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Author Topic: Get your facts straight?  (Read 1681030 times)

Fisherbob

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #540 on: November 30, 2013, 06:04:49 PM »

More Morton drivel by Vivian Krause. You having nightmares about her when yur awake now, bawb? Try the bong for self medication. I'm sure Morton does
Please feel free to add to the debate by posting facts that have not already been debunked. :)
« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 06:31:42 PM by Fisherbob »
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moosebreath

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #541 on: November 30, 2013, 06:38:40 PM »

Facts about what, bawb?  Are you babbling about Morton again? For the hard of comprehending, that means "grasping mentally", bawb, I could care less about Morton or tree huggers. You didn't self medicate did you?
Here is a link worth watching.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/coachs-corner/don-cherry-wants-coach-s-corner-to-remain-status-quo-1.2446703
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Fisherbob

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #542 on: November 30, 2013, 06:43:13 PM »

Please feel free to add to the debate by posting facts that have not already been debunked. :)
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moosebreath

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #543 on: November 30, 2013, 10:12:34 PM »

I wonder what every ones opinion of Brian Riddell President and CEO of the Pacific Salmon Foundation?

http://ohboy.ca/secretscience/index.php/dr-brian-riddell/
« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 10:38:53 AM by moosebreath »
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Dave

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #544 on: December 01, 2013, 04:56:09 PM »

IMO, one of the best fish scientists on the planet.  He was my section head for a while and was considered by his peers as brilliant.
He is far more valuable to the fishery resource in his present position than he was as a highly esteemed DFO scientist.
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dnibbles

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #545 on: December 01, 2013, 05:11:18 PM »

I wonder what every ones opinion of Brian Riddell President and CEO of the Pacific Salmon Foundation?

http://ohboy.ca/secretscience/index.php/dr-brian-riddell/

Very very intelligent man. Used to also work in his group until he did the smart thing and jumped ship. His talk on the sea lice issue in the Broughton that he gave in 2009 was awesome. Spoiler alert: his work suggested poor science by the sea lice folks (AlMo et al).
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moosebreath

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #546 on: December 01, 2013, 06:12:58 PM »

Then you must be aware of this article...

http://opinion.financialpost.com/2010/06/23/fp-letters-junk-journalism/

"We are writing this letter together to put an end to the numerous attempts to fabricate scientific discord associated with the affects of aquaculture on wild Pacific salmon. The Canadian public will only benefit from abundant wild salmon and aquaculture if they have accurate information. Mr. Corcoran’s exaggerations and misinformation are more damaging to the fish farm industry than the science he lashes out at in his column.

Every new industry matures as it develops and aquaculture does represent potential value to our coastal communities. But it must not jeopardize our wild Pacific salmon. Indeed, nowhere else in the world has open-net pen aquaculture existed with such an abundance of wild salmon, as present in British Columbia. To ensure wild Pacific salmon are sustained the ecological footprint of fish farming must meet the biological requirements of wild salmon. Mr. Corcoran seems to want to place the blame for the current situation on activists, but his conclusions are inaccurate and more fishy than any of the science he attempts to discredit.

For the record, first and foremost the claim that sea lice from fish farms in British Columbia were contaminating wild pink salmon is true. Without treatment for sea lice, the farms in the Broughton Archipelago were proven to be the major source of lice infecting juvenile pink salmon. The treatment of lice on farmed salmon, a plan developed through collaborative research in the archipelago, successfully reduced infection and proved that the farms were the primary source of infection. There really is no debate on this point.

Mr. Corcoran says, The great salmon farming scare proved to be a false alarm. This is incorrect. Declines in levels of sea lice are the result of a management (treatment) plan enacted in the Broughton Archipelago since 2007. Implementation of that plan is consistent with improved returns of pink salmon to the Broughton Archipelago in 2009.

Mr. Corcoran employs deliberately inflammatory language. As the primary author (Riddell) of the federal fisheries article rebutting the December 2007 extinction prediction article in Science, I have never referred to flawed science, cherry-picked data, or fudging the data. To infer attribution of these terms to me (Riddell) is totally inappropriate.

To his credit Mr. Corcoran has retained some important messages. I (Riddell) am concerned about the salmon farming experience around the world and I do question how environmentally justifiable open-net pen salmon farms are. Mr. Corcoran quotes Dr. Ben Koop, who rightly says science takes a lot of different perspectives and [then] combines and debates. This is exactly what has been occurring on the West Coast of Canada vis-a-vis aquaculture. We, as a community of scientists, acted and initiated the science that triggered management that has temporarily reduced sea lice. We did not wait to see if the extinction prediction was true or false. We are aware of strong indications worldwide that the current treatment measures may fail if or when the lice become drug-resistant. Therefore, the people involved must continue to develop solutions of which closed containment seems to be an increasingly attractive option."

 Dr. Brian E Riddell, CEO, Pacific Salmon Foundation. Alexandra Morton, executive director, Raincoast Research Society
 
Notice this is co-authored by A. Morton and Riddell refered to Morton in the video.
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Fisherbob

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moosebreath

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #548 on: December 01, 2013, 07:27:44 PM »

"I have donated to Dr. Morton's cause witch makes me fell like I am helping the cause of saving our salmon. I have not received any tax receipts. I was told however that the money goes to educating the public. I think there is no way Dr. Morton will say and do what ever it takes to continue generating profits. Dr. Morton is the most honest person I know."

Your words bawb.....lol x 10....and you wanna be my latex salesman.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 07:32:54 PM by moosebreath »
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Fisherbob

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #549 on: December 01, 2013, 08:26:11 PM »

You will simply just have to excuse me for no longer being a loyal listener on your side of the fence. Junk science for donations and why. :)
http://opinion.financialpost.com/2011/06/13/terence-corcoran-lipstick-apples-sperm-counts/
« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 08:57:18 PM by Fisherbob »
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dnibbles

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #550 on: December 01, 2013, 08:58:19 PM »

Then you must be aware of this article...

http://opinion.financialpost.com/2010/06/23/fp-letters-junk-journalism/



Mr. Corcoran employs deliberately inflammatory language. As the primary author (Riddell) of the federal fisheries article rebutting the December 2007 extinction prediction article in Science, I have never referred to flawed science, cherry-picked data, or fudging the data. To infer attribution of these terms to me (Riddell) is totally inappropriate.


Hmmm, ok my bad I guess. He gave a talk "rebutting the December 2007 extinction prediction", and here is the link to his written comment on the same topic, the 2007 Krkosek et al Science paper. http://www.sciencemag.org/content/322/5909/1790.2.full.pdf
It's a short read. This is pulled directly from the text.

"Krkošek et al. overstated the risks to wild pink salmon from sea lice and salmon farming. Furthermore, their predictions are inconsistent with recent observations of pink salmon returns to the Broughton Archipelago. Their alarming statements of extinction of pink salmon in the BA are only possible with highly selective use of the available data and extrapolation of their results to all pink salmon in the BA."

Riddell was the lead author. I greatly respect his opinions and his work.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 09:00:00 PM by dnibbles »
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dnibbles

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #551 on: December 01, 2013, 08:59:07 PM »

.
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moosebreath

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #552 on: December 01, 2013, 09:31:00 PM »

Hmmm, ok my bad I guess. He gave a talk "rebutting the December 2007 extinction prediction", and here is the link to his written comment on the same topic, the 2007 Krkosek et al Science paper. http://www.sciencemag.org/content/322/5909/1790.2.full.pdf
It's a short read. This is pulled directly from the text.

"Krkošek et al. overstated the risks to wild pink salmon from sea lice and salmon farming. Furthermore, their predictions are inconsistent with recent observations of pink salmon returns to the Broughton Archipelago. Their alarming statements of extinction of pink salmon in the BA are only possible with highly selective use of the available data and extrapolation of their results to all pink salmon in the BA."

Riddell was the lead author. I greatly respect his opinions and his work.

Good stuff dnibbles. I really like this quote from Riddell...

"For the record, first and foremost the claim that sea lice from fish farms in British Columbia were contaminating wild pink salmon is true. Without treatment for sea lice, the farms in the Broughton Archipelago were proven to be the major source of lice infecting juvenile pink salmon. The treatment of lice on farmed salmon, a plan developed through collaborative research in the archipelago, successfully reduced infection and proved that the farms were the primary source of infection. There really is no debate on this point."

Do we know each other?  ;)
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shuswapsteve

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #553 on: December 01, 2013, 11:07:13 PM »

Run out of mud so you sling the "he must be gay" card? Wow - really? That's pretty pathetic Steve and a sad commentary on you, not me. I had a gay family member that put up with that kind of garbage throughout the time he was here and ended up taking his life. You have no idea how that affected his immediate family and those around him or you wouldn't reach into the toilet for that turd. I feel a mixture of sorrow and disgust for you and your need to display your (now) obviously bigoted and usually elitist foolishness as well as that massive ego. What's next Steve? Are you going to slur people because of gender or race? If you don't like others POV, that's just too bad, because we'll always be here to raise concerns and question glaring holes in the feedlot propaganda stream and those that enable it. I'm not going anywhere, neither are the others that don't buy into your philosophy.

Haven't you figured out by now that if you act like a fool you will be treated like one?  My comments to you have nothing to do with not wanting to hear other peoples' POV.  As for raising concerns and questions that is laughable because you seem more interested in being a clown than being genuinely interested in the topic.  What is sad is that you constantly drag up some sympathetic, heart-wrenching story to justify your rude behaviour on this board.
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