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[shuswapsteve]

Always wondered how the Namgis were going to pay for the electricity at their closed containment site ... now we know.
I agree, it's interesting who some of the "players" are in this; Willie Mitchell is a financial backer of Kuterra salmon, but also signed on to keep the Kokish River wild.  Not really blaming him but his financial advisors should have kept him in the loop I think.

Poor Willie. Where is his heart at - his investment in Kuterra salmon or the Kokish River?

Similar to the gravel removal on the Fraser, First Nations do not necessarily see eye-to-eye with environmentalists it seems.

[Fisherbob]

I doubt Namgis will have any problem covering the largest expense of closed containment and may not be all that it is cracked up to be.

http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=886949

The river flow chart data link is a must see on this link
https://www.brookfieldrenewable.com/content/asset_information/kokish_river_hydro-37702.html

Well at least we tried. I find it most interesting to see some of the "Keep the Kokish wild organizations and individuals" names have jumped on the closed containment "only" band wagon.

https://www.watershed-watch.org/2012/03/watershed-watch-signs-on-with-more-than-50-organizations-to-say-keep-the-kokish-river-wild/

I am very sorry for reposting this to a new page of facts. However I feel that there are a few people that are too lazy to scroll back or answer questions. This repost is for them.

[GordJ]

I am very sorry for reposting this to a new page of facts. However I feel that there are a few people that are too lazy to scroll back or answer questions. This repost is for them.

Too lazy? There are many reasons for me not wanting to re-read any of your little "who can post the most links" contest but I can assure that laziness is not one of them. And for anyone to believe that either position has a monopoly on "facts" is idiotic.
Normally I wouldn't use words like idiotic but I guess I was just too lazy to frame my response properly.

[Fisherbob]

It is a fact that you need power to run closed containment. In this case it is a run of the river power plant for it.

[banx]

I am very sorry for reposting this to a new page of facts. However I feel that there are a few people that are too lazy to scroll back or answer questions. This repost is for them.

Too lazy? There are many reasons for me not wanting to re-read any of your little "who can post the most links" contest but I can assure that laziness is not one of them. And for anyone to believe that either position has a monopoly on "facts" is idiotic.
Normally I wouldn't use words like idiotic but I guess I was just too lazy to frame my response properly.

ya no $hit. I actually went fishing yesterday bob. something I don't think you've done since maybe 1974. when grandpappi took you out with a worm and a stick.

I figured I'd take a page out of your play book, and post links while on company time. 


your sea lice link was from 2007. and the 'science' from 2005.... it's 2015. 2013 was a great run, 2015 not so much.

also, a classic highlight, funded by the Canadian Aquaculture Industry Alliance, a national industry association, headquartered in ottawa.  It represents the interests of canadian aquaculture operators, feed companies, suppliers.... standard procedure bobby.

" it remains debatable whether the transfer from the farmed salmon to the wild salmon could be on a sufficient scale to have an impact".... "we don't know if there is sufficient enough transfer." Dr. Kevin Butterworth.  That to me is sound science, very, very sound.

and now, you will say that well, these refugee fish have no lice when they enter the ocean... it's the wild that gives it to them.  Then wouldn't you want to protect your investment by removing them?  does that make sense?  if you can't predict future wouldn't you want to ensure your investment is safe?

why are you such a strong supporter of pens bob? what do you have to lose? I honestly doubt you even made a donation to morton and it is a front for you.  If you did, it would have been tax deductible, so maybe you actually kept it for your tax records.  As I do with my tax donations..... a photo would be appreciated..... you know, so people here actually feel your legit. 

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/anti-environmental-opposition-to-gmo-salmon/

[Fisherbob]

Where has farmed salmon in Washington and BC harmed wild salmon Banx?

[banx]

answer my questions. or, scroll back 47 pages...... it's there. or are you too lazy? 

[banx]

It is a fact that you need power to run closed containment. In this case it is a run of the river power plant for it.

So open pens have no power on shore?  Everything done with aa batteries and flashlights?  the pumps are run by hamsters on wheels?  Candle light?

I don;t see your point with a closed system requiring electricity.   

