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[Fisherbob]

"Today, Seafood Watch (based in Monterey Bay, California) released its updated seafood recommendation reports on farm-raised salmon in Norway, Chile, Scotland, and Canada (BC). And whad’ya know, all reports still recommend the consumer avoid farm-raised salmon from around the world — except for one US owned company that farms salmon in Chile, and one (also U.S. owned) company that raises salmon in tanks on land in Washington State (now bankrupt)."

http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/the-seafood-watch-report-on-salmon-aquaculture-in-alaska/

[salmonrook]

Nothing has changed in the industry,its still poor for our ocean  mono culture environment.
It still requires a large amount of feed to raise a fish to proper adult harvest size(salmon farming)
The method is still more prone to infection due to concentration of fish .
 They are raising a foreign species which is more prone to disease,you need  only to look at Chile's salmon farming industry,which nearly collapsed from virus outbreak.
 The fact that most of the companies have a poor track record in other countries,basically abandoning some of there farms when they caused harm to the environment or were problematic.
 I applaud Seafood Watch for bringing these issues to the fore,someone needs to watching ,in what can be a poorly regulated industry.
Not in my backyard!

[Dave]

Not in my backyard!

Sorry bud, have a look see, here and Washington, your back yard.  Salmon farms aren't going anywhere and will most likely expand here in BC, if the market dictates.
Your passion is obvious but put your efforts into things that matter, like habitat restoration and less fishing on what wild stocks we have left

[salmonrook]

Sorry should have been clearer with the the 'Not in my back yard' comment
  It was meant to mean the poor salmon farming  practices that happen in other countries that go unchecked,again you can look at Chile as an example.
 Glad people here have their eyes on it . Accountability!
I dont think people would let it happen here ,I wouldnt,thus the 'Not in my backyard" comment.
 We have one of the most beautiful pristine marine environments in the world.
 It needs protecting !

[shuswapsteve]

Nothing has changed in the industry,its still poor for our ocean  mono culture environment.

The ocean is monoculture?  Please explain.

It still requires a large amount of feed to raise a fish to proper adult harvest size(salmon farming)

What is a "large amount of feed" in your opinion.  The fact is that salmon are extremely efficient eaters - more so than growing beef, pork and chickens.

The method is still more prone to infection due to concentration of fish.

True to a certain extent, but there is a lot missing from that statement.  Fish farmers take steps to minimize stress to their fish because a stressed fish can become more prone to the harmful impacts of a pathogen.  This is not unlike wild salmon with respect to things like environmental conditions (i.e. water temperature) during migration.  Stress of environmental conditions can make the host more prone to the negative impacts of a pathogen.  Dissolved oxygen, water temperature, salinity, currents are all monitored on BC fish farms.  In addition, fish on BC fish farms are raised in low density environments (15 kg/m3 or less).

They are raising a foreign species which is more prone to disease,you need  only to look at Chile's salmon farming industry,which nearly collapsed from virus outbreak.

False. While it is true that diseases like IHN and ISA are particularly deadly to Atlantic Salmon, Pacific Salmon are just as prone to disease as a whole and perhaps much more because they aren't monitored like Atlantic Salmon in aquaculture operations and are not treated by a veterinarians for preventative action.  What is important to remember in this is that having a virus doesn't necessarily mean that the related disease will develop.  Environmental conditions and stress (Stress can be brought on by environmental conditions like water temperature.  Predation wounds and interception fisheries, such as sport, FN and commercial could be included) can determine the impact a pathogen will have on it's host. So when you are talking about how "prone" a particular fish is to disease this needs to be considered.

Let's look at Chile....ISA outbreak kills thousands and thousands of Atlantic Salmon.  ISA can be deadly to Atlantic Salmon at all life stages.  The virus (ISAv) and disease (ISA) was confirmed and the industry there suffered immensely.  Here in BC, the testing that fish farm companies do monitors for viruses like ISAv because they realize the damage it can do.  Secondly, if ISA was present on BC fish farms it would be fair to say that mortality would be substantially more (like Chile) than just a few dead silvers.  Where is the evidence of mass mortality due to ISA on BC fish farms?  Thirdly, the regulatory environment is much different than Chile.  ISAv is a federally reportable virus in Canada.

The fact that most of the companies have a poor track record in other countries,basically abandoning some of there farms when they caused harm to the environment or were problematic.
I applaud Seafood Watch for bringing these issues to the fore,someone needs to watching ,in what can be a poorly regulated industry.
Not in my backyard!

