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Author Topic: Get your facts straight?  (Read 1690857 times)

Dave

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1425 on: April 04, 2015, 10:01:40 AM »

Times are tough for the anti's these days Bob  ;D 
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chris gadsden

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1426 on: April 04, 2015, 01:24:57 PM »

Times are tough for the anti's these days Bob  ;D
OK we will then have a rally today at the SS. Will get you your favorite song. ;D ;D ;D

Dave

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1427 on: April 04, 2015, 01:49:11 PM »

You're becoming a pro at this protesting game. Well at least SS sells salmon farmed in BC ;)
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shuswapsteve

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1428 on: April 04, 2015, 03:32:50 PM »

Not looking good.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/04/03/conservation-group-concerned-with-lack-of-public-notification-of-salmon-virus_n_7001352.html

"It's prudent when you have cases like this to get this out to the public.''

Why do these preliminary results have to made public, Chris?  Is there a risk to public safety here?  That would have to be "no" based on the fact that ISAv is fatal to fish but not to humans. If there was a risk to public safety at that point then I would tend to agree with opponents, but there isn't.  We are not talking about Red Tide here.  Are we told preliminary results for other livestock?

The key word is "preliminary". Final confirmation is made by the CFIA.  Carr says that "without the public knowing what's going on a lot of rumours and wildfires can happen".  True, but to a point, because preliminary results can be misinterpreted as being final results. Once results are confirmed they are released to the public, so I don't understand all the "huff" either. The fish farm did what they were supposed to do under law the by notifying government authorities; however, they went further by removing all the fish from the pen before final confirmation by the CFIA. Again, this is done because by the time final confirmation is made (up to 2 weeks) the virus could spread and cause disease outbreaks in other adjacent farms. Because the company decided to cull these fish before an order from the CFIA they are NOT eligible for compensation under legislation.

I believe the need for this information to be released at earlier stages is for opponent's desire to criticize the industry.  It's definitely not for public safety.  Opponents are wasting their time creating all this paranoia about fish viruses because they should realize that all these viruses come from the wild in the first place.  Don't go to sport fishing if you don't like pathogens in your fish.

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banx

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1429 on: April 04, 2015, 07:37:38 PM »

kudos for culling before the order to do so..... just a question, lets say a farm has suspected it has said virus, yet decides against culling until  an order because of financial reasons.  During that time there suspicions were correct and not only is there farm suffering, they have now transfered this to an adjacent farm.  is there some sort of repsonsibility on the original farm? financially or otherwise? 
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Dave

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1430 on: April 04, 2015, 07:47:08 PM »

kudos for culling before the order to do so..... just a question, lets say a farm has suspected it has said virus, yet decides against culling until  an order because of financial reasons.  During that time there suspicions were correct and not only is there farm suffering, they have now transfered this to an adjacent farm.  is there some sort of repsonsibility on the original farm? financially or otherwise?
Good point banx. I would think the CFIA would be the correct agency to answer that.
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chris gadsden

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1431 on: April 04, 2015, 08:33:00 PM »

Looking forward to the Caravan from Prince George to Victoria in May, it will certainly get the attention once again. Hoping the PAPG will stop by and ask all the questions they keep asking here but I am afraid they are too nervous to show themselves.. ;D ;D ;D

Will post the stopping places with dates, I know Kamloops is one stop SS. ;D ;D ;D

shuswapsteve

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1432 on: April 04, 2015, 10:39:09 PM »

kudos for culling before the order to do so..... just a question, lets say a farm has suspected it has said virus, yet decides against culling until  an order because of financial reasons.  During that time there suspicions were correct and not only is there farm suffering, they have now transfered this to an adjacent farm.  is there some sort of repsonsibility on the original farm? financially or otherwise?

From my understanding, if a fish farm in Canada suspects a federally reportable virus it is required by law to report it to the CFIA – even preliminary results (Fish farm companies have their own veterinary staff and do their own testing).  Following this, the CFIA would likely initiate an investigation and could require the company to increase surveillance, do more sampling, order the company to take measures to restrict movements of staff and fish in the suspected area while samples are being sent to the CFIA testing lab for confirmation.  I imagine these measures would be a preliminary response to try and contain a suspected virus before final confirmation is made; however, between the time the virus is first suspected and the confirmation results from the CFIA, the fish farm in question is not legally obligated to cull the suspect fish.

Farms don’t have to cull their fish if not order to, but from what fish farmers have learned from previous experience, it is not in their best interests to not take pre-emptive action (i.e. culling) if preliminary results are positive and then wait for final confirmation from the CFIA.  Financially, they stand to lose a lot more if the virus spreads to adjacent farms – not just to other companies but their own operations.  Confirmation results from the CFIA can take 10 to 14 days.  If action is not taken after positive preliminary results, the virus could be so widespread to other farms by the time results are back from the CFIA that more culling may be required – meaning more financial losses than if the action was taken earlier (i.e. better to cut your losses sooner than wait and lose even more).  If the CFIA tests confirm the federally reportable virus then they can require the company to take further measures (depending on the situation) which can include destroying infected fish and follow-up measures to confirm that the virus has been dealt with correctly.
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shuswapsteve

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1433 on: April 04, 2015, 10:41:39 PM »

Looking forward to the Caravan from Prince George to Victoria in May, it will certainly get the attention once again. Hoping the PAPG will stop by and ask all the questions they keep asking here but I am afraid they are too nervous to show themselves.. ;D ;D ;D

Will post the stopping places with dates, I know Kamloops is one stop SS. ;D ;D ;D

The circus is coming to town?!  Clowns and all.  Oh goody!  lol  :P ;D
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Dave

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1434 on: April 04, 2015, 11:03:45 PM »

"It's prudent when you have cases like this to get this out to the public.''

