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[Fisherbob]

What about the US farmed Atlantic salmon in Washington and Maine? Is Monterey Bay fine with them TB?

[aquapaloosa]

Why on earth would the U.S. de market anything of theirs. Apparently they missed those 2 US locations that farm atlantics in net pens. Not listed on there page. I'm not surprised either.
In fact they seem to have put a blanket clearance (best choice)of any closed containment salmon facility around the world. Wow.   Seems to lack due process.

Let's not forget that these are American foundations funding these clever lowbrow marketing tactics which benefit American itnterests. 

http://www.seafoodwatch.org/seafood-recommendations/groups/salmon?method=farmed&q=Salmon,%20Farmed

[troutbreath]

http://www.fishwatch.gov/seafood_profiles/species/salmon/species_pages/atlantic_salmon_farmed.htm

"The U.S. Atlantic salmon aquaculture industry has grown to some 12,000 tons (live weight) per year produced in Maine (around $78 million) and around 8,000 tons in Washington State (roughly $52 million). The United States also imports over 280,000 tons a year of salmon, mainly from Canada, Scotland, Norway, and Chile."

So basically their raising less salmon than one of our fishfarms here sends to the dump because were less stringent. What's your point?

[Fisherbob]

http://www.fishwatch.gov/seafood_profiles/species/salmon/species_pages/atlantic_salmon_farmed.htm

"The U.S. Atlantic salmon aquaculture industry has grown to some 12,000 tons (live weight) per year produced in Maine (around $78 million) and around 8,000 tons in Washington State (roughly $52 million). The United States also imports over 280,000 tons a year of salmon, mainly from Canada, Scotland, Norway, and Chile."

So basically their raising less salmon than one of our fishfarms here sends to the dump because were less stringent. What's your point?

Is your point, Canada should raise them the same as the US TB? Btw you forgot about the 1.5 billion salmon that are farmed in Alaska each year.

[troutbreath]

Is your point, Canada should raise them the same as the US TB? Btw you forgot about the 1.5 billion salmon that are farmed in Alaska each year.

I kinda think your catching on though I'm not sure if your reading everything correctly:

http://www.undercurrentnews.com/2014/09/24/for-us-seafood-entrepreneur-betting-on-us-inland-farmed-salmon/

So yes that's my point:

"Homestead, Florida, capable of producing 30,000 metric tons a year of whole gutted Atlantic salmon for the US market."

Read the article first comment second this time bawb, these fish are being raised:

"Andreassen aims to build Atlantic Sapphire into a leading land-based salmon farm over the next five or six years"

Glad to walk you through it again if you get tripped up. I can't see your point on the Alaskan fishery though, you seem to think their in some big net pen? 1.5 billion fish in a net pen gebus slice bawb.

[shuswapsteve]

I believe the key word is them not saying "can't" harm wild stocks. So words like can or could show a likelihood of affecting wild fish stocks. Surely you can follow the train of thought there...can, could as opposed to can't, wouldn't.

Anyway on the upside:

http://www.undercurrentnews.com/2014/10/27/land-based-farmed-salmon-gets-monterey-bay-aquarium-green-rating/

"All other farmed salmon, from Norway, Scotland, Canada or Chile, is rated as “avoid” by the Monterey Bay Aquarium."

Monterey Bay's Seafood Watch Program seems like a good thing but if you look into it more they don't really practice what they preach.  Monterey Bay's aquarium contains their animals in an open system where their wastewater is discharged unfiltered back into the bay.  This discharge includes pathogens, chemicals and medicines.  The species of shrimp they feed their aquarium animals are red-listed by the aquarium's own program.

On the other hand, BC fish farms don't seem to meet Seafood Watch's Program criteria:
Due to the open nature of the production system which provides no barrier to infection from environmental pathogens that then subsequently require treatment with antibiotics highly important to human health remains a fundamental weakness of the system…

Seems kind of hypocritical to me. Their own practices don't even meet the grade.

http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/monterey-bay-aquarium-applying-for-waste-impact-exception/

If you were to objectively use the Program's own scoring system on Alaskan ranched salmon they would get a bad grade.  Not really surprising considering that ranched salmon are artificially propagated in a hatchery and raised in ocean net pens for part of the their life (fed pellet food and antibiotics when required...similar to BC fish farms).  Although there is growing concern and literature regarding the potential impact of releasing billions of ranched salmon (by Russia, Japan and the US) on wild stocks, the aquarium's Seafood Watch Program doesn't even mention it as a concern. This all gets hidden because in the Program's eyes the status of Alaskan salmon stocks (augmented by large hatchery operations which they admit) are a low conservation concern. On top of that, Alaskan ranched salmon are marketed as "wild Alaskan salmon" when really they are not.  Smoke and mirrors and some good marketing gives them a good grade from the Program. 

