Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: Idle No More?  (Read 33449 times)

adriaticum

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1066
Re: Idle No More?
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2013, 09:52:44 AM »

It's disgusting . All  Canadians hard earned taxes being wasted like that. There has to be more accountability  from the federal gov. And First Nations,

There has to be more acountability from all levels of government!
Logged

Riverman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 378
  • old fart
Re: Idle No More?
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2013, 03:55:19 PM »

 They lost any hope of credibility when they started abusing the Canadian flag in a very public way.Many aboriginal people fought for this country with honour in the past.The idea that any tribe is a nation is fine but if the credibility stretch is to be made that those nations are to be treated as countries unto themselves with separate systems of law on equal footing with the country of Canada,then they can just think again.
Logged
Riverman

Athezone

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 989
Re: Idle No More?
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2013, 10:27:19 AM »

Canada, Prepare For Many More Blockades as Natives are Prepared to Shutdown Railways, Highways and Bridges If Necessary !!!!

Just a few fact's:

Approx. 1.17 million aboriginal people in Canada 3% of total pop. The Govt. gives approx. $8  billion per year to the aboriginal cause.

Some native's believe that the 630 bands in Canada are not native communities but rather sovereign nation's and should be dealt with by Canada nation to nation.

In October 2012 four women from Sask. began a protest movement against omnibus Bill C-45 and thus Idle No More was born.

The movement picked up international attention on Dec. 11 when Attawapiskat Chief Teresa Spence began a hunger strike.

Facts about Chief Spences native band: Federal Govt. does audit in 2012. Between 2005 and 2011 the band was given approx. 104 million dollars. 81% did not have supporting documents and over 60% of the money had no documentation to explain where it went.

1600 people live in approx. 300 homes on reserve. They have 3 chiefs and 18 councillor's-21 fulltime paid politicians on payroll.
In contrast: Toronto - 1 mayor-44 councillor's, pop. - 2.75 million people.

Some families in the band have no running water or electricity.

Chief Spences live in boyfriend earns $850.00 per day as co-manager. Chief Spences owns a Cadillac SUV. Together they make over $250,00 per year, tax free. Have $9 million in a stock portfolio.

Hypocrisy, lies, mismanagement of funds, what do you think ? Thought's please !








 
Logged

adriaticum

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1066
Re: Idle No More?
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2013, 07:57:09 PM »

Canada, Prepare For Many More Blockades as Natives are Prepared to Shutdown Railways, Highways and Bridges If Necessary !!!!

Just a few fact's:

Approx. 1.17 million aboriginal people in Canada 3% of total pop. The Govt. gives approx. $8  billion per year to the aboriginal cause.

Some native's believe that the 630 bands in Canada are not native communities but rather sovereign nation's and should be dealt with by Canada nation to nation.

In October 2012 four women from Sask. began a protest movement against omnibus Bill C-45 and thus Idle No More was born.

The movement picked up international attention on Dec. 11 when Attawapiskat Chief Teresa Spence began a hunger strike.

Facts about Chief Spences native band: Federal Govt. does audit in 2012. Between 2005 and 2011 the band was given approx. 104 million dollars. 81% did not have supporting documents and over 60% of the money had no documentation to explain where it went.

1600 people live in approx. 300 homes on reserve. They have 3 chiefs and 18 councillor's-21 fulltime paid politicians on payroll.
In contrast: Toronto - 1 mayor-44 councillor's, pop. - 2.75 million people.

Some families in the band have no running water or electricity.

Chief Spences live in boyfriend earns $850.00 per day as co-manager. Chief Spences owns a Cadillac SUV. Together they make over $250,00 per year, tax free. Have $9 million in a stock portfolio.

Hypocrisy, lies, mismanagement of funds, what do you think ? Thought's please !


I agree with you, their own people are ripping them off but they don't know that. FNs tend to blame Europeans for everything.
I am sick and tired of seing my money go to FNs, accomplish nothing, and then I get slack all the time.
They will never appreciate what they have because they don't have to work for it.
The big question is what are the non-FNs prepared to do about it.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2013, 08:00:03 PM by adriaticum »
Logged

norton

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 166
Re: Idle No More?
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2013, 07:59:55 PM »

You got that  right trout breath!
Logged

Athezone

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 989
Re: Idle No More?
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2013, 01:30:08 PM »

I agree with you, their own people are ripping them off but they don't know that. FNs tend to blame Europeans for everything.
I am sick and tired of seing my money go to FNs, accomplish nothing, and then I get slack all the time.
They will never appreciate what they have because they don't have to work for it.
The big question is what are the non-FNs prepared to do about it.