Why do these preliminary results have to made public, Chris?  Is there a risk to public safety here?  That would have to be "no" based on the fact that ISAv is fatal to fish but not to humans. If there was a risk to public safety at that point then I would tend to agree with opponents, but there isn't.  We are not talking about Red Tide here.  Are we told preliminary results for other livestock?

The key word is "preliminary". Final confirmation is made by the CFIA.  Carr says that "without the public knowing what's going on a lot of rumours and wildfires can happen".  True, but to a point, because preliminary results can be misinterpreted as being final results. Once results are confirmed they are released to the public, so I don't understand all the "huff" either. The fish farm did what they were supposed to do under law the by notifying government authorities; however, they went further by removing all the fish from the pen before final confirmation by the CFIA. Again, this is done because by the time final confirmation is made (up to 2 weeks) the virus could spread and cause disease outbreaks in other adjacent farms. Because the company decided to cull these fish before an order from the CFIA they are NOT eligible for compensation under legislation.

I believe the need for this information to be released at earlier stages is for opponent's desire to criticize the industry.  It's definitely not for public safety.  Opponents are wasting their time creating all this paranoia about fish viruses because they should realize that all these viruses come from the wild in the first place.  Don't go to sport fishing if you don't like pathogens in your fish.
Kinda thought this latest post by Chris would interest you Steve. Of course this is the usual crap trotted out by the anti salmon farmers, whenever it's a slow month/year to further their cause, and is so typical of the fear mongering regarding salmon farming in BC and Washington.
Imo, people really need to understand there are huge biological differences between farming Atlantic's where they are indigenous, (Eastern Canada, Maine, Norway, Scotland , Britain, Ireland, etc) and farming Atlantic's here.  And that's why after over 40 years of salmon farming here on the Pacific (Chile is another, totally isolated story), there are no documented cases of any disease transfer from farmed to wild fish, no interbreeding of escaped Atlantic's with Pacific's, no ISA outbreaks … nothing to show farming Atlantic's in BC or Washington has impacted long term populations of wild Pacific's.  But that doesn't seem to matter to many whose minds are made up.

Oh well, on with the show, and I'm sure lot's of people will show up to be filmed.

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banx

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1435 on: April 05, 2015, 09:29:32 AM »

From my understanding, if a fish farm in Canada suspects a federally reportable virus it is required by law to report it to the CFIA – even preliminary results (Fish farm companies have their own veterinary staff and do their own testing).  Following this, the CFIA would likely initiate an investigation and could require the company to increase surveillance, do more sampling, order the company to take measures to restrict movements of staff and fish in the suspected area while samples are being sent to the CFIA testing lab for confirmation.  I imagine these measures would be a preliminary response to try and contain a suspected virus before final confirmation is made; however, between the time the virus is first suspected and the confirmation results from the CFIA, the fish farm in question is not legally obligated to cull the suspect fish.

Farms don’t have to cull their fish if not order to, but from what fish farmers have learned from previous experience, it is not in their best interests to not take pre-emptive action (i.e. culling) if preliminary results are positive and then wait for final confirmation from the CFIA.  Financially, they stand to lose a lot more if the virus spreads to adjacent farms – not just to other companies but their own operations.  Confirmation results from the CFIA can take 10 to 14 days.  If action is not taken after positive preliminary results, the virus could be so widespread to other farms by the time results are back from the CFIA that more culling may be required – meaning more financial losses than if the action was taken earlier (i.e. better to cut your losses sooner than wait and lose even more).  If the CFIA tests confirm the federally reportable virus then they can require the company to take further measures (depending on the situation) which can include destroying infected fish and follow-up measures to confirm that the virus has been dealt with correctly.

thanks
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skaha

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1436 on: April 05, 2015, 09:35:49 AM »

kudos for culling before the order to do so..... just a question, lets say a farm has suspected it has said virus, yet decides against culling until  an order because of financial reasons.  During that time there suspicions were correct and not only is there farm suffering, they have now transfered this to an adjacent farm.  is there some sort of repsonsibility on the original farm? financially or otherwise?

--They probably own the adjacent farm so I doubt they would want to put it in danger as well. As much as I do not like fish farms (in certain areas) I believe it is in their own best interest to do the right thing.
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chris gadsden

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1437 on: April 05, 2015, 02:51:36 PM »

The circus is coming to town?!  Clowns and all.  Oh goody!  lol  :P ;D
I understand you work for one of the biggest circus's that at one time looked after our fish stocks and the environment. I hope to have an interesting letter that was written by a past employee of FOC and what has happened the past while.

Fisherbob

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1438 on: April 05, 2015, 03:33:47 PM »

Looking forward to the Caravan from Prince George to Victoria in May, it will certainly get the attention once again. Hoping the PAPG will stop by and ask all the questions they keep asking here but I am afraid they are too nervous to show themselves.. ;D ;D ;D

Will post the stopping places with dates, I know Kamloops is one stop SS. ;D ;D ;D
That would be great Chris since the ASFG seem unable to awnser questions here. :)
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Fisherbob

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1439 on: April 05, 2015, 07:33:27 PM »

An other one for the coffee shop chat. Too many cattle on the range and not enough grass?

http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/researchers-link-salmon-ranching-to-population-decline-of-sockeye-salmon/
« Last Edit: April 05, 2015, 07:56:28 PM by Fisherbob »
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