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[Kenwee]

Many good suggestions for the Vedder has been put forth. Perhaps a Vedder River Wellness Society should be formed and registered. Membership be opened to supporters of the Vedder River and an annual fee collected. The society will organize activities to raise funds to support its activities and these funds should be used to promote the fisheries in the Vedder.

The society as it grows will become a voice for the Vedder and perhaps our office bearers may have enough strength to influence the powers that be to take notice of the plight of the fisheries on the Vedder.

[Rodney]

Plenty of ideas being offered in the discussion forum, but almost none will be delivered to those who can make a difference once again. You don't need to form another advocacy group to make these suggestions a reality, existing groups are already available to take on those tasks.

Join the Fraser Valley Salmon Society, the BC Federation of Drift Fishers, Steelhead Society of BC, BC Federation of Fly Fishers, whichever one fits your vision. Engage in conversations with directors of your group, attend annual general meetings, make suggestions and step up to transform ideas to actions. Your group has representations at the local sport fishing advisory committee, which is the only communication channel with Fisheries and Oceans Canada. Two meetings (spring and fall) are held each year for every local SFAC, where resource managers, hatchery managers, enforcement officers engage in discussions about important local issues.

Until you attempt in one of these discussions, please don't suggest that those who work in this field don't give a damn about our fishery resources.

[jetboatjim]

I think the constant thrashing on MOE and DFO is plain stupid, usually coming from someone that has little knowledge of what they actually do , and the red tape they go through.

there is many of us that are involved and have tried to and will continue to try to make a difference.

I know the BCCF funding is just about empty and there will be no more steelhead programs (habitat and reaserch) in region 2........

would I spend more money for a licence ? NO because its an easy cash cow for other more important things like health care and welfare.......

like I said before the things that will take away our steelhead is GREED by everyone.

[adriaticum]

At least there's still Steelies in other systems...more people fishing the Chedder right now the better

Now what system might you be talking about Chehalis_Steel? 

[adriaticum]

My one question to the hatchery programs would be why they take wild steelhead for broodstock. They are basically removing wild fish from the pool and in this way reducing the number of wild fish eggs in the river. Why don't they just take the hatchery fish.

[dnibbles]

My one question to the hatchery programs would be why they take wild steelhead for broodstock. They are basically removing wild fish from the pool and in this way reducing the number of wild fish eggs in the river. Why don't they just take the hatchery fish.

To try to minimize genetic impacts on the naturally spawning population. US hatcheries do as you say (a segregated hatchery program), and have had significant issues with genetic impacts and loss of fitness in steelhead populations.

[bigblue]

To try to minimize genetic impacts on the naturally spawning population. US hatcheries do as you say (a segregated hatchery program), and have had significant issues with genetic impacts and loss of fitness in steelhead populations.

A lot of reserach have already been done on this topic in the US on it's negetive consequences. I don't think using hatchery fish as broodstock is a viable option for Vedder.

[dnibbles]

A lot of reserach have already been done on this topic in the US on it's negetive consequences. I don't think using hatchery fish as broodstock is a viable option for Vedder.

Yes, that's what I was saying. Sticking to using wild brood stock will hopefully avoid the genetic impacts observed in American steelhead programs.

[bcguy]

It is a well-known fact that underfunded projects yield less than stellar results.
The Vedder hatchery and habitat restoration projects are no exception. From hatchery programs to erosion contention, there is lots that can be done to improve the river for fishing, but unfortunately there is never enough money.

Therefore, I suggest designating the Vedder as classified water, and propose a $10-15 dollar stamp ($20-30$ for non residents) for the privilege to fish it, with ALL the money going exclusively towards the needs of the river and its diverse fisheries.
With the number of anglers who fish the Vedder year round, that would end up being quite a lot of money.

Who among us who fish this river wouldn't agree to pay the extra money knowing that it is being put to good use? For the price of a couple of beers in a pub, we could make a big difference!

I would like to know what steps are needed to make this happen.