Funny thing is they are not worried about Bill C-45 so much it's Bill C-27, the Firsts Nations Financial Transparency Act that has all the chief's and council members scared as hell. The First Nations Financial Transparency Act — would require every reserve in this country to annually cough up its financials, including the salaries of chiefs and band councils. They are all more than willing to keep taking the billion's that We give Them as long as there are no demands for accountability.

The politically correct follower's of Idle No More are happy to protest but ask them to face the truth and show us where the missing millions of dollars went then they become angry and loud. It seems so self righteous and ludicrous, even as some natives live in an unheated shack with no electricity that they can just look out their window and see their Chief driving her Cadillac Escalade to home.

You want to know where the problems are, let's start there.

Logged

hotrod

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 302
Re: Idle No More?
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2013, 06:23:26 AM »

Logged

alwaysfishn

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2364
Re: Idle No More?
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2013, 09:43:57 AM »

http://elysebruce.wordpress.com/2013/01/21/idle-no-more-about-that-fn-trust/

reality check here!

Why don't you explain what you see as a reality in this article...
Logged
Disclosure:  This post has not been approved by the feedlot boys, therefore will likely be found to contain errors and statements that are out of context. :-[

fyrslyer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 133
Re: Idle No More?
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2013, 04:53:16 PM »

interesting video

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid868989705001?bckey=AQ~~,AAAAybGjzqk~,6NfTc6c241GVQxOh-GBHNHu5Cuhlf-y9&bctid=1741805410001

Absolutely disgusting that they get all those handouts, we need to start telling our government to stop giving them those outrageous amounts of contracts and money when they don't know how to use the funds properly.
Logged

StillAqua

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 489
Re: Idle No More?
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2013, 07:03:09 PM »

I see a bunch of you skipped early Canadian History class. What do you all know about the alliances and agreements among the British, French and Indians that forged this country?

Let's start with Treaties. Treaties established over the last several hundred years were business partnerships between Indian leaders and the British and Dominion governments who recognized their aboriginal rights to the land but wanted more Indian land for settlement and development (trains, roads, navigation and mining mostly). So they made a bunch of deals with the existing Indian Bands called Treaties. FNs surrendered certain aboriginal land rights (not all) to the government as investment capital in exchange for a long-term return on that investment that included education funding, annual payments (called Treaty annuities), and the maintenance of aboriginal rights to the land for gathering, hunting, fishing, trapping (which the government refused to maintain and defend after all, allowing white men to clean out the fur bearers and large game). If First Nation governments had not agreed to establish Treaties, Canada would be quite different than it is today. Existing treaty rights like education, new treaty negotiations and universal health care are among some of the reasons why we provide billions of dollars a year to FNs as part of this business partnership.

There's a lot of other BS in this thread about Attawapiskat from guys posting "facts" from rants by Ezra Levant. He's the biggest right wing hate monger in the country and is notorious for making up his own version of the facts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezra_Levant
Like the $9million stock portfolio that Chief Spence and her partner supposedly have. That's the bands trust portfolio of annual royalties from the multi-billion dollar DeBeers diamond mine, held in trust for future generations. Not quite what Ezra claimed is it?
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1312182--walkom-the-real-story-behind-attawapiskat-s-problems
Logged

Sandman

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1498
Re: Idle No More?
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2013, 07:45:21 PM »

I see a bunch of you skipped early Canadian History class. What do you all know about the alliances and agreements among the British, French and Indians that forged this country?

Let's start with Treaties. Treaties established over the last several hundred years were business partnerships between Indian leaders and the British and Dominion governments who recognized their aboriginal rights to the land but wanted more Indian land for settlement and development (trains, roads, navigation and mining mostly). So they made a bunch of deals with the existing Indian Bands called Treaties. FNs surrendered certain aboriginal land rights (not all) to the government as investment capital in exchange for a long-term return on that investment that included education funding, annual payments (called Treaty annuities), and the maintenance of aboriginal rights to the land for gathering, hunting, fishing, trapping (which the government refused to maintain and defend after all, allowing white men to clean out the fur bearers and large game). If First Nation governments had not agreed to establish Treaties, Canada would be quite different than it is today. Existing treaty rights like education, new treaty negotiations and universal health care are among some of the reasons why we provide billions of dollars a year to FNs as part of this business partnership.

