been infected by AGD, a disease that is not normally seen in this country but has thrived in unusually high seawater temperatures in the past few months.

Grieg's farms were then also attacked by sea lice, and fish already weakened by the AGD then died from the lice treatment.

Oslo-listed Grieg has taken a NK45m (£5m) writedown over the lost tonnage, pushed up to NK88m (£10m) due to problems with a different disease at its Canadian farms.

It has become the latest victim in an AGD outbreak across Scottish salmon farms, described by one analyst as very serious.

It is expected to cut 2013 tonnages by at least 7500 tonnes or 5%, which, added to Grieg's losses, will represent a revenue loss of about £32.5m at a per-kilo price of £3.25 (as quoted by Index Mundi).

In reality, however, the situation could be worse after the other major farmers update the markets in the coming weeks.

The Scottish Salmon Company (SSC) and Marine Harvest (MH) have both confirmed that they lost fish in 2012 due to AGD, and harvested fish earlier than planned while they were still healthy. This would affect its 2013 tonnages.

The cost of treating the AGD with fresh water or hydrogen peroxide needs to be added on as well.

Kolbjorn Giskeodegard, an analyst at Nordea Research said: "Clearly it's very serious and it's affecting the industry more strongly than I had estimated beforehand.

"Harvesting fish early obviously has a very serious effect on cash flow and earnings. If you are harvesting the fish at 2.5 kilos instead of five kilos, the cost will be higher and the price lower.

"No-one is to blame for this problem. We will have to wait until the Q4 results to be able to more accurately estimate this issue."

Henning Lund, an analyst at Pareto Securities, who is forecasting a 5% hit to 2013 tonnages in Scotland, said: "The volume impact might be bigger, but it remains to see if this will be a significant problem next summer. Also we believe the farming industry is more prepared and has learned to deal better with this."

AGD was first reported in Scottish waters by the SSC at Lamlash on the island of Arran in October 2011, where it had killed 279,000 salmon.

Since then, a freedom of information request by anti-salmon-farm campaigners found that 29 farms reported infections between July and October of last year alone, as the disease spread north to the Western Isles, the Orkneys and now the Shetlands.

AGD attacks the fishes' gills, producing mucus which, if left untreated, can cause suffocation.

Grieg Seafood did not return calls in time for publication.

Meanwhile, Marine Harvest, the world's largest salmon farmer, last week reported an 85% drop in fourth-quarter core earnings due to the weak price of salmon. Earnings before interest and tax came in at £6.6m, well below the analysts' consensus £18m.

[alwaysfishn]

That pitiful story illustrates the sort of diseased cesspools that are planted in our oceans. It's a shame that we need to go to court to get the disease records.

I'm sure the pro feedlot boys look at this and say "but show me the science". This is a story of mostly the Scotland feedlots, however the same disease infected feedlots are planted in the middle of our west coast wild salmon. While science would confirm the effect, even a child can figure out that these feedlots are killing wild salmon.

[Dave]

So typical and so lame ... whenever the anti fish farmers are challenged with a question like dnibbles posed  ie. show just one example of how farmed salmon have impacted indigenous salmon in BC, something irrelevant like the above postings are trotted out.
I'm surprised there was no mention of Chile; that used to be the default response.

As nibs said, deflect away

[chris gadsden]

So typical and so lame ... whenever the anti fish farmers are challenged with a question like dnibbles posed  ie. show just one example of how farmed salmon have impacted indigenous salmon in BC, something irrelevant like the above postings are trotted out.
I'm surprised there was no mention of Chile; that used to be the default response.

As nibs said, deflect away

Pick a part of course.

[shuswapsteve]

A number of you post how great the industry is but how do you explain things like this? Does not seem to great to me.

Yes, Chris, fish both in the wild, in net-pen fish farms and in hatcheries are not 100% immune from pathogens.  Land-based agriculture is also prone to pathogens.  I guess they are not great either....Better start a boycott there also.  If salmon farming ended tomorrow there would still be fish diseases.  Many diseases like IHN have been here long before fish farming.  Posting a story about a fish disease occurance does not mean that the aquaculture industry is being reckless.  I find on these boards that many activists like to mention fish diseases, but do not have any idea about them other than to say they are bad for fish.  To balance this story out you should explain how fish farms (Reference to BC would be nice and this point, Chris) test for diseases and work to minimize these outbreaks.

Chile used to be the default response until anti-fish farm activists realized that their fears abroad did not add up to millions of Atlantic Salmon on BC fish farms dying of ISA.

[chris gadsden]

From the CBC

Salmon from a quarantined Nova Scotia aquaculture farm are now being moved to a fish plant in Blacks Harbour, N.B. for processing.

Cooke Aquaculture is the first company to process fish with infectious salmon anemia (ISA) under a new set of rules set by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency.

According to the CFIA, ISA poses no threat to humans and are safe to consume.

About 240,000 salmon from Cooke Aquaculture's quarantined Coffin Island Farm near Liverpool, N.S. will be transported by tanker truck to New Brunswick in the coming weeks. The first shipments of fish were sent last week.

There is no treatment for ISA, which is fatal to fish and easily spreads throughout a population. The CFIA as taken steps to prevent contamination.

There has been a heavy presence of CFIA inspectors at stages throughout the transfer process and also at the Black's Harbour plant. Plant employees have had to wear special suits to avoid spreading contamination.

Nell Halse, a spokesperson for Cooke Aquaculture, said it's a big job.

"The plant has to be completely disinfected," said Halse. "The employees have to change gear and then the ISA fish are brought in and again — this is nothing to do with human health, the fish are perfectly safe to eat."

In fact, Halse said, the company is obligated to process and market the fish if possible because the government has to compensate salmon growers for fish that are culled because of disease.

Cooke has classifications under which the fish can be marketed.

Janice Harvey, who has been a critic of the industry since 1990, said disease is a byproduct of industrialized fish growing.

"If it's going to continue, then you're going to expect to have diseases and you're going to have to deal with diseased fish," she said.

An outbreak of ISA at a Cooke facility in Shelburne in February resulted in the company destroying 700,000 fish.

 
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[alwaysfishn]

To be sold in your local Superstore...

Look for the specially labelled product:  "Safe for human consumption, recommend you wear a special suit when preparing your fillet, so as to avoid contamination".

It should be flying off the shelves! 

[shuswapsteve]

fair enough..."guess work" seems a bit derogatory as a description...it was an attempt to describe statistically the discrepancy of fish counting and it's correlation to harvest forecasting.

Cohen does a good job discussing this topic.  Please see the following link, but look specifically between Pg 113 to 184 (pre-season, in-season and post-season activities).

http://www.cohencommission.ca/en/pdf/FinalReport/CohenCommissionFinalReport_Vol01_05.pdf#zoom=100

[chris gadsden]

http://donstaniford.typepad.com/my-blog/2013/01/sunday-express-farms-turning-pristine-waters-to-toxic-toilets-.html

[Dave]

http://donstaniford.typepad.com/my-blog/2013/01/sunday-express-farms-turning-pristine-waters-to-toxic-toilets-.html

What a crock of .... Virtually every salmonid hatchery on the west coast uses formalin for treatments to combat fungus, including  the adult steelhead now being held for broodstock at the Chilliwack River Hatchery.  The small Cultus Lake sockeye hatchery program alone uses 45 gallons of 37% (full strength) of the stuff every fall.
Where do you think this formalin ends up?

More garbage from Staniford.