Stellar idea!! Year round classified waters with all monies collected going directly back into this system. Simple, effective, and would probably help alleviate some of the pressure

[adriaticum]

Yes, that's what I was saying. Sticking to using wild brood stock will hopefully avoid the genetic impacts observed in American steelhead programs.

Thanks
I can appreciate the "loss of fitness" aspect but I don't see the "genetic impact" on naturally spawning populations you are talking about. Can you explain?
If you are taking hatchery fish that have returned home for eggs what impact does it have on wild naturally spawning fish.

Also hatchery produced fish are shielded very much in their cozy pens.
Why don't hatcheries build open pen systems directly in the river and keep the fish in the flow of the river. All you need is 4 stakes in the river and pour concrete to hold them in place. Something at the head to shield the net from being destroyed by the flowing debris during high water and this will put your fish right on the treadmill to increase their fitness  .
Perhaps if this is done in the side channels the danger of drift wood destroying the pens. I'm sure it costs money.

[liketofish]

It is a well-known fact that underfunded projects yield less than stellar results.
The Vedder hatchery and habitat restoration projects are no exception. From hatchery programs to erosion contention, there is lots that can be done to improve the river for fishing, but unfortunately there is never enough money.

Therefore, I suggest designating the Vedder as classified water, and propose a $10-15 dollar stamp ($20-30$ for non residents) for the privilege to fish it, with ALL the money going exclusively towards the needs of the river and its diverse fisheries.
With the number of anglers who fish the Vedder year round, that would end up being quite a lot of money.

I would like to know what steps are needed to make this happen.

Right on. This is what I proposed in an earlier post. Why not? We need to have this money exclusively spent on enhancing the fishing on Vedder and not spent on administrative expenses of the government. If we need warmer water for the steelhead, some engineering firms should be able to design something to heat the water and the stamp fund can be used to support this. It can also afford to stock more smolt than our current number of around 100K fish if there are money to feed the smolt. Add to this some local volunteering work, this can substain a good fishery on the Vedder without extra money from the government. And of course, we can cut down fishing pressure on the Vedder  with a stamp requirement. Why didn't some fishing organizations push for this idea?

[EZ_Rolling]

I would like all these good things as well but fishing should be for the masses ....I pay enough tax and this would be just a form of a tax.

The hatchery should be allowed to raise funds thru other channels than just Government funding

I would happily donate time and or money directly to the Hatchery and I don't trust all funds would go where they should if it was collected by the Government.

[typhoon]

I would like all these good things as well but fishing should be for the masses ....I pay enough tax and this would be just a form of a tax.

The hatchery should be allowed to raise funds thru other channels than just Government funding

I would happily donate time and or money directly to the Hatchery and I don't trust all funds would go where they should if it was collected by the Government.

It's called user pay, and it is exactly the opposite of a tax.

A tax is where the masses pay for a service in order to enhance society regardless of whether they use it. As an example, I have no kids yet pay significant school taxes. I don't complain about it because I believe in an educated society.

Individuals don't get to decide what is best for society because they almost always act in their own
best interests, rather than the interest of the masses.

Fishing is not for the masses. It is for a small percentage of residents but has a very significant impact on the economy. By this measure retail shops in Chilliwack should pay a higher percentage of the requirements, since they see the greatest benefit of the additional traffic.

Not trusting the government is an entirely different issue.

[dnibbles]

Thanks
I can appreciate the "loss of fitness" aspect but I don't see the "genetic impact" on naturally spawning populations you are talking about. Can you explain?
If you are taking hatchery fish that have returned home for eggs what impact does it have on wild naturally spawning fish.

Also hatchery produced fish are shielded very much in their cozy pens.
Why don't hatcheries build open pen systems directly in the river and keep the fish in the flow of the river. All you need is 4 stakes in the river and pour concrete to hold them in place. Something at the head to shield the net from being destroyed by the flowing debris during high water and this will put your fish right on the treadmill to increase their fitness  .
Perhaps if this is done in the side channels the danger of drift wood destroying the pens. I'm sure it costs money.

