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Author Topic: New policy gives government power to muzzle DFO scientists  (Read 8785 times)

dnibbles

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Re: New policy gives government power to muzzle DFO scientists
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2013, 06:36:54 PM »

Ha! He'll never muzzle DFO scientists as long as FWR is around! ;)
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shuswapsteve

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Re: New policy gives government power to muzzle DFO scientists
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2013, 09:16:01 PM »

Harper vs. the World Wide Web

Sort of like how governments are winning the war on drugs....lol.
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Terry Bodman

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Re: New policy gives government power to muzzle DFO scientists
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2013, 08:51:08 AM »

Well we wanted a majority government and that's what we got. It can do whatever it wants.
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"One man of courage makes a majority"

skaha

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Re: New policy gives government power to muzzle DFO scientists
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2013, 11:27:17 AM »

--Presumably some of these scientist belong to professional organizations such as RPBio or PEng etc... why are these groups not in court over this type of censure?
--Another reason to have whistle blower legislation.

--Provincial Government is a little less blatant... they have your manager say no then if you do speak you are charged with insubordination.. the manager then states they have no problem with the information that was censured just that the individual didn't follow proper procedure to get it published.
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StillAqua

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Re: New policy gives government power to muzzle DFO scientists
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2013, 01:45:53 PM »

--Presumably some of these scientist belong to professional organizations such as RPBio or PEng etc... why are these groups not in court over this type of censure?

Most professional organizations are Provincially regulated and there is no requirement for Federal professionals to belong to or be regulated by the Provincial governing bodies; it's a loophole that Federal politicians refuse to close for exactly the reason you state and that irks Federal gov't professionals to no end.
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skaha

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Re: New policy gives government power to muzzle DFO scientists
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2013, 03:18:23 PM »

--Yes and in BC there is an exemption for Scientists doing pure research.... they do not have to belong to the professional organization unless they are doing practicle research or giving professional advice.
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TacoChris

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Re: New policy gives government power to muzzle DFO scientists
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2013, 02:13:05 PM »

Some of the adviser's have worked for both the Federal Conservatives and the BC Provincial Liberal party. It shows in their control the message philosophy. Gag orders, limit debate remove those pesky regulations because they are inconvenient to business Their environmental philosophy is to let industry self police. Both parties have tried to remove themselves of the inconvenience of an Auditor who oversees government expenditures. BC voted to let theirs go and tried to get him back when it looked bad in the press. Harper wants to change the rules to what theirs can review after the F35 fiasco. More money wasted on advertising than ever before despite large deficits.

Better watch what we post next step is to lock up dissenters. Forced labour at fish farms.
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alwaysfishn

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Re: New policy gives government power to muzzle DFO scientists
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2013, 07:09:23 PM »

.....   Forced labour at fish farms.

That's scary.
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Disclosure:  This post has not been approved by the feedlot boys, therefore will likely be found to contain errors and statements that are out of context. :-[

Dave

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Re: New policy gives government power to muzzle DFO scientists
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2013, 08:59:01 PM »

That's scary.
C'mon af... gotta think you could chuck those pellets clear across the net pen ...  hey, you might even learn to enjoy really working with fish on a daily basis ;D
 
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alwaysfishn

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Re: New policy gives government power to muzzle DFO scientists
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2013, 09:05:09 PM »

C'mon af... gotta think you could chuck those pellets clear across the net pen ...  hey, you might even learn to enjoy really working with fish on a daily basis ;D
 

It's my conscience I'd have trouble dealing with......    Probably is the same reason I never became a drug dealer.   :D
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Disclosure:  This post has not been approved by the feedlot boys, therefore will likely be found to contain errors and statements that are out of context. :-[

StillAqua

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Re: New policy gives government power to muzzle DFO scientists
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2013, 05:36:23 AM »

Now the Harper gov't is trying to muzzle US scientists as well.....starts about 1:40 minutes into the recording. The Senior DFO bureaucrat interviewed at the end doesn't do a very convincing song and dance.

http://www.cbc.ca/asithappens/popupaudio.html?clipIds=2335251003,2335251292,2335251886
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alwaysfishn

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Re: New policy gives government power to muzzle DFO scientists
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2013, 07:38:08 AM »

Gives a lot of support to the "conspiracy theory" that the feedlot damage to our wild salmon is being muzzled by DFO. Also supports why DFO "finds no evidence" of ISAV and other lethal viruses in our salmon, even though Morton and other scientists outside of DFO are finding evidence...

