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[shuswapsteve]

Why would a net penner use expensive antibiotics? They would cheap out. I think you already know that and are trying to be a smartypants. When your working at the pen do the math.

Time to tap out, TB.   

[Fisherbob]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n7y_Vn3L2yU

[salmonrook]

All the way to Australia, Tasmania no less to find a farm that has got the rubber stamp from the WWF.
 You've been busy
Any farms in b c got this ?

[Fisherbob]

http://www.eenews.net/stories/1060009321

[banx]

this is a way better read from that article.  so much information. both supporting and condemning the practice of aquaculture.

http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2013/pdfs/2013_PriceandMorris_MarineCageCultureandTheEnvironment%285%29.pdf

and they even quoted morton on page 102.   

my favourite part...........

 " Studies estimate that as much as 75-99%
of the antibiotic administered is released into the
environment (Goldburg and Triplett 1997, Scott
2004, Armstrong et al. 2005, Pittenger et al. 2007).

and another gem

 "Studies have found antibiotics present in wild
fish feeding on feces and food originating from
marine farms (Fortt and Buschmann 2007).
This may serve as a pathway for development of
antibacterial resistance within wild populations
(Rigos et al. 2004).


on a side note. pretty interesting how sharks are spotted hanging around farms for 2.5 years and not migrating.... and some countries banning the 'artisinal' fishermen from fishing within x distance of a farm.  even though the farms are attracting species.

and as hard as it is to type this I gotta give the BC farms some credit.  going from over 600 grams of antibiotics per 1 metric tonne of fish in 1995 ... they are now down to just about 100g of antibiotics per metric tonne (2008) which might be less now...

but that still 75% to 99% going into the environment.  according to ocean wise (http://www.oceanwise.ca/seafood/salmon/atlantic-salmon) 85,000 tonnes of salmon were produced in BC last year.... so 8500kg's of antibiotics in one year. so 18,739 lbs of drugs in a year dumped into the ocean   


had to edit the oceanwise link

[troutbreath]

http://www.davidsuzuki.org/publications/downloads/2005/Shellfish_Summary.pdf

I don't know why these guy's are not taken to task over years of poor practices.

Shoe's likely to dispute the antibiotic thing again. But that's his oyster.

[Dave]

this is a way better read from that article.  so much information. both supporting and condemning the practice of aquaculture.

http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2013/pdfs/2013_PriceandMorris_MarineCageCultureandTheEnvironment%285%29.pdf

and they even quoted morton on page 102.   

my favourite part...........

 " Studies estimate that as much as 75-99%
of the antibiotic administered is released into the
environment (Goldburg and Triplett 1997, Scott
2004, Armstrong et al. 2005, Pittenger et al. 2007).

and another gem

 "Studies have found antibiotics present in wild
fish feeding on feces and food originating from
marine farms (Fortt and Buschmann 2007).
This may serve as a pathway for development of
antibacterial resistance within wild populations
(Rigos et al. 2004).


on a side note. pretty interesting how sharks are spotted hanging around farms for 2.5 years and not migrating.... and some countries banning the 'artisinal' fishermen from fishing within x distance of a farm.  even though the farms are attracting species.

and as hard as it is to type this I gotta give the BC farms some credit.  going from over 600 grams of antibiotics per 1 metric tonne of fish in 1995 ... they are now down to just about 100g of antibiotics per metric tonne (2008) which might be less now...

but that still 75% to 99% going into the environment.  according to ocean wise (http://www.oceanwise.ca/seafood/salmon/atlantic-salmon) 85,000 tonnes of salmon were produced in BC last year.... so 8500kg's of antibiotics in one year. so 18,739 lbs of drugs in a year dumped into the ocean   


had to edit the oceanwise link

banx, what are your thoughts on how many kg of antibiotics are flushed down the toilet, through urine, feces and emptying pill bottles from BC residents in one year?

[Dave]

banx, please add to my argument all the antibiotic laden feces from beef, pork and poultry farms that is spread on virtually all the agricultural land in the Fraser Valley, and probably everywhere else farming is viable.