Sure thing. First off, the term "fitness" in the context of genetics isn't referring to the actual physiology of the fish (i.e. swimming performance etc), but to the reproductive fitness of the population. When you produce hatchery fish that return to the spawning grounds as adults, some percentage of these fish will avoid harvest and will spawn naturally with wild fish. There is considerable scientific research that indicates that first generation hatchery fish have lower reproductive fitness than wild fish. There are several fish culture strategies that can be employed to minimize the potential impacts. At Chilliwack hatchery for example, only wild fish are used for brood stock (as mentioned above). This ensures that the smolts released from the hatchery are of the highest quality and are as genetically similar to the wild-spawned production as possible, which will then minimize genetic effects of subsequent interbreeding between hatchery and wild fish.

When hatchery fish are used for brood stock, there are potential domestication and genetic drift effects that could occur. The hatchery environment applies a different set of selective pressures than the wild environment does, so segregation of hatchery fish from wild brood stock can lead to accelerated genetic drift.

Some papers that may be of interest below.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0012261;jsessionid=BED9ADCD25F6D0037D5E772D024DB951.ambra01
http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.1139/f91-311#.UVEfeGhV25s
http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.1139/f03-092#.UVEfqmhV25s

[Johnny Canuck]

The chilliwack system is the most heavily system in BC, making it a classified system would DESTROY other near by systems which experience less pressure I think.

Thanks
I can appreciate the "loss of fitness" aspect but I don't see the "genetic impact" on naturally spawning populations you are talking about. Can you explain?
If you are taking hatchery fish that have returned home for eggs what impact does it have on wild naturally spawning fish.

Also hatchery produced fish are shielded very much in their cozy pens.
Why don't hatcheries build open pen systems directly in the river and keep the fish in the flow of the river. All you need is 4 stakes in the river and pour concrete to hold them in place. Something at the head to shield the net from being destroyed by the flowing debris during high water and this will put your fish right on the treadmill to increase their fitness  .
Perhaps if this is done in the side channels the danger of drift wood destroying the pens. I'm sure it costs money.

A pen in the river would never be allowed as any excess food will be washed downstream as well as any infection or virus that the fish could possibly get that then could potentially wipe out wild fish. Much like the fish farms in the salt, not good for our waters...

Right on. This is what I proposed in an earlier post. Why not? We need to have this money exclusively spent on enhancing the fishing on Vedder and not spent on administrative expenses of the government. If we need warmer water for the steelhead, some engineering firms should be able to design something to heat the water and the stamp fund can be used to support this. It can also afford to stock more smolt than our current number of around 100K fish if there are money to feed the smolt. Add to this some local volunteering work, this can substain a good fishery on the Vedder without extra money from the government. And of course, we can cut down fishing pressure on the Vedder  with a stamp requirement. Why didn't some fishing organizations push for this idea?

The river can not just be pumped full of fish as they will then impact the wild fish of the river. The hatchery fish are there to be killed, not to spawn with wild fish or in the wild on their own.


What do you guys see wrong with the chilliwack system anyways? It has the largest return of steelhead in BC so sees the most pressure. I think people here are saying there's problems because they are having problems catching fish all of a sudden. Everyone is quick to point at the system as the problem, when actually it's the angler that is more of the problem. This year has had a lower return than previous years for sure, but anglers haven't changed their game to get fish. They just fish the same water like they would with a huge return (last year) and just expect the fish to be there. With the growing number of anglers fishing the chilliwack system each year there is more and more better anglers on the water, so if you're not upping your game you're going to get fewer and fewer fish. The only problem really wrong with the system is the clay banks, yes some stabilization would be amazing and keep the water clear but omg the crowds at the slaughter holes would be TERRIBLE in salmon season during low water. Im positive the hatchery would never say no to more money to buy some new equipment maybe maintain the structures or vehicles but the hatchery doesnt really have a say on the number of fish they can produce (that I am aware of anyways, please someone correct me if I am wrong) I'm sure there is a cap on the number of fish they are allowed to produce which is set out by a regional biologist. Also if all the brood fish are small fish then that means less eggs for production and results in less fish returning.