[troutbreath]

"Although there is growing concern and literature regarding the potential impact of releasing billions of ranched salmon (by Russia, Japan and the US) on wild stocks, the aquarium's Seafood Watch Program doesn't even mention it as a concern."

If you'll allow me, this sounds like when someone mentions viruses affecting salmon in BC we get the "those virus's where always here" argument. No mention of concern about that just ya them virus's always here so why worry. What about them smoky mirrors. Hmmmm

[shuswapsteve]

"Although there is growing concern and literature regarding the potential impact of releasing billions of ranched salmon (by Russia, Japan and the US) on wild stocks, the aquarium's Seafood Watch Program doesn't even mention it as a concern."

If you'll allow me, this sounds like when someone mentions viruses affecting salmon in BC we get the "those virus's where always here" argument. No mention of concern about that just ya them virus's always here so why worry. What about them smoky mirrors. Hmmmm

Are you trying to compare viruses that are endemic to BC that have most likely been present in our waters for centuries with a major program, started in the late 80s, that involves the artificial propagation of juvenile for release into the North Pacific each year (called salmon ranching)?  Which has been around longer - viruses or Alaskan salmon ranching?  That's like comparing apples to oranges.  Not to mention that there is no evidence that an exotic salmonid disease has been introduced to BC. Concern is one thing - Fear mongering is another.  Yeah, what about those smoky mirrors, TB?  Hmmmm...... 

[troutbreath]

"with a major program, started in the late 80s, that involves the artificial propagation of juvenile for release into the North Pacific each year (called salmon ranching)?"


If you'll allow me (which I doubt) but you just said that the practice has gone on for 30 plus years. Don't you think in that time some evidence of harm to Alaska's wild fish stocks. I guess it being Halloween your just trying to scare people. It's working but maybe not the way you think. I'm concerned about how you compare your apple orange thing hmmmmmm.

[shuswapsteve]

"with a major program, started in the late 80s, that involves the artificial propagation of juvenile for release into the North Pacific each year (called salmon ranching)?"


If you'll allow me (which I doubt) but you just said that the practice has gone on for 30 plus years. Don't you think in that time some evidence of harm to Alaska's wild fish stocks. I guess it being Halloween your just trying to scare people. It's working but maybe not the way you think. I'm concerned about how you compare your apple orange thing hmmmmmm.

Of course I will allow you.......

There is quite a bit of literature now on ranched salmon impacts from not just Alaska but from Asia also. I posted this one a little while ago:

http://afs.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1577/C09-054.1

There are these ones also:
Brenner, R.E., Moffitt, S.D., and Grant, W.S. 2012. Straying of hatchery salmon in Prince William Sound, Alaska. Environmental Biology of Fishes 94(1): 179-­‐195.

Competition between Asian pink salmon (Oncorhynchus gorbuscha) and Alaskan sockeye salmon (O. nerka) in the North Pacific Ocean
http://www.sfu.ca/grow/science/resources/1273768738.pdf

Google researchers like Ruggerone, Peterman, Dorner, Irvine, Cooney and included key words like "hatchery" or "artificially enhanced" and you will find more.  Even conservations groups in BC like Watershed Watch Salmon Society and Raincoast Conservation Foundation (those organizations sound familiar, huh?) who are staunchly against open net pen aquaculture are concerned about ocean ranched salmon impacts on wild salmon.  They even want to exclude Prince William Sound fisheries from the current MSC certification:

http://www.watershed-watch.org/AlaskaSalmonBackgrounder.pdf

Not trying to scare anyone at all.  Just showing that fish farm critics shouldn't focus too hard on the BC fish farm industry and instead should look around more and take in other relevant information on other impacts.

Hmmm...let's turn the tables on you....BC salmon farming has been around for almost the same time and there was no evidence of that aquaculture in BC was the cause of decline in Fraser Sockeye, according to the Cohen Final Report.  But don't you think in that time there would have been some evidence of harm, TB?  Boo! 