Maybe they don't have a stellar record in other countries; however, to do a fair comparison with companies doing business in other countries and those same companies here you need to look at the regulatory and reporting requirements.  I think the concept of Seafood Watch is great for consumers, but at the moment I compare them to a bunch of WWE referees who may not be the most objective and fair bunch.  Being hypocrites doesn't help their organization much either. For instance, call Alaskan ranched salmon for what they are instead of trying to market them as something they are not as well as ignore the other potential impacts that they can have on wild salmon.

[salmonrook]

The ocean is monoculture?  Please explain.

Fish farming is a monoculture environment,lacking diversity .

What is a "large amount of feed" in your opinion.  The fact is that salmon are extremely efficient eaters - more so than growing beef, pork and chickens

Sure they are efficient eaters ,but it still takes 5  times their own weight in fishmeal to produce each fish, resulting in a net loss of protein from the ocean.A large amount of feed.
 Comparing them to land based vegetable fed animal which is grain or grass fed would be incorrect. Grain and grass itself is a more natural sustainable feed.
 

False. While it is true that diseases like IHN and ISA are particularly deadly to Atlantic Salmon, Pacific Salmon are just as prone to disease

  True in the farm environment .
 Pacific salmon will get disease,sure,they are more resilent and resistant to diseases in this natural environment they have been surviving in for hundreds of years.Govt will continue to monitor conditions in the ocean to see what can affect salmon survival ,of course they cant control these conditions.We can only try to minimize human impact on them .
 

Where is the evidence of mass mortality due to ISA on BC fish farms?  Thirdly, the regulatory environment is much different than Chile.  ISAv is a federally reportable virus in Canada.

  We have had some virus outbreaks here, I will provide samples if you like tommorrow.
 Thank god that the govt and industry and organizations like Seawatch and Seachoice are reporting/monitoring this industry in Canada ,its naive to think that the same companies operating in several countries would care for our environment,they have shown their true colours in other countries.
 Agreed with you on the good regulatory environment here in Canada,we should have this level of regulation continue.
As for the Alaska Salmon ranching, I still think it is close to its claim of wild fish ,our hatchery system would probably be closer.The Alaskan ranching does produce a good portion of their fishing industries salmon harvest,clearly its needed.

[Dave]

 We have had some virus outbreaks here, I will provide samples if you like tommorrow.

As I said, I admire and respect your passion on this issue .. but unless you know something the rest of us don't ... the only virus problems farmed Atlantics in BC and Washington have faced is from IHN, endemic to the Pacific coast.  Despite what some have stated (guess who), ISA, the disease, has never been reported in BC or Washington farmed salmon, or any wild fish.

[shuswapsteve]

Fish farming is a monoculture environment,lacking diversity.

Well...I don't think the purpose of their business is to raise multiple species of salmon for diversity sakes.  It's farming.  That's like saying that a cattle ranch that just has beef cattle lacks diversity. Pacific Salmon are much more difficult to raise in aquaculture operations.  Absolon can tell you all about it, but he won't waste his time anymore explaining this again and I don't blame him.  There are a few companies raise Pacific Salmon (i.e. Creative raises Chinook Salmon) but the majority here exclusively farm Atlantic Salmon because they much better to raise in aquaculture environments.

Sure they are efficient eaters ,but it still takes 5 times their own weight in fishmeal to produce each fish, resulting in a net loss of protein from the ocean. A large amount of feed. Comparing them to land based vegetable fed animal which is grain or grass fed would be incorrect. Grain and grass itself is a more natural sustainable feed.

Yes they are efficient eaters. It takes approximately 1.2kg of food to produce 1kg of salmon.  It used to be higher (i.e. 3kg of feed to produce 1kg of salmon), but advances in nutrition have decreased that.  Livestock such as beef, pork and chickens have higher conversion ratios.  Why do you think some of the reason are that global aquaculture is growing each year?  As global aquaculture grows the fish feed companies the supply fish farms and even fish hatcheries are reducing their reliance on marine sources of feed ingredients such as fish meal and fish oil.  These companies are using alternatives such as soybean meal and canola oil.

It would not be incorrect to compare a land based animal fed grain or grass.  What do you think is involved in growing feed for terrestrial livestock?  It just doesn’t come out from thin air.  Don’t be naďve to think that there isn’t impact from growing feed for livestock.  Growing things like corn takes water which has to comes from somewhere.  With drought conditions in much of the southern US that water is not that abundant.  Secondly, if the corn isn’t organically raised it will likely involve chemical treatments (i.e. heribicides/pesiticides) to ensure that the crop is not all lost.  A little inconvenient truth is that livestock such as pigs and chickens also have feeds that contain fish meal and fish oils.