Scary stuff.
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Disclosure:  This post has not been approved by the feedlot boys, therefore will likely be found to contain errors and statements that are out of context. :-[

troutbreath

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Re: New policy gives government power to muzzle DFO scientists
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2013, 07:54:29 AM »

I'd like to take Harper down with a big plate of feedlot salmon. ;D
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another SLICE of dirty fish perhaps?

shuswapsteve

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Re: New policy gives government power to muzzle DFO scientists
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2013, 12:16:35 AM »

Gives a lot of support to the "conspiracy theory" that the feedlot damage to our wild salmon is being muzzled by DFO. Also supports why DFO "finds no evidence" of ISAV and other lethal viruses in our salmon, even though Morton and other scientists outside of DFO are finding evidence...

Scary stuff.

Not sure if the conspiracy theory holds much water with ISA or ISAV because many of the major players (governmental and non-governmental scientists) in this provided testimony at a Cohen Commission judicial inquiry.  These experts were Dr. Kilbenge, Dr. Nylund, Ms. Gagne, and Dr. Miller.

As described in the previous chapter, I find that the evidence does not allow me to conclude whether the infectious salmon anemia virus (ISAv) or an ISAv-like virus currently exists in Fraser River sockeye. I also do not have sufficient evidence to determine whether such an ISAv or ISAv-like virus, if present, is endemic to BC waters or has been introduced. I accept the opinion of several experts appearing before me that, at present, there has been no evidence that salmon recently tested for ISAv (the virus) suffered from ISA (the disease) as it is now understood. That is not to say that salmon testing positive for ISAv or ISAv-like genetic sequences may not be exhibiting a host response of some form. – Justice Bruce Cohen; Cohen Commission of Inquiry into the Decline of Sockeye Salmon in the Fraser River; Vol. 2, Chapter 5: Findings, Page 111.

Although they did not agree on whether ISAv or an ISAv-like virus was present, all agreed that more research was necessary and that, whether ISAv is present or not, there had been no confirmation of ISA in any of the Pacific salmon tested by the time of the December hearings.  As stated in Volume 1, Chapter 9, Fish health management, I find that the evidence does not allow me to conclude whether ISAv or an ISAv-like virus currently exists in Fraser River sockeye. However, I accept the opinion of the expert panel (Dr. Kibenge, Dr. Nylund, Ms. Gagné, and Dr. Miller) that, as of December 2011, there was no evidence that fish tested for ISAv (the virus) suffered from ISA (the disease) as that disease was then understood. – Justice Bruce Cohen; Cohen Commission of Inquiry into the Decline of Sockeye Salmon in the Fraser River; Vol 2, Chapter 4: Decline Related Evidence, Page 60.

Secondly, because ISA is known for causing significant loss to fish farm operations (i.e. Chile) one would expect million of dead Atlantic Salmon on BC fish farms if ISA was present.  It is not something that can be easily hidden.  As Dr. Marty points out, it is not realistic that an infectious strain of ISAv would kill only 2% (55/2,709) of the dead fish sampled between 2006 and 2010.   Thirdly, ISA (like IHN) is a reportable disease which means that fish farms are legally obligated to report it if present.  For instance, when IHN was discovered at Mainstream’s Clayoquot area farms in May 2012 and Tofino area fish farms in July 2012 they were both reported to the CFIA like they should have.  How was this hidden?  Similarly, when ISA was discovered back east it was reported to the CFIA who in turn had the results confirmed by DFO’s Moncton lab and reported to the OIE (check their website).  How was this hidden?  Now if ISA was found and BC fish farms failed to report it or erased records of it then I might see your point.  What Morton did was misinterpret what other scientists at the inquiry were saying on the subject as well as what Justice Cohen says in his Final Report.  They are saying one thing while she is saying another.  That is the only real conspiracy here.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 12:18:09 AM by shuswapsteve »
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