[Fisherbob]

If you are asking me if I Kill wild salmon, then yes I do. These days I feel that farming takes the stress off the wild and leaves more for us sport fishers to enjoy. We are very lucky to still have the opportunity to do so compared to other parts of the world that have been fished out. I have just winterized my boat and have her tied up nice and snug till March. So no, I didn't go fishing this weekend. Great Grey Cup though.
  I do take the time to go back and read Banx. I still have not found your boogie man in the closet. Perhaps you can educate me by showing me where farmed salmon harm the wild.     

[Fisherbob]

So open pens have no power on shore?  Everything done with aa batteries and flashlights?  the pumps are run by hamsters on wheels?  Candle light?

I don;t see your point with a closed system requiring electricity.

Do open net pens use pumps? I thought they used tide flow. Guess I may be wrong. Sorry Banx, I can not answer that. Maybe some one that has visited a farm can tell us.
 Are you fine with run of the river power to run closed containment? That seems to be the case for the Namgis.
 

[banx]

so there's nothing on shore then bob? no structures, no supplies, no power? no environmental impact at all. there is zero infrastructure supporting an open pen facility?  is that what your saying?

theres a link there bob, its from a study done in the 90's. i'm sure you have the time to browse through.  i'm not paid to post links like you though.....

I like how you used the term "us sports fishers"  brilliant.

i'm sure the tax receipt to morton is probably onboard your boat right? put away for the winter......

my understanding would be that yes an open net pen would require a set of several pumps, and holding tanks. at least from what i've read. because my understanding is that when the fish get 'sick' they are sometimes removed from the ocean to provide treatment.... that would require  some sort of either moving water via circulation pumps, or an air pump providing oxygen to said tank.

is that how it works on your farm? or do you have a different setup? some pictures of how things are done on your farm would be great. probably better than google images.

[Fisherbob]

It looks like you may have let me get under your skin a bit. Sorry for that Banx. But Really, I do not see the need for you to make up stories in an attempt to prove your point of view.  How ever, all the power to you if it makes you feel better.

[Dave]

Here is a good synopsis of closed containment salmon farming recommendations for Canada.  I have only browsed this paper but from what I did read it seems all it would take is money to get them going.  GM fish might even make it economical.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/content/hoc/Committee/411/FOPO/Reports/RP5994887/foporp03/foporp03-e.pdf

[salmonrook]

I read the media articles related to that link you provided.  Surprisingly, I found them mostly informative and interesting because usually the reporting on these issues is kind of poor (in my opinion).  I do not see the conflict of interest you apparently observe.  Personally, I have nothing against closed containment and do not wish them to fail – actually the opposite.  Namgis officials make good points about controlling conditions, better able to avoid diseases from the wild, grow fish at a faster rate, and the recycling of waste into things like biofuel.  However, at this stage it is difficult for them because their operations are not at a stage that can meet the growing demand for seafood protein which increases more and more each year.  This is why I believe Aqua Bounty will eventually find stable markets for their genetically modified Atlantic Salmon.  Those fish grow even faster, needing less feed, and are raised in closed containment.  What was interesting to read was that the Federal government was one of the funding sources for the Namgis project which opponents of open net pen aquaculture do not really mention.

This is a successful way to farm in my view, they are on board with working to watch what environmental issues they can cause and are careful to mitigate them. Because of this ,I know that this salmon is popular with the restaurant trade because they can truthfully claim that its farmed sustainably .The other farm operation is Creative Salmon ,they farm chinook, but like Kuterra they have their eyes on the waste and impacts on the environment .This is the better way .But unfortunately its hard to beat a fresh wild sockeye for flavour, imo.

[salmonrook]

Poor Willie. Where is his heart at - his investment in Kuterra salmon or the Kokish River?

Similar to the gravel removal on the Fraser, First Nations do not necessarily see eye-to-eye with environmentalists it seems.

Wille Mitchell is an avid fisherman and like me, wants to see the environment protected so that the wild stocks have a chance to live on for generations. Kuterra farm is a great idea,takes the pressure off wild fish in a sustainable manner .But clearly your inference that the run of river project is paying for the fish farm ??
 Surely the capital cost is paid off over years of the profits from the product.