True in the farm environment .
 Pacific salmon will get disease,sure,they are more resilent and resistant to diseases in this natural environment they have been surviving in for hundreds of years.Govt will continue to monitor conditions in the ocean to see what can affect salmon survival ,of course they cant control these conditions.We can only try to minimize human impact on them.

Pacific Salmon have evolved with the endemic pathogens here over many centuries.  Resiliency and resistance may not be the same at all life stages of Pacific Salmon, environments (i.e. freshwater vs. saltwater) and can be different between species.  Again, it can be dependent on environment conditions and stress at the time.  Pacific Salmon live with pathogens their whole life in some way or another.  Not all pathogens will necessarily kill it’s host (i.e. the salmon).  Adult Pacific Salmon are more resilient to viruses like IHNv but juveniles like fry are more susceptible to the negative impacts of this virus.

We have had some virus outbreaks here, I will provide samples if you like tommorrow.

We have?  Those outbreaks never get posted on this board…lol.   Sure, provide samples from here….let’s talk about them; however, a search from this website will show previous discussions on IHN which have been beaten to death.

Thank god that the govt and industry and organizations like Seawatch and Seachoice are reporting/monitoring this industry in Canada ,its naive to think that the same companies operating in several countries would care for our environment,they have shown their true colours in other countries.

Seawatch and Seachoice are not monitoring the industry in Canada.  They take in what information they want to filter out and base their recommendations on that.  They are not fair in their rating because if they truly were it would rate Alaskan ranched salmon lower than it is now.  As for what companies do here and in other countries I think you need to point the finger more at the government agencies that create the rules that govern those companies in the first place instead of the companies themselves.  If they have shown their “true colours” in other countries then perhaps the problem resides more with government regulations in those countries and not so much with the company.

As for the Alaska Salmon ranching, I still think it is close to its claim of wild fish ,our hatchery system would probably be closer.The Alaskan ranching does produce a good portion of their fishing industries salmon harvest,clearly its needed.

Not saying that ranched salmon is a totally bad thing, but it shouldn’t be dismissed as having no impact.  Close to it’s claim as wild fish?  How so?  They are artificially propagated, raised in freshwater for part of the time then raised in ocean net-pens (fed the same fish food we have been talking about) for a period of time before being released into the ocean.

[salmonrook]

If they have shown their “true colours” in other countries then perhaps the problem resides more with government regulations in those countries and not so much with the company.

Poor ethics , responsible companies dont just  do whatever they want, they do what is right for there industry and environment .
 Nobody wants these companies doing this here,you cant blame the countries government.In a lot of causes the countries have poorly organized government regulatory bodies,this does happen in other industries as well.
 Companies should not take advantage,they should know better and be ethical in there practices.

[salmonrook]

We have?  Those outbreaks never get posted on this board…lol.   Sure, provide samples from here….let’s talk about them;

 http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/virus-sparks-quarantine-on-b-c-salmon-farm-1.1223458

 http://www.ctvnews.ca/sci-tech/fatal-virus-found-in-more-b-c-salmon-farms-1.902477

[troutbreath]

"This is the first time the virus had been detected in farmed fish in the area in more than nine years. The last time, it led to a two-year-long outbreak in which 36 farms were infected. More than 12 million salmon either died or had to be culled."
 

Well well well another news agency making up stories about fish farms. Steve likely going to come back with a long winded reply that's impossible to follow. Keeping his fingers busy defending the poor practices of shoddy foreign companies. Your all over the place with the farm thing though Steve just ask Dave.

"Thirdly, the regulatory environment is much different than Chile." I believe you meant they were morally obliged to open a fish farm in a lax environment.

[Dave]

Go back a bit and read about IHN, the virus common in Pacific's and the one that infected the farmed Atlantic's.

[troutbreath]

"More than 12 million salmon either died or had to be culled." +
"the virus common in Pacific"  =

lot's more dead fish here.
lot's more pharmaceuticals dumped here.

[Fisherbob]

http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=902639

[Dave]

http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=902639

Huh ... who knew perhaps another reason Almo is in hiding.
I used to praise Steve when he posted information so many anti's wouldn't even bother to read, but now, like absolon, I hope he saves his efforts at the keyboard for better things as this game is won.

Get over it; salmon farming in BC is here to stay and rightly so.

Until I see a post that really pisses me off, I'm done with this.  Far better stuff, habitat restoration wise, coming up