There's a lot of other BS in this thread about Attawapiskat from guys posting "facts" from rants by Ezra Levant. He's the biggest right wing hate monger in the country and is notorious for making up his own version of the facts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezra_Levant
Like the $9million stock portfolio that Chief Spence and her partner supposedly have. That's the bands trust portfolio of annual royalties from the multi-billion dollar DeBeers diamond mine, held in trust for future generations. Not quite what Ezra claimed is it?
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1312182--walkom-the-real-story-behind-attawapiskat-s-problems


Agreed, the arrogance and ignorance expressed in this thread is disgraceful and a condemnation of our own education system that has utterly failed to teach Canadians their own history.  These are not "hand outs" the FN are receiving and it is not "your tax dollars" they are "wasting."  These are monies set up in trust in exchange for the use of the vast majority of their lands in the country we now call Canada (a first nation's word for village: kanata).  Not only is this money we owe the FN people and their descendants for the continued use of their lands as set out in signed Treaties (treaties between sovereign peoples), but our government has a long history of unilaterally changing the terms of those agreements whenever it pleases them, and the FN are finally standing up and saying enough is enough.  Imagine you bought a piece of land from your neighbour for a great deal.  then a few years later you discovered oil on that part of the property and then your neighbour was able to rewrite the agreement and force you to give back the land with the oil, accept another piece of land ( a smaller piece) and offered you either little or no compensation for the exchange, including the loss of any improvements you had already paid for on that land?  I bet you would be pissed too.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 08:21:52 PM by Sandman »
Logged
Not all those who wander are lost

alwaysfishn

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2364
Re: Idle No More?
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2013, 08:21:15 PM »

I think you guys are over reacting just a bit and coming off a little self righteous in the process. While some of the points you make are valid, the problem is about how FN leaders are not being held accountable for their finances. You may slag Ezra, but you are failing to recognize that the generally left wing media (where most of us get our "news") is failing to report the full story. While Ezra may be over the top in some of his views, at least he is reporting on the issues the media is unwilling to touch.

The poverty in many of the FN communities are real and the FN leaders are taking advantage of their people is real. Part of the protest movement (lead by FN leaders) is about resisting more transparency and accountability on how they spend their money. This is a very basic requirement in my opinion. While the FN argue for independence and self governance, they are not qualified to handle it at this point.
Logged
Disclosure:  This post has not been approved by the feedlot boys, therefore will likely be found to contain errors and statements that are out of context. :-[

bigblockfox

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 788
Re: Idle No More?
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2013, 09:04:32 PM »

Logged

adriaticum

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1066
Re: Idle No More?
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2013, 09:14:11 PM »

I see a bunch of you skipped early Canadian History class. What do you all know about the alliances and agreements among the British, French and Indians that forged this country?

Let's start with Treaties. Treaties established over the last several hundred years were business partnerships between Indian leaders and the British and Dominion governments who recognized their aboriginal rights to the land but wanted more Indian land for settlement and development (trains, roads, navigation and mining mostly). So they made a bunch of deals with the existing Indian Bands called Treaties. FNs surrendered certain aboriginal land rights (not all) to the government as investment capital in exchange for a long-term return on that investment that included education funding, annual payments (called Treaty annuities), and the maintenance of aboriginal rights to the land for gathering, hunting, fishing, trapping (which the government refused to maintain and defend after all, allowing white men to clean out the fur bearers and large game). If First Nation governments had not agreed to establish Treaties, Canada would be quite different than it is today. Existing treaty rights like education, new treaty negotiations and universal health care are among some of the reasons why we provide billions of dollars a year to FNs as part of this business partnership.

There's a lot of other BS in this thread about Attawapiskat from guys posting "facts" from rants by Ezra Levant. He's the biggest right wing hate monger in the country and is notorious for making up his own version of the facts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezra_Levant
Like the $9million stock portfolio that Chief Spence and her partner supposedly have. That's the bands trust portfolio of annual royalties from the multi-billion dollar DeBeers diamond mine, held in trust for future generations. Not quite what Ezra claimed is it?
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1312182--walkom-the-real-story-behind-attawapiskat-s-problems



Actually I think you missed the history lessons. Or at least you are interpreting them as you see it.
You are talking about some "business" like deals or something like we are leasing their land.
Treaties were setup for many reasons and leasing the land from the FNs wasn't one of them.
They were setup to preserve FNs culture, to have an ally against US that always had tendencies to "drop in".
Treates were setup so that FN we not eliminated which happened in the US and so on.
Last I remember FNs were losing out the land to the "guns" anyway.
Indians knew that Europeans were going to settle in the land whether treaties existed or not so they did one smart thing they could.
They agreed to treaties that would preserve some land for them. And when you look at it, they have an excellent deal.
And yes the moneys given to them are "handouts". Basically a welfare system that is keeping them just above water. Barely.
If they knew better they would not take that money and would learn to become self sufficient.

Sandman, to talk about "sovereign peoples", "use of the land" is to truly not understand the politics of the day.

Now I may sound like I'm anti FNs, which is not true at all.
I would rather they face reality and get with the times.
The times of free roaming the land, hunting and gathering are long over (although I missed those days too  :D) and they should get over it already or they will go further and further into oblivion.
Look a the Osoyoos band. They didn't take government handouts and made themselves prosperous thanks to, in large part, a few good men.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 09:16:11 PM by adriaticum »
Logged