[troutbreath]

I had to take my tinfoil hat off to read that last post steve. That stuff you posted can be countered with all the stuff written about open pen fish farming. I personally have nothing against fish farming just how some companies do it. If you think I would read the links you posted ....hmmmmm

Just look at how little open pen salmon farming is done in the states because of concerns. I'm sure they would do the same with the ranchin if they were as concerned cowboy. Just sayen.

[shuswapsteve]

I had to take my tinfoil hat off to read that last post steve. That stuff you posted can be countered with all the stuff written about open pen fish farming. I personally have nothing against fish farming just how some companies do it. If you think I would read the links you posted ....hmmmmm

Just look at how little open pen salmon farming is done in the states because of concerns. I'm sure they would do the same with the ranchin if they were as concerned cowboy. Just sayen.

Oh there is lots of stuff written about open net pen fish farming as well as lots of other factors like habitat loss, climate change, forestry impacts, algal blooms, non-point source contaminants and interactions with hatchery salmon.  All those factors and more, including the researchers and studies that accompanied them, were brought up at the Cohen Inquiry.  What do you think Cohen concluded about the impact of fish farming on the decline of Fraser Sockeye?  Again...it's in the report - read it. Hey, don't read those reports I posted if you don't want to.  Hey, when apocalyptic catastrophe due to salmon farming in BC is prophesized by the mothership but doesn't happen the way it's supposed to I admit it's difficult to look at other perspectives.  As for the US, they are going to get more involved in open net pen aquaculture in the near future if you care to look into it.  It goes on right now in Washington State, but that just gets swept under the rug by farm critics on this side of the border.  Smoke and mirrors.   

[troutbreath]

"It goes on right now in Washington State, but that just gets swept under the rug by farm critics on this side of the border"

So your saying either there is no anti open pen folks down south or "the mothership" is all and powerful (not to mention one heck of a sweeper).
hmmmm

I'd say your probably wrong on both counts. Since 2011 US feds have been looking into allowing open pens. Seems like they are having a slow look at it. Open penners have tried to get there dog and pony show in federal waters but have only been allowed in Washington State waters. You smoked your mirror, man. If it wasn't for all dem dead open pen raised fish down Washington state way, you never know.

[Dave]

"It goes on right now in Washington State, but that just gets swept under the rug by farm critics on this side of the border"

So your saying either there is no anti open pen folks down south or "the mothership" is all and powerful (not to mention one heck of a sweeper).
hmmmm

I'd say your probably wrong on both counts. Since 2011 US feds have been looking into allowing open pens. Seems like they are having a slow look at it. Open penners have tried to get there dog and pony show in federal waters but have only been allowed in Washington State waters. You smoked your mirror, man. If it wasn't for all dem dead open pen raised fish down Washington state way, you never know.

The only reason there aren’t more salmon farms in Washington, Oregon and California is simple really … they don’t have the unique geography we in coastal BC have that is so necessary for successful and profitable net pen salmon aquaculture … the main feature being the many islands and fiords that are protected from most major weather events, but have enough tidal influence to flush and clear net pen effluent, and equally important financially, access to reliable electrical power. The farms in Puget Sound are there for the same reasons they are in BC, to make money and employ people, but they don’t have much room to expand compared to us here in BC.

[salmonrook]

There is quite a bit of literature now on ranched salmon impacts from not just Alaska but from Asia also. I posted this one a little while ago:

Hard to compare salmon ranching to salmon farming.
 First off its a different species of salmon,Atlantic  vs a resident,endemic species
Ranching is used to boost wild stocks, if you wanted to ,you could compare Alaska's Ranching to our hatchery production ,the difference being that they are raised in different locations.
 You could say our method is more hands off as the fry and smolts are not raised in net pens as they are in ranching.
 As for reading all the links, I agree with Tb I dont want to download 4 different links to 40 page documents .If you have something to say, just say it , if we need corrobaration we will ask .
  As for the cohen report, how can you use this as evidence for anything , you keep mentioning it like it should have more evidence ,it doesnt.Wouldnt  salmon survival  be more effected when they are at a young stage.
 Anything that would affect them, IE sea lice, would affect them in there early stages not as grown adults.
 We need a study on this young stage, I am sure someone has a link to a study on that, it would be an interesting read.