Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Fisherbob]

Another good post FB.  I have eaten lots of wild salmon and quite a few farmed Atlantic's, mainly from Costco ... definitely a texture difference, Atlantic's being fattier and a bit softer.  But, IMO, a frozen Pacific salmon tastes about the same as a fresh Atlantic. Both damn good!

Thanks Dave. Have to agree with you. I like to smoke and pickle my catch and just lately found farmed is great on the Bbq. I haven't had a chance to try this recipe yet, but it looks good . 

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LjgOcJoyJto&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DLjgOcJoyJto

[troutbreath]

"I like to smoke and pickle my catch and just lately found farmed is great on the Bbq."

Your talking about pork right? 

[Fisherbob]

"I like to smoke and pickle my catch and just lately found farmed is great on the Bbq."

Your talking about pork right? 

You are so smart TB perhaps you can answer these questions. I don't think Morton can or will.

 http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/?p=579

[banx]

come on bob..... reading anything from "farmfreshsalmon.org"  is like believing everything on FOX news.

do you have anything not paid for by a farm?   

the whole reason I posted that "your call is important to us" link  is because your rebuttals all come from a lobbyist point of view.  These farms are employing public relations companies.

if your paying someone to help you with publlic relations. you are doing something wrong.  that is a fact.  and quite possibly the only fact on these 27 some odd pages.

farming is needed. I agree, but telling anyone here that you are doing it right. is as close to a full on lie as possible.

There are thousands of people like me, who 'disagree' whith what is taking place in our oceans, but will say nothing in a  thread like this and may only exercise there beliefs by not buying your product.

very few people have the time, resources available, or the intelligence to debate you on these issues.  I do appluad that few that try and express their beliefs.

the only thing I can say is that when you hit 'post' understand that most of the information you are trying to get across is treated as probably some of the most fertile manure this side of the rockies.

farms are not the sole contributor to the decline of salmon stocks.  but your  hands are very dirty, so stop telling us they are clean.

[Dave]

banx, the two commentors in the link supplied by fisherbob have nothing to do farmfreshsalmon.org. Which comment do you disagree with?
With a bit of sluething you should be able to determine one of the writers. Trust me, he knows his stuff and is not involved in salmon farming at all.

[banx]

sorry, I'm talking about the multitude of posts starting with "frshfarmedsalmon" or "farmalliance" or "farmingisgood" etc etc etc it was a generalization... I should have been more specific.  I'm not talkin about shushwapsteve either.  or the actual article condemning salmon confidential.

just every retort is supported by www.freshfarmsalmon.com

I'm not a morton fan or supporter. I read the technical papers and understand them (most haha).  My only issue is that the 'science' used, if I can be so general does not take it into account the future.  what I mean by this is that there is always a potential for mutation.  it's why we have thumbs.

saying a virus won't jump from atlantic to pacific salmon is being optimistic to say the least.  I'm not a scientist but I am very aware of the fact that as humans have developed technology we have been wrong about a lot of things.  We have had several examples in recent years regarding virus mutations and its ability to jump species...... Also saying a fish who carries a virus is not suffering from the disease is an interesting way to play down the severity of it.

That is like saying someone who has HSPV but is not suffering an outbreak, doesn't really have herpes. 

with so much to lose, I really hope the 'science' holds up.... but it's tough to believe when the research is paid for by a special interest group. 

You can see the full circle in cattle farming, where we pumped our cows with corn and gave ourselves heart disease. kept them packed in pens, pumped them with hormones and antibiotics. now cows are starting to eat grass (what a shocker) and surprise surprise the meat does not contain the same bad cholesterol and fats that corn fed cows have. maybe you know someone argentinian and they can elaborate more on this....

so, if you farm things in a way thats basically wrong, such as the way things are done now in open pens. stuff is going to go wrong, the animals, in this case, fish, will get sick, the product will be of a lesser quality and they will then need to employ someone to tell me how good their product really is. 

it's incredibly tough to support open pen fish farming as it is taking place right now.
and like I said farms can't be the sole reason for salmon stock collapses.  just a variable in the equation. and one that should be controlled.
 

[Dave]

sorry, I'm talking about the multitude of posts starting with "frshfarmedsalmon" or "farmalliance" or "farmingisgood" etc etc etc it was a generalization... I should have been more specific.  I'm not talkin about shushwapsteve either.  or the actual article condemning salmon confidential.

just every retort is supported by www.freshfarmsalmon.com

I'm not a morton fan or supporter. I read the technical papers and understand them (most haha).  My only issue is that the 'science' used, if I can be so general does not take it into account the future.  what I mean by this is that there is always a potential for mutation.  it's why we have thumbs.

saying a virus won't jump from atlantic to pacific salmon is being optimistic to say the least.  I'm not a scientist but I am very aware of the fact that as humans have developed technology we have been wrong about a lot of things.  We have had several examples in recent years regarding virus mutations and its ability to jump species...... Also saying a fish who carries a virus is not suffering from the disease is an interesting way to play down the severity of it.

That is like saying someone who has HSPV but is not suffering an outbreak, doesn't really have herpes. 

with so much to lose, I really hope the 'science' holds up.... but it's tough to believe when the research is paid for by a special interest group. 

You can see the full circle in cattle farming, where we pumped our cows with corn and gave ourselves heart disease. kept them packed in pens, pumped them with hormones and antibiotics. now cows are starting to eat grass (what a shocker) and surprise surprise the meat does not contain the same bad cholesterol and fats that corn fed cows have. maybe you know someone argentinian and they can elaborate more on this....

so, if you farm things in a way thats basically wrong, such as the way things are done now in open pens. stuff is going to go wrong, the animals, in this case, fish, will get sick, the product will be of a lesser quality and they will then need to employ someone to tell me how good their product really is. 

it's incredibly tough to support open pen fish farming as it is taking place right now.
and like I said farms can't be the sole reason for salmon stock collapses.  just a variable in the equation. and one that should be controlled.

Good post.  Like all farming practices, they evolve and get better over time.  Salmon farming is really in it's infancy here in BC and improvements are happening regularly. Certainly these farms aren't perfect but what animal husbandry efforts, anywhere, are?  Salmon farms aren't going away from BC and imo they are being controlled to the best of todays technology. The fact that there has been no documented incident of Pacific salmon being negatively impacted by farmed Atlantics in over 30 years here in BC tells me salmon farmers are doing the best they can. If they did otherwise they would be out of business.
 
Personally I am far more concerned with the other variables you alluded to.

[troutbreath]

Dave I,m pretty sure you meant salmon farming is being done by infants in BC. Doing it the cheap wreckless way that provides the most payback.

I make some typos too so were not all perfect.

[Dave]

Dave I,m pretty sure you meant salmon farming is being done by infants in BC. Doing it the cheap wreckless way that provides the most payback.

I make some typos too so were not all perfect.

Lol! missed you!

[Fisherbob]

Honesty in a nut shell

http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/how-dishonest-fictional-%E2%80%9Cdocumentary%E2%80%9D-salmon-confidential

[Novabonker]

just every retort is supported by www.freshfarmsalmon.com



 

And therein lies the crux of the "reports". Self serving propaganda - have any of the supporting firms of that website ever been caught telling whoppers or for that matter, any of the feedlots? Think hard and google hard before you answer....... Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice?Not going to happen. I ain't that stupid.

[banx]

I would expect that the people you are talking about have all told a fib or two

[shuswapsteve]

Also saying a fish who carries a virus is not suffering from the disease is an interesting way to play down the severity of it.

Wrong.  It is not playing down the severity of it at all.  As mentioned many times already, it is stating a reality that happens in biological systems.  The problem is that fish farm critics are refusing to try to understand the difference between having a virus and having a disease.  They use the two interchangeably and that is wrong.  They also fail to understand that adult Pacific Salmon can carry a host of endemic pathogens most of their lives which may not prove fatal.  On the spawning grounds, a salmon carcass can have many pathogens inside, but trying to say that one caused the death over another is often very difficult.  Many of these endemic pathogens were documented for the public in Cohen Technical Report #1.  The interaction between pathogen, host and environment is not just a simple formula where if a fish gets a virus then it is instantly doomed.  Actually, the pathogen itself may not be the overriding factor and definitely not the only factor.  Environmental conditions can play a big role; however, even when you think certain environmental conditions will be ripe for disease it is not obvious in the success of spawn which can still end up being very good.

with so much to lose, I really hope the 'science' holds up.... but it's tough to believe when the research is paid for by a special interest group.

What research are you referring to?  When it comes to PRV and HSMI (in the link Bob supplied) did you know that much of the information I obtained was taken from Ms Morton's own blog and the Salmonconfidential website?  Are you suggesting that those studies (mostly from Norway) that Morton cites and uses as evidence for her theories on PRV and HSMI are paid for by a special interest group?  Do you believe it is important to mention all relevant information in these studies in order to provide the public with all the facts - not just certain ones that may align with one's own opinion?

so, if you farm things in a way thats basically wrong, such as the way things are done now in open pens. stuff is going to go wrong, the animals, in this case, fish, will get sick, the product will be of a lesser quality and they will then need to employ someone to tell me how good their product really is.

Survival rates of farmed salmon in BC is between 90 and 95%.  It is in the best interests of the farmers to optimize the health of their fish as much as possible.  It is no different from land-based agriculture where farmers/ranchers optimize the health of their cattle or crops.  Because the majority of it is exported outside of our borders it does not make sense to a produce fish of lesser quality especially when there is competition elsewhere.

[banx]

Steve, yes I am very aware of the difference between disease and a virus.  Even though a salmon may suffer from many pathogens.  Those pathogens were present in the natural environment for millennia.  The pathogens contributed to the environment by the precence Atlantic salmon is new.  And the presence of Atlantic salmon can be controlled.

I had already mentioned that I don't support Morton, she was proven to be a stretcher of the truth.  And if the science was paid for by a special interest group it can be taken with a grain of truth if it comes from either side of the argument..... I also don't have the time to go through the hundreds of links being tossed around this forum.  But my main concern was a paper ensuring that virus mutation could not happen.  It's probably a few pages back and starts with www.freshfarmedsalmon.com  I would expect

The real fact. And Steve you can take it as you wish. But the fact that farms employ public relations companies means they are doing something wrong.  And a 95% survival rate is great.....because they are pumped full of drugs.  The meat is of a lesser quality. And always will be because it's unnatural.  This applies to beef, chicken, pork etc etc

I really don't know how people can be stewards of the environment and support open pen farms.  Because as a sport fisher, you generally respect your environment and care about its future.  Maybe you have a son in law working for a farm, or possibly stock options in a pension. And doing the best you can sounds like an excuse.  I think yoga said it best. Do or do not. There is no try

[Fisherbob]

Fish farming takes over beef.

http://www.earth-policy.org/plan_b_updates/2013/update114