[banx]

that domestic disposal is far worse for sure. especially in scale..... but you have more control over an industry, especially a smaller sector one such as the farms compared to people at home..... however, you do see commercials now where you can bring in your old drugs to be disposed of properly.

this is american....."That calculation produced an estimate of at least 250 million pounds of annual drug waste from hospitals and long-term care centers, further complicated by the fact experts say drugs might account for only up to half of pharmaceutical waste, while the rest is packaging..........Few of the country's 5,700 hospitals and 45,000 long-term care homes keep data on the pharmaceutical waste they generate. Based on a small sample, though, the AP was able to project an annual national estimate of at least 250 million pounds of pharmaceuticals and contaminated packaging, with no way to separate out the drug volume."
http://hosted.ap.org/specials/interactives/pharmawater_site/sept14a.html

thats only hospitals etc... didn't include homes. 

I would think its safe to say that canada would use roughly 1/5?   I think its being generous... so 50,000,000 or so pounds

farm usuage is small obviously on scale, its less than 1%.... but I feel it's large in the grand scheme of things..... think about it, a handful of farms in BC deposit enough antibiotics into the ocean that we are measuring it in metric tonnes, annually.   and that in itself is large enough to be measured against an entire countries population of around 30,000,000 people.  handful vs 30 million.



http://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2014/aug/08/drugs-toilet-pharmaceutical-pollution
that was good.

water treatment helps take the 'edge off' so to speak and so does having the antibiotics metabolised....coming out a hole or hose.

[troutbreath]

http://bcdairy.ca/milk/articles/does-milk-contain-growth-hormones-and-antibiotics/

http://www.chickenfarmers.ca/what-matters-to-us/antibiotics/

http://www.spca.bc.ca/welfare/farm-animal-welfare/farm-animals/truth-about-antibiotic-free.html

In April 2014, Health Canada announced that use of medically-important antibiotics to improve growth or production of farm animals will be phased-out over the next three years (by 2017).

[shuswapsteve]

Need to make a little distinction here because some facts are getting missed.  Some farmers may give their livestock antibiotics as a means to prevent disease, enhance growth or whatever.  This is what Health Canada wants to phase out (i.e. the non-therapeutic use).  On the other hand, antibiotics used on BC fish farms are used to treat disease - not given as some preventive measure to healthy fish, not used to promote growth and not used to improve feed efficiency.  Secondly, antibiotics on BC fish farms are always prescribed by a veterinarian and are not given out frivolously.

Do I wish antibiotics were never used in any agricultural sector?  Sure.  Do I wish I never have to use antibiotics if I get sick?  Sure.  Do I enjoy my occasional A&W Papa Burger and cheese made with beef without antibiotics.  Sure...but on a side note, it is great that fast food restaurants are using beef without antibiotics, but their marketing game fizzles out when the real numbers and facts are brought in; like the fact that each 245 g A&W Papa Burger with cheese has 630 calories, 16 grams of saturated fat and 1150 grams of Sodium. Also, by law all farm animals in Canada, including farmed fish, must be free of antibiotic residues before they enter the human food system. 
 
With every decision there are trade-offs.  If agriculture as a whole didn't need antibiotics they probably would be happy not having to budget those in and spend the money elsewhere; however, it must be hard to raise animals to market size on a big scale if they are negatively impacted by a bacterial infection.  Obviously, there are farmers that don't use antibiotics and are certified as such which is great and all the power to them, but I don't think it comes about without a cost or some trade-off.

[Fisherbob]

Years of what?
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/blog/

[troutbreath]

Got the cadmium blues?

http://www.sfu.ca/grow/science/resources/1276881145.pdf

[Dave]

Interesting response tb  ; other than a deflection of the subject, what has this to do with BC and Washington state salmon farms?

[troutbreath]

banx, please add to my argument all the antibiotic laden feces from beef, pork and poultry farms that is spread on virtually all the agricultural land in the Fraser Valley, and probably everywhere else farming is viable.

What were you saying